alicorn -> horned_pterippus

figured it would make sense to realign with the new tag for Pterippus. I would of added a proper entry but the tags in question are mostly already aliased away without forum entry.

Isn't a pterippus already winged?

Alicorn is already aliased to winged_unicorn, so it looks right, unless something's changed?

Searching the tags page for *unicorn* and *pterippus* doesn't seem to give any new tags that would fit winged_pterippus either.
I thought there might be a new combination of pterippus and unicorn, to replace winged_unicorn, that you meant to alias alicorn to instead, but it doesn't look like it from those searches.

Pupslut said:
Isn't a pterippus already winged?

Alicorn is already aliased to winged_unicorn, so it looks right, unless something's changed?

Searching the tags page for *unicorn* and *pterippus* doesn't seem to give any new tags that would fit winged_pterippus either.
I thought there might be a new combination of pterippus and unicorn, to replace winged_unicorn, that you meant to alias alicorn to instead, but it doesn't look like it from those searches.

brain fart horned_pterippus than, all these different words got jumbled in my head I guess

Versperus said:
brain fart horned_pterippus than, all these different words got jumbled in my head I guess

Ah, ok.

When was that made a tag? As far as I can tell nothing's currently tagged as a horned_pterippus

And it'd have come up in the earlier searches I posted..
I feel like I've completely missed something, or was it a discord thing?

Pupslut said:
Ah, ok.

When was that made a tag? As far as I can tell nothing's currently tagged as a horned_pterippus

And it'd have come up in the earlier searches I posted..
I feel like I've completely missed something, or was it a discord thing?

as alicorn and winged_unicorn already have aliases attached to them it locks them out of the forum alias suggestion

Versperus said:
as alicorn and winged_unicorn already have aliases attached to them it locks them out of the forum alias suggestion

Sorry, I'm a dumb. With you saying "the new tag for Pterippus" I thought you meant that winged_unicorn had already been changed to horned_pterippus, and you were just suggesting it for alicorn as well.

I guess it still leaves me asking about "what new tag?" As, as far as I'm aware, nothing's changed with pterippus/pegasus/unicorn/winged_unicorn.

Apologies if I'm completely missing something.

Pupslut said:
Sorry, I'm a dumb. With you saying "the new tag for Pterippus" I thought you meant that winged_unicorn had already been changed to horned_pterippus, and you were just suggesting it for alicorn as well.

I guess it still leaves me asking about "what new tag?" As, as far as I'm aware, nothing's changed with pterippus/pegasus/unicorn/winged_unicorn.

Apologies if I'm completely missing something.

pterippus is a fairly new tag, and my alias suggestion is intended to make winged_unicorn match that. Granted the more I talk about this I'm pretty sure that it's a 50/50 if it's winged_unciorn or horned_pterippus and the whole thing doesn't matter either way.

Versperus said:
pterippus is a fairly new tag, and my alias suggestion is intended to make winged_unicorn match that. Granted the more I talk about this I'm pretty sure that it's a 50/50 if it's winged_unciorn or horned_pterippus and the whole thing doesn't matter either way.

Ah, I just checked, I didn't realise it was so recent, created in March.

I feel it's pointless making a thread for it, but it'd be useful to change the date format from 03/04/2019 to 2019-03-04. I wasn't sure if it was British or American format, but that way it'd be obvious for everyone. Or make it like the dates for when posts are created, where it says a "May 19" when you hover over it.

Should I make a thread? I just feel it's something that would be awkward to change, and therefore not get changed.

Pupslut said:
Ah, I just checked, I didn't realise it was so recent, created in March.

I feel it's pointless making a thread for it, but it'd be useful to change the date format from 03/04/2019 to 2019-03-04. I wasn't sure if it was British or American format, but that way it'd be obvious for everyone. Or make it like the dates for when posts are created, where it says a "May 19" when you hover over it.

Should I make a thread? I just feel it's something that would be awkward to change, and therefore not get changed.

