Greetings!

As the subject says this is the announcement that we will be changing the tags dickgirl and cuntboy to less vulgar terms. The new terms will be gynomorph for dickgirl and andromorph for cuntboy respectively. This change will be performed for all existing aliases and implications, and all currently existing aliases and implications will continue to work as they already do. They'll just display the new terms.

The old terms will also not be invalidated, whether you search for dickgirl or gynomroph will make no difference, they will return the same search results.

The current plan is to implement this on Tuesday, starting from 01:00AM PDT / 02:00AM MDT / 03:00AM CDT / 04:00AM EDT.

I expect it'll take about 2-3 hours until everything has been transferred and the aliases and implications have fully populated.

NotMeNotYou said:
Greetings!

As the subject says this is the announcement that we will be changing the tags dickgirl and cuntboy to less vulgar terms. The new terms will be gynomorph for dickgirl and andromorph for cuntboy respectively. This change will be performed for all existing aliases and implications, and all currently existing aliases and implications will continue to work as they already do. They'll just display the new terms.

The old terms will also not be invalidated, whether you search for dickgirl or gynomroph will make no difference, they will return the same search results.

The current plan is to implement this on Tuesday, starting from 01:00AM PDT / 02:00AM MDT / 03:00AM CDT / 04:00AM EDT.

I expect it'll take about 2-3 hours until everything has been transferred and the aliases and implications have fully populated.

That's a great idea and will hopefully cause most of the bickering over gender tag names to cease!

It finally happened, we caved to the changed a tag that wasn't inherently offensive because too many people complained.

Lot of tag changes lately. Has there been a change in management? These tags have worked perfectly for years, suddenly everything's getting a new coat of paint, not that it's any surprise of course.

NotMeNotYou said:
Greetings!

As the subject says this is the announcement that we will be changing the tags dickgirl and cuntboy to less vulgar terms. The new terms will be gynomorph for dickgirl and andromorph for cuntboy respectively. This change will be performed for all existing aliases and implications, and all currently existing aliases and implications will continue to work as they already do. They'll just display the new terms.

The old terms will also not be invalidated, whether you search for dickgirl or gynomroph will make no difference, they will return the same search results.

The current plan is to implement this on Tuesday, starting from 01:00AM PDT / 02:00AM MDT / 03:00AM CDT / 04:00AM EDT.

I expect it'll take about 2-3 hours until everything has been transferred and the aliases and implications have fully populated.

why?

FurryMcFuzzball said:
It finally happened, we caved to the changed a tag that wasn't inherently offensive because too many people complained.

Lot of tag changes lately. Has there been a change in management? These tags have worked perfectly for years, suddenly everything's getting a new coat of paint, not that it's any surprise of course.

There hasn't been a change in management, and the tags will still work exactly the same, as stated. This site actually used to have a lot more joke tags than it does now, so this change is not going to be that big of a deal, nothing to really worry about.

neo4812 said:
why?

In the quest to categorize or content as accurately/nonsubjectively as possible?

Maybe for a similar reason that we did away with gay/lesbian and switched to the gender/gender format we use today.

FurryMcFuzzball said:
It finally happened, we caved to the changed a tag that wasn't inherently offensive because too many people complained.

Lot of tag changes lately. Has there been a change in management? These tags have worked perfectly for years, suddenly everything's getting a new coat of paint, not that it's any surprise of course.

As the page grows things have to become more standardized to continue working. Specifically with species tags the issues were that things simply weren't standardized and instead were jury rigged together by multiple people over multiple years. Now it's all done by the same standard.

As for this change, being nice to people isn't caving in. The terms have been vulgar, and we're simply changing them because of that. You'll have to decide for yourself if that's a bad thing or not, personally I don't think it's bad.

FurryMcFuzzball said:
It finally happened, we caved to the changed a tag that wasn't inherently offensive because too many people complained.

Lot of tag changes lately. Has there been a change in management? These tags have worked perfectly for years, suddenly everything's getting a new coat of paint, not that it's any surprise of course.

It's been a long time coming, and in fact a lot of mods themselves have wanted this change as well. It's a change that both mods and many users have been wanting.

NotMeNotYou said:
As the subject says this is the announcement that we will be changing the tags dickgirl and cuntboy to less vulgar terms.

