Implicating incubus → demon
Link to implication

Reason:

An incubus is type of demon, even says it in the wiki.

this and the succubus one should be aliases instead of implications.

1. there is literally no way to tell if a demon is an incubus/succubus or just. any random demon who is having sex
2. unnecessary gendered terms

+1 for alias.
These are impossible to tag without outside information.

Copyright-specific incubus/succubus should be tagged as *_(<copyright>) instead.

So.. succubus and incubus need to be aliased away -- probably to 'demon' because it's an unneedfully gendered tag.... I thought about sex_demon as a tag... but those normally have a degree of sex-vore involved with it by implication. This is e621, where most of the pictures are sexually-themed, so it'd basically become like it is now... a kitchen sink of assorted characters with only occasional implications of sex-vore.

BUt this got me thinking. We've got like 20K demon posts, but there's no real subcategorization. So I looked around and this is what I came up with:

This is in no way an argument that all of these should exist. I'm just looking and categorizing in my head.
Actually a lot of them can be found via combining words, but with over 20K demon posts, y'know... it might not be a bad idea.

SO! looking over demons, I think most demons could be categorized into a few groups:

I would like to reiterate, this is CATEGORIZATION of what I'm seeing, not SUGGESTIONS about what I think each tag should be.

I've separated the peas from the carrots. that does not mean I think that they should only be served separately. Just that they are different things. Peas and Carrots are fine.

Again. this is a visual separation of the art TRENDS I've noticed. not suggestions. It would be stupid if all of these existed as tags. I am mentioning these things so we can DISCUSS what good tags may or may not be.

okay. again, not all of those should exist.

• Redskinned and Humanoid are basically the same, but different colors. Unless redskinned becomes red-bodied, but then... well it becomes less 'a distinct thing' and more a replacement for two tags. I kinda like redskinned though, because it's so iconic. I"d keep both of these.
• Scaled/dragon/draconic are basically the same thing. Only one should exist probably.
• Ice demons and shadow demons are pretty rare--but maybe that's a good reason to tag them.
• There are a lot of skull-headed demons. they should probably be tagged.
• Imp is probably pretty dang subjective, and probably not a good tag.
• Regarding winged/horned demons, those are probably mostly useless, since you could search 'demon wings'... and horns as basically shorthand for 'demon'.
• Child demons are definitely probably a bit redundant, as young demon should turn up the same or similar results. not sure in ohis one.

soo... some posts will have multiple categories applicable to thiem... for example....

post #275903 is feral_demon, shadow_demon
post #1745023 is anthro_demon, feline_demon and shadow_demon

as a rough idea for implications...

• redskin MIGHT imply humanoid
• caprine/canine/feline all imply anthro_demon

IDK. I"m pretty tired. It's been a long week.

I personally feel like a lot of these distinctions are unnecessary and only complicate the tagging situation here further. Why canine_demon when canine demon does the trick?

Demon Humanoid is fine. Skull-headed, shadow, imp, maybe.

Child Demon definitely not. Winged, Horned, and Red-skinned Demon too.

I do support the Incubus/Succubus alias.

We do already have a canine demon tag, which we tag as hellhound.

I wouldn't mind a hellhound -> demon implication, personally

Oh, whoops. That's fine, yeah.

Opilione said:
I personally feel like a lot of these distinctions are unnecessary and only complicate the tagging situation here further.

what "complicate"? this part of the tag structure is basically untouched. succubus and incubus don't even imply demon. There's no complication here :P

Why canine_demon when canine demon does the trick?

Because there can be more than one character in a picture? say, a wolf boinking a demon?

I mean. Canid is the most populated species-type tag after 'mammal'. there are a lot of dog-things on the website, y'know?

Demon Humanoid is fine. Skull-headed, shadow, imp, maybe.

Child Demon definitely not. Winged, Horned, and Red-skinned Demon too.

As I said, this was my effort to go through demon-related tags and see what the artistic trends were. Y'know. It's like if I looked at domestic cats and saw that there are black cats, yellow ones, white ones, calico ones and these weird blotchy tortoiseshell-ish things. That doesn't mean that I want black_cat to be a tag. just that that's a thing artists draw a lot.

DiceLovesBeingBlown said:
We do already have a canine demon tag, which we tag as hellhound.

I wouldn't mind a hellhound -> demon implication, personally

oh gosh I didn't even get into that part, I was just looking at types and shapes of demons.

SnowWolf said:

oh gosh I didn't even get into that part, I was just looking at types and shapes of demons.

I figured as much! I just wanted to mention it cause I was sure that would be brought up. Perhaps a canine_demon => hellhound alias could work (or vice versa), and the tag gets a demon implication like the other*_demon tags.

My issue with canine_demon (and the issue that I still have with like, feline_demon) is that it's just combining two species tags, and we don't have tags for, say, a feline dragon, of which there are multiple. Hellhound is at least a bit more established.

hellfound 844
hell_hound 13
hellcat 20
hellfox 3
hell_corgi_(species) 2
fox_demon 72
desire_demon 54 (somehow different that a succ/incc i guess
crow_demon 49
demon_pony 34
taurus_demon 33 (dark souls?)
archdemon 17 (looks like barney the dinosaur's dragon cousin :P)

and there are a bunch others but this will do as a mental note right now.