It might be americas because it's standard here. It would also make sense seeing how e621 is hosted from somewhere in the states.

Versperus said:
It might be americas because it's standard here. It would also make sense seeing how e621 is hosted from somewhere in the states.

Oh, it's definitely America's version, above it was ?/27/2019, so the month has to be first.

I just thought, since everywhere else seems to have a non-confusing date format, that should as well.

'horned_pterippus'
I get the pegasus thing, but now you're just trying to sound fancy.

MyNameIsOver20charac said:
'horned_pterippus'
I get the pegasus thing, but now you're just trying to sound fancy.

yes.

When did this site become uppity and snooty and anti-common words? You're making a problem out of something that could have, and should have, been left alone.

PheagleAdler said:
When did this site become uppity and snooty and anti-common words? You're making a problem out of something that could have, and should have, been left alone.

Surely it doesn't matter too much either way? If it's aliased then you can search for either and get the same result. i.e, you can search for winged_unicorn and you'll get all the posts tagged with horned_pterippus, and the same for when uploading/tagging things.

PheagleAdler said:
When did this site become uppity and snooty and anti-common words?

when we revamped the species system. based on how many times people have told you this, you should know this already.

hiekkapillu said:
when we revamped the species system. based on how many times people have told you this, you should know this already.

That doesn't give me a reason and quite frankly I think this is change just for the sake of change.

PheagleAdler said:
quite frankly I think this is change just for the sake of change.

Anyone can suggest a change. That does not mean the change will be applied.

I am pretty sure this one is a hard no.

PheagleAdler said:
When did this site become uppity and snooty and anti-common words? You're making a problem out of something that could have, and should have, been left alone.

I'm going to pretend we haven't already had this conversation for the moment. (On which note, we are still considering the kangaroo issues-- however, the two people who are most involved with such things have been extremely busy recently.)

I wish you could stop looking at this from the perspective of "you're trying to make this harder for me to use this website by taking away my common words" and instead try to look at the big picture here.

Look... we learn words as kids. Like "bear" or "deer" and these words refer to a big group of animals.

"Deer," taxonomically, cover everything from elk to caribou, to moose, to white tailed deer, to pudú, (which are about as big as a house cat). "Deer" is as broad a family as "Feline" ... covering house cats AND tigers alike.

But, as you say, common words: I'm american. When I say "deer" I don't mean Moose, Elk or Caribou. I'm referring to either the Mule Deer, or the white tailed deer. If I'm in the eastern US, I probably mean White Tailed deer, since the Mule Deer is pretty exclusively a western-US (and Canada and Mexico) animal

However, if I was in Europe, a "deer" might a red deer. Or a roe deer. or a fallow deer. (fun fact, Bambi was originally a Roe deer, but when the movie was made in North America, he was changed to be a mule deer)

So, "deer" alone is kind of a vague word that's hard to manage when we're talking about people around the world tagging animals. There is no one animal called "deer".

Deer is like "dog" -- i could be talking about a chihuahua, but maybe I mean a great dane. We should be more specific. White tailed deer. Red Deer. Fallow Deer. This is a place where being more specific doesn't hurt.

Deer doesn't exist on our site. It aliases to Cervid.

But let's look a little closer.

I want White-tailed deer. white-tailed_deer is a tag. you can search for that. Any post with white-tailed_deer also recieves the capreoline tag. Why? what's a capreoline?

capreoline is the white tailed deer and it's CLOSEST RELATIVES. capreoline is "New World deer". So it's one branch of the deer family tree. We also have branches for the old world deer (Y'know, the roe deer and the fallow deer and whatnot) as well as a branch for the waterdeer (those are the little deer with fangs you've probably seen pictures of)

All of those branches imply cervid.

But snow, you ask, why not just... put the fallow deer and the white tailed deer together under "deer"?

Well, where the heck do you draw the line? The North American Elk looks pretty deer like. Or a reindeer (at least until their antlers start being a bit extra ) .. ww can probably agree that a moose is not a deer.... (but did you know that in parts of Europe, they call Moose elk instead?)

BUt where else? these guys are not called deer... they're Rusa or Sambars... but they look pretty deerish to me. The Marsh Deer is pretty deer-like but the gray brocket -- his close relation... probably doesn't? but the red brocket who's down an entirely different branch of the tree, kinda does? Oh wait. Brocket is just the word used for some members of the deer family in South America...

It's... complicated.

And subjective and judgmental.

we could jsut say "anything with the name deer in some of their names" (for example, the Taruca which is also called the north Andean deer.... but that name was probably given to them by some british naturalist who was discovering a whole new species of animal, here, living along side the people of the Andes for thousands of generations. :P

So rather than let *us* determine who is or isn't deer enough to be called deer... we went for the safest, most consistent system we have: Actual taxonomy.

The Taruca is part of the Rangiferini group, which is part of the Capreolinae branch of the Cervid tree.

Want to see more kinda like what you're already looking at? find the next smallest species tag.

? taruca 1
? capreoline 4994
? cervid 22180
? mammal 1234188

man, I should have done all this with Pelicans instead. it'd be easier.

? brown pelican 7
? pelican 63
? pelecaniform 251
? avian 62917
? bird 44046

brown pelican is a specific pelican.
a pelicaniform is a group of birds that include some animals like shoebills and herons and spoonbills. Full of that big-beak energy.

You want birds with big beaks and throats? Pelicaniform. seriously: pelecaniform -animal_humanoid There ya go.

That's the idea with all this.

Does it mean that you have to learn a few new words if you like deer and deer-accessories?

Yes.

But why is that a bad thing?

In conclusion:

post #1714768

SnowWolf said:
Anyone can suggest a change. That does not mean the change will be applied.

I am pretty sure this one is a hard no.

I'm going to pretend we haven't already had this conversation for the moment. (On which note, we are still considering the kangaroo issues-- however, the two people who are most involved with such things have been extremely busy recently.)

I wish you could stop looking at this from the perspective of "you're trying to make this harder for me to use this website by taking away my common words" and instead try to look at the big picture here.

Look... we learn words as kids. Like "bear" or "deer" and these words refer to a big group of animals.

"Deer," taxonomically, cover everything from elk to caribou, to moose, to white tailed deer, to pudú, (which are about as big as a house cat). "Deer" is as broad a family as "Feline" ... covering house cats AND tigers alike.

But, as you say, common words: I'm american. When I say "deer" I don't mean Moose, Elk or Caribou. I'm referring to either the Mule Deer, or the white tailed deer. If I'm in the eastern US, I probably mean White Tailed deer, since the Mule Deer is pretty exclusively a western-US (and Canada and Mexico) animal

However, if I was in Europe, a "deer" might a red deer. Or a roe deer. or a fallow deer. (fun fact, Bambi was originally a Roe deer, but when the movie was made in North America, he was changed to be a mule deer)

So, "deer" alone is kind of a vague word that's hard to manage when we're talking about people around the world tagging animals. There is no one animal called "deer".

Deer is like "dog" -- i could be talking about a chihuahua, but maybe I mean a great dane. We should be more specific. White tailed deer. Red Deer. Fallow Deer. This is a place where being more specific doesn't hurt.

Deer doesn't exist on our site. It aliases to Cervid.

But let's look a little closer.

I want White-tailed deer. white-tailed_deer is a tag. you can search for that. Any post with white-tailed_deer also recieves the capreoline tag. Why? what's a capreoline?

capreoline is the white tailed deer and it's CLOSEST RELATIVES. capreoline is "New World deer". So it's one branch of the deer family tree. We also have branches for the old world deer (Y'know, the roe deer and the fallow deer and whatnot) as well as a branch for the waterdeer (those are the little deer with fangs you've probably seen pictures of)

All of those branches imply cervid.

But snow, you ask, why not just... put the fallow deer and the white tailed deer together under "deer"?

Well, where the heck do you draw the line? The North American Elk looks pretty deer like. Or a reindeer (at least until their antlers start being a bit extra ) .. ww can probably agree that a moose is not a deer.... (but did you know that in parts of Europe, they call Moose elk instead?)

BUt where else? these guys are not called deer... they're Rusa or Sambars... but they look pretty deerish to me. The Marsh Deer is pretty deer-like but the gray brocket -- his close relation... probably doesn't? but the red brocket who's down an entirely different branch of the tree, kinda does? Oh wait. Brocket is just the word used for some members of the deer family in South America...

It's... complicated.

And subjective and judgmental.

we could jsut say "anything with the name deer in some of their names" (for example, the Taruca which is also called the north Andean deer.... but that name was probably given to them by some british naturalist who was discovering a whole new species of animal, here, living along side the people of the Andes for thousands of generations. :P

So rather than let *us* determine who is or isn't deer enough to be called deer... we went for the safest, most consistent system we have: Actual taxonomy.

The Taruca is part of the Rangiferini group, which is part of the Capreolinae branch of the Cervid tree.

Want to see more kinda like what you're already looking at? find the next smallest species tag.

? taruca 1
? capreoline 4994
? cervid 22180
? mammal 1234188

man, I should have done all this with Pelicans instead. it'd be easier.

? brown pelican 7
? pelican 63
? pelecaniform 251
? avian 62917
? bird 44046

brown pelican is a specific pelican.
a pelicaniform is a group of birds that include some animals like shoebills and herons and spoonbills. Full of that big-beak energy.

You want birds with big beaks and throats? Pelicaniform. seriously: pelecaniform -animal_humanoid There ya go.

That's the idea with all this.

Does it mean that you have to learn a few new words if you like deer and deer-accessories?

Yes.

But why is that a bad thing?

In conclusion:

post #1714768

I mean, I sorta get where you're coming from, but when you start getting into unfamiliar words it makes less sense to me to go that far.

I think specifics like eagle to bald eagle makes sense. Eagle to haliaeetus leucocephalus (while I am familiar with my own species names) can be more confusing.

PheagleAdler said:
I mean, I sorta get where you're coming from, but when you start getting into unfamiliar words it makes less sense to me to go that far.

I think specifics like eagle to bald eagle makes sense. Eagle to haliaeetus leucocephalus (while I am familiar with my own species names) can be more confusing.

In this case...

it's Bald Eagle to Sea_eagle (Because haliaeetus and haliaeetinae are a mouthful and change) ... which implies eagle, which implies accipitrid (which includes a number of hawks, but hawks are another mess-of-a-word) which implies accipitriform which implies bird.

i'ts pretyt neat to look at the wikis for these less familiar words: accipitrid for example, is implied by harris's_hawk, true_hawk, goshawk, perninae, chickenhawk, buteo, eagle, and old_world_vulture

while accipitriform includes vultures, ospreys and secretary birds specifically.

You can get a whole slew of bird in the right neighborhood that way, maybe find some new favorites. (Secretary birrrrrrds!)

anyway.

The word is unfamiliar because you're not familiar with it. Why not get familiar? learning is great! and even then, we've got an extensive wiki to help out if needed. :)

-1

The fewer confusions for the user, the better. Pterripus is one thing, perhaps a bit over-pedantic, but acceptable, considering pegasus isn't the only flappy horse out there. (If you think about it, Harry Potter's thestrals would qualify as pterripi more so than as "pegasi".) It's still going to be a confusion to the average user. Even Versperus got caught by it originally.

However, "horned pterripus" basically inverts the user's expectations. They're looking for flappy unicorns, not flappy horses wearing horns. If anything, I'd argue that winged unicorn is the unicorrn equivalent of pterripus rather than a subset of.

Personally, I'd leave pterripus as it is rather than try to cram it into other tags, same as we use cervid as a catch-all for deer and related species without trying to cram it into "red cervid" or "Angora cervid".