Great to hear! The old terms didn't bother me but I feel the less vulgar terms would be better regardless.
As far as I'm aware the biggest stumbling block has just been deciding what to change them to, so I'm glad you found those ones.

NotMeNotYou said:
The current plan is to implement this on Tuesday, starting from 01:00AM PDT / 02:00AM MDT / 03:00AM CDT / 04:00AM EDT.

Also 8am UTC, I figured people know their timezone distance from from UTC, but listing only American times means they have to convert it to UTC then to their timezone.

NotMeNotYou said:
I expect it'll take about 2-3 hours until everything has been transferred and the aliases and implications have fully populated.

I honestly expected it to take longer, so I'm glad it's actually quicker than expected.

Finally... I have been waiting for this for so long.

I don't see how this could be seen a negative change. The ones offended by the terms will be happy, and the people who are against the change can still use the terms they prefer thanks to the old terms being aliased/merged or whatever to the new handles. It's a win-no loss situation.

FurryMcFuzzball said:
It finally happened, we caved to the changed a tag that wasn't inherently offensive because too many people complained.

Lot of tag changes lately. Has there been a change in management? These tags have worked perfectly for years, suddenly everything's getting a new coat of paint, not that it's any surprise of course.

Oh boy, the first comment about that we have given up!

As this is alias and we are not changing the way posts are tagged, TWYS is and stays in full effect, this should on paper effect nobody negatively. So I do not see this as "caving in" but continuing changes that has happened for years already, starting from gay -> male/male and female/female, but you can still search with gay. We don't use the n-word either, but instead dark_skin.

Dice has been active on cleaning up species tags with help of Ratte so much so that they did become admin while doing that, so that's what has been happening lately.

Peekaboo said:
I don't see how this could be seen a negative change. The ones offended by the terms will be happy, and the people who are against the change can still use the terms they prefer thanks to the old terms being aliased/merged or whatever to the new handles. It's a win-no loss situation.

"I see this as an absolute win!"

Mairo said:
Oh boy, the first comment about that we have given up!

As this is alias and we are not changing the way posts are tagged, TWYS is and stays in full effect, this should on paper effect nobody negatively. So I do not see this as "caving in" but continuing changes that has happened for years already, starting from gay -> male/male and female/female, but you can still search with gay. We don't use the n-word either, but instead dark_skin.

Dice has been active on cleaning up species tags with help of Ratte so much so that they did become admin while doing that, so that's what has been happening lately.

I'm not saying the change itself is bad, just that it really wasn't needed. /maybe/ the term cuntboy could have been seen as offensive because of the word cunt, but dickgirl was as objectively close to to it's meaning as possible- a feminine character with boobs and a penis

it's the whole spirit of TWYS, now the terms are just replaced with something that sounds weird. if it wasn't for the site wiki, nobody would know how to use it, and newer users might not know what it means for a while

FurryMcFuzzball said:
I'm not saying the change itself is bad, just that it really wasn't needed. /maybe/ the term cuntboy could have been seen as offensive because of the word cunt, but dickgirl was as objectively close to to it's meaning as possible- a feminine character with boobs and a penis

it's the whole spirit of TWYS, now the terms are just replaced with something that sounds weird. if it wasn't for the site wiki, nobody would know how to use it, and newer users might not know what it means for a while

That's just it though, people can still use the old terms when tagging. You could keep on using this site and never have to look up these things using the new terms. A user wants dickgirl posts, so they just search "dickgirl", and they will get what they are looking for.

For a majority of users I imagine this will work out fine, especially for those that just browse. Those that actively tag and decide that they absolutely have to type in the new tags instead of just using the old ones will probably be the only ones affected by the change, and that confusion will only be temporary.

FurryMcFuzzball said:

if it wasn't for the site wiki, nobody would know how to use it, and newer users might not know what it means for a while

that's why aliases are so great! If you don't care for the new terms you don't have to use them; search for dickgirl and you'll still get dickgirls, or gynomorphs for those of you who like that term better. the only time when you have to understand the new terms is if you're trying to use the tags to understand what's going on in a post, in which case the wiki is needed.

Edit: ninja'd

MyNameIsOver20charac said:
that's why aliases are so great! If you don't care for the new terms you don't have to use them; search for dickgirl and you'll still get dickgirls, or gynomorphs for those of you who like that term better. the only time when you have to understand the new terms is if you're trying to use the tags to understand what's going on in a post, in which case the wiki is needed.