Opilione said:
My issue with canine_demon (and the issue that I still have with like, feline_demon) is that it's just combining two species tags, and we don't have tags for, say, a feline dragon, of which there are multiple. Hellhound is at least a bit more established.

I mean, it is but it isn't?

we have wolf, but it looks like this:

• mammal
• canine
• wolf
• eurasian_wolf
• arabian_wolf
• iberian_wolf
• mexican_wolf
• japanese_wolf
• alaskan_tundra_wolf
• italian_wolf
• tundra_wolf
• arctic_wolf
• eastern_wolf
• red_wolf
• mississippi_valley_wolf
• florida_black_wolf

werewolf implies werecanine implies werecanid implies were.

I"m not looking for demon_fox and demon_coyote or anything... but canine_demon doesn't seem like much of a stretch... it's a sub-species of demon, just like the arctic_wolf is a subspecies of wolf :p

and once we do that, canine_demon can imply demon and canine and everything will be better tagged. :P

I was gonna say more but given that the caprine_demon tag already exists it's pointless. felid_demon would be better, and canine_demon can be aliases to Hellhound, I guess.

I do think that Baphomet_(Species) should be aliased to caprine_demon, also.

Opilione said:
I was gonna say more but given that the caprine_demon tag already exists it's pointless. felid_demon would be better, and canine_demon can be aliases to Hellhound, I guess.

I do think that Baphomet_(Species) should be aliased to caprine_demon, also.

I went with what I did because it can be used to describe a certain style of caprine demon instead of just all of them, similar to how a satyr is often a style of (caprine or equine) animal humanoid.

That's fair. My own concern was just that it seems the vast majority of caprine demons fall under that.

Ok, so while I do not want to seem like I disagree with this thread, I have to ask: what about the Warcraft Succubi? Should they keep their name and just receive a suffix, or should they also be changed accordingly?

post #102923
wiki link

Siral_Exan said:
Ok, so while I do not want to seem like I disagree with this thread, I have to ask: what about the Warcraft Succubi? Should they keep their name and just receive a suffix, or should they also be changed accordingly?

post #102923
wiki link

Genjar said:
Copyright-specific incubus/succubus should be tagged as *_(<copyright>) instead.

Ruikuli said:

Huh. Don't know how I missed that. :|

Siral_Exan said:
Huh. Don't know how I missed that. :|

You were reasonably distracted ;)

Since this has turned into a demon tag discussion, should more copyright-specific demons imply the main demon tag? Say, for example, the (majority of) the Doom demons (not, like, a Revenant, Arachnotron, or the Spider Mastermind). In Doom's case, most of the demonic enemies are clearly demons.

Opilione said:
Since this has turned into a demon tag discussion, should more copyright-specific demons imply the main demon tag? Say, for example, the (majority of) the Doom demons (not, like, a Revenant, Arachnotron, or the Spider Mastermind). In Doom's case, most of the demonic enemies are clearly demons.

Not demon, I don't think, because ... this, for example, doesn't quite look like a demon:

post #1768300

But maybe...

OTOH, all of the doom demons SHOULD imply doom or whatever our doom game tag is. Only a ouple do right now

SnowWolf said:

Thumbnails	potential tag	appearance
post #1771189 post #1388253 post #1777448	red-skinned demon	typically human-shaped, with bright red skin. Commonly has horns, may have wings and a tail as well.

This is basically the standard cartoon devil. I don't think calling it "red-skinned_demon" would work that well since I can see the possibility of furry, feathery, and scaly characters in that style without any red skin showing. Furthermore, what of characters clearly intended to be classic devils but are shown uncolored, in black_and_white, or in some other color? I should think some variant of "classic_devil" would be best for characters in the style of evil, horned humanoid/furry usually having red skin and often having membranous wings and spade tails. A likely example of this sort of demon would be shoulder devils.

I don’t like the idea of the tags “canine_demon” and “feline_demon” I feel like they are useless and redundent.

SnowWolf said:
Because there can be more than one character in a picture? say, a wolf boinking a demon?

You could search canine demon solo and maybe even canine demon hybrid to avoid results like that.

I just don’t like the precedent it sets with just making a new species tag for every animal demon.

As for “dragon_demon” I feel like it is too hard to tell when a picture is of just a dragon or a draconic demon. In the examples you used:
post #1616423 post #1615896
I feel like both posts could have just been tagged as dragon and nobody would have batted an eye. There isn’t really anything screaming demon about them. Horns? Wings? Dragons have those too. I can see a “dragon_demon” tag being a mess.

*closes eyes for a moment*

I picked some random words to describe the essence of what I was seeing. I was not advocating that that should be a tag, just that it had the potential to be a tag. If we wanted it to be and thought it was a good idea. as a group.