Exactly.

Hard to remain straight faced about vulgarity issues when this is an archived site for mostly porn... :P

Daedius said:
Hard to remain straight faced about vulgarity issues when this is an archived site for mostly porn... :P

There's still many characters on here that represent people, so I can definitely see why they would prefer less vulgar terms.

Oh thank you this is great, its was actually really making some artist uncomfortable and they were asking for alternative tags that didn't have slur connotations. And lmao at the babies offended by this change.

Thank you very much for this big change! I'm glad that it won't change the search system at all so that anyone who wants to use the old tags to search will find what they want.

I know it's been a big discussion for a long time. This seems like a great win/win solution, since the older terms are still valid but just not visible.

An interesting choice for the alternative terms.
So glad I can remove my conditional DNP on my work.

Trans folks' characters being tagged with slurs was an absolute no-go. These terms are much more neutral. That said, I'll wait a bit to see how the trans community feels about the new terms before doing so.
But, regardless, thank you. This is a huge step in a more inclusive and positive direction.

Posting for the first time ever to say thank you for this.

Still not great terms, since characters previously defined under "dickgirl" are intersex or considered female with a penis, however "gynomorph" is defined as a male with female features, more fitting to alias "trap" or "femboy" to.

Sharkiiie said:
Still not great terms, since characters previously defined under "dickgirl" are intersex or considered female with a penis, however "gynomorph" is defined as a male with female features, more fitting to alias "trap" or "femboy" to.

trap is a disambiguated tag due to its wide amount of uses and femboy is aliased to girly

I must say i always enjoy it when furries use language like " we're trying to make b l a n k less vulgar", it's very personally funny.
Don't get me wrong BTW, I fully understand the decision, as people have said right here this will take a good amount of people off the DNP list and even if not (because most are petty) one good artist off the list is worth it.

Anyhow, the reason for me writing this is to thank you guys for keeping the OG tags in the background, keeping this completely non-political because it's not, there's no way I will remember the new terms so I appreciate you not nuking the terms.

I'mNotMe said:
I must say i always enjoy it when furries use language like " we're trying to make b l a n k less vulgar", it's very personally funny.
Don't get me wrong BTW, I fully understand the decision, as people have said right here this will take a good amount of people off the DNP list and even if not (because most are petty) one good artist off the list is worth it.

Anyhow, the reason for me writing this is to thank you guys for keeping the OG tags in the background, keeping this completely non-political because it's not, there's no way I will remember the new terms so I appreciate you not nuking the terms.

a little bit of info to go with this, when names change for tags the tags aren't removed from the system. they are just... I guess translated for lack of me thinking of a better word into other tags. Kind of like how you can search one of an artists name, and they are all connected to a single name.

Versperus said:
trap is a disambiguated tag due to its wide amount of uses and femboy is aliased to girly

I'm aware of that, not suggesting that that change should be made. Just saying I don't think the new tags fit very well.

tbh i wanted to use them a lot, but i get more used to use the dickgirl and cuntboy tags, is like shemale, intersex, etc.

the idea is great and i love it, but it will take a bit or longer to get used to the new terms, will be for the best, bcuz we already use "scientific" or "methodic" terms already for other tags, like animals, ways to walk and so on so forth.

just to catch up, these are the biological terms, not commonly known, as we can use them still to reffer to dickgirls and cuntboys as always, but this is to add to our knowledge.

Typing the word "dickgirl" has been etched pretty hard into my muscle memory. Will the old tags still return results?

Bali said:
Typing the word "dickgirl" has been etched pretty hard into my muscle memory. Will the old tags still return results?

Yes, that's how aliases work. Basically all terms will lead back to the same search. This is why searching the tag "dog" redirects you to the tag "domestic_dog". The old tags will just redirect you to the renamed tags

to literally all of you complaining that there is a change happening at all:

Intersex covers non-trans instances (and TWYS is bullshit because of that)
Even the terms here are STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE (is it THAT fucking hard to say trans? seriously?)
Yes this DOES need to happen, these terms are slurs used mostly in a negative connotation towards people. No, the word doesn't care if you don't think or feel like you use it as a slur; it IS one. end. of. discussion.

also to anyone defending the Trap tag
fuck you.

Yeah I'm coming off as aggressive here
but y'know what? when you're transgender
and literally no one cares to maybe listen to the group of people these terms will effect the most? that's fucking infuriating.

vaelophis_nyx said:
to literally all of you complaining that there is a change happening at all:

Intersex covers non-trans instances (and TWYS is bullshit because of that)
Even the terms here are STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE (is it THAT fucking hard to say trans? seriously?)
Yes this DOES need to happen, these terms are slurs used mostly in a negative connotation towards people. No, the word doesn't care if you don't think or feel like you use it as a slur; it IS one. end. of. discussion.

also to anyone defending the Trap tag
fuck you.

Yeah I'm coming off as aggressive here
but y'know what? when you're transgender
and literally no one cares to maybe listen to the group of people these terms will effect the most? that's fucking infuriating.

You can get your point across without being hostile. Being hostile will convince no one and will only create more distaste towards your cause.

TheHuskyK9 said:
You can get your point across without being hostile. Being hostile will convince no one and will only create more distaste towards your cause.

do you understand, exactly how long we've been trying to get this point across peacefully
no one
fucking
listens.

vaelophis_nyx said:
do you understand, exactly how long we've been trying to get this point across peacefully
no one
fucking
listens.

Except for the fact that the mod team is not your enemy in this case. They're doing the tag change that trans people have been wanting for a long time.

MissChu said:
Except for the fact that the mod team is not your enemy in this case. They're doing the tag change that trans people have been wanting for a long time.

except they're still ignoring what we're asking for
they're just changing out two slurs for two more slurs

no-one bothered to talk to anyone who this matters to it seems
the mod team has the transparency of a brick wall and is about as reasonable as well.

vaelophis_nyx said:
do you understand, exactly how long we've been trying to get this point across peacefully
no one
fucking
listens.

So insulting them instead is going to produce better results and get them on your side?

TheHuskyK9 said:
So insulting them instead is going to produce better results and get them on your side?

No
no I never actually expected them to be on anyone's side but their own
and everything aside; of course they wont care. they have power and no accountability
the whole admin & mod team does

Yes I'm aware that I'm talking to one right now

Don't preach this as "for trans people!" and then just fucking ignore us as a whole when people tell you all that this is not the right move.

I'm outta here, I don't have the time, patience or energy for you all
I hope the administration team takes a closer look at this decision, and maybe bothers to talk to anyone it will effect.

Did y'all like. Talk to a trans person about the new terms. Because "man with feminine features" is not really all that much better than dickgirl.

Source: I am trans. My friends are trans. We are not happy about this.

And, as a suggestion for better terms? Just use trans and intersex. You're using us as fetish fuel the least you can do is not dig through history to find terms that let you distance yourself from acknowledging our existence.

vaelophis_nyx said:
to literally all of you complaining that there is a change happening at all:

Intersex covers non-trans instances (and TWYS is bullshit because of that)
Even the terms here are STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE (is it THAT fucking hard to say trans? seriously?)
Yes this DOES need to happen, these terms are slurs used mostly in a negative connotation towards people. No, the word doesn't care if you don't think or feel like you use it as a slur; it IS one. end. of. discussion.

also to anyone defending the Trap tag
fuck you.

Yeah I'm coming off as aggressive here
but y'know what? when you're transgender
and literally no one cares to maybe listen to the group of people these terms will effect the most? that's fucking infuriating.

This is not a trans thing. This has never been a trans thing. Most of the characters currently tagged as dickgirl or cuntboy are not trans. "Transmale" and "transfemale" are not visually discernible things, which means we simply can't tag them. Visibly_trans is the only tag we can offer there.

Also, the definition of intersex in medicine has always been for any abnormal expression of genes that caused sexual characteristics to deviate from the regular XX and XY expressions. These biological deviations does not make these people trans.

NotMeNotYou said:
This is not a trans thing. This has never been a trans thing. Most of the characters currently tagged as dickgirl or cuntboy are not trans. "Transmale" and "transfemale" are not visually discernible things, which means we simply can't tag them. Visibly_trans is the only tag we can offer there.

I mean gender isn't a visually discernable thing at all. If you just care about being as accurate as possible why not just completely change