Clawstripe said:
This is basically the standard cartoon devil. I don't think calling it "red-skinned_demon" would work that well since I can see the possibility of furry, feathery, and scaly characters in that style without any red skin showing. Furthermore, what of characters clearly intended to be classic devils but are shown uncolored, in black_and_white, or in some other color? I should think some variant of "classic_devil" would be best for characters in the style of evil, horned humanoid/furry usually having red skin and often having membranous wings and spade tails. A likely example of this sort of demon would be shoulder devils.

Well... the horns, wings and tail were all variable. while most of them had horns, it wasn't 100%. The biggest commonality with this classification was red skin. Thus ***if*** we were to make a tag on that idea, that would be the idea I'd orient around.

That said, the concept of the classic devil is an interesting one, though in my mind, they also tend to come with goat-legs and a pitchfork. So... it's not a universal concept, I think. (also, ironically, of the 6 shoulder devil posts, only one matches up with that description, haha.)

I did think about the idea being "red themed characters" but it felt like at that point, it diluted a whole lot. Each character design varied a lot at that point, whereas humanoid, red-skin, probably horns, maybe wings and spade-tail was a pretty consistant reoccuring theme.

Ultimately, though, it is basically the red version of a humanoid-human shaped demon.

SharkFetish said:
I don’t like the idea of the tags “canine_demon” and “feline_demon” I feel like they are useless and redundent.

You could search canine demon solo and maybe even canine demon hybrid to avoid results like that.

Yes, but that doesn't help if I wanna see that canine demon being fucked :p

I *know* you can combine tags to search for things. This isn't exactly my first rodeo, y'know?

I also know that most users only have a very limited number of tags they can search and that having to search for canine demon takes up 2 of them.

I just don’t like the precedent it sets with just making a new species tag for every animal demon.

I picked the species I did because they're the most popular species that I saw within the demon search. c_c I spent several hours looking at these posts, not throwing darts at a dart board :P

As for opening the door for other species_demon tags, well, yes, but also no?

Currently on the website: goat_demon, caprine_demon, fox_demon, desire_demon, crow_demon, demon_pony, taurus_demon, sheep_demon, half_demon, half-demon, demon_dog, cat_demon, demonbatcat, catbatdemoncat, centipede_demon, rifle_demon, infernal_demon spectre_demon, devildog, hellhound, hellcat, hell_hound, hellfox, hell_corgi .... fire_ferrect, firebunny, fire_wolf, firedrake, fire_imp, fire_lizard, imp, arch_imp, impling imp....

They're already there. If anything, the general plan here is to try and eliminate the majority of these random tags.

Also, there's not a limited number of tags. You don't use up tags. you can always have more tags. We don't need to get rid of tags to have room for more, y'know?

plus, if you establish a precedent, there are rules to follow and it's easier for other posts to follow those rules.

As for “dragon_demon” I feel like it is too hard to tell when a picture is of just a dragon or a draconic demon. In the examples you used:
post #1616423 post #1615896
I feel like both posts could have just been tagged as dragon and nobody would have batted an eye. There isn’t really anything screaming demon about them. Horns? Wings? Dragons have those too. I can see a “dragon_demon” tag being a mess.

That's actually a trouble with a lot of demon posts. there are a lot of characters that are basically "a goat, who appears to be smiling meanly"

For the dragons I picked, the first one is dark and shadowy with very ominous light. she is intended to look discomforting. The second one is red, carying a pitchform as has a pronouced spade tail. Plus, both were already tagged as demon when I found them. Those would turn up if you searched Demon dragon

Just like these do:

post #1764033 post #1751384 post #1741218 post #1660051

The demon tag is a pretty disappointing place, honestly.

ANyway, it seems pretty clear to me that no one's particularly interested in this as no one's said "what a great idea, I love it" and only talked about why they don't like stuff.... sooo.. I'm not gonna keep fighting over this hill. I have other projects I could be doing, and 20,000 demon posts is too many SnowWolf-hours where I could be working on something that makes me money :p

What do we do about demons that don't look like a stereotypical demon? Depending on the source material, a demon can look like absolutely anything.

BlueDingo said:
What do we do about demons that don't look like a stereotypical demon? Depending on the source material, a demon can look like absolutely anything.

Since we go by TWYS, even if we're sometimes more lenient with species, if it doesn't look vaguely demonic it shouldn't be tagged as demonic

Really a lot of the demon tag is a mistagged mess of characters not even vaguely demon-like, and that's a mess that'll take a while to clean up

BlueDingo said:
What do we do about demons that don't look like a stereotypical demon? Depending on the source material, a demon can look like absolutely anything.

In my fantasy land, going through 'demon' involved untagging most of the characters who's only demonish trait was a mean expression

I've already untagged several draenei that were tagged demon.... several oni were tagged demon.. which is not really what oni are...and they don't really look like oni, most of the time. There's this one character who's a wolf, but has these tiny, like, one or two inch long goat horns and has some sort of tail that has eyes in it. and there are sooooooo

sooooo
sooooooooooooo
sooooooooooooooooo

many characters which are basically "they have a mean face!" or "they're big!" .... or worse. "The character owner/lore says that he's a demon." (post #1526891 c_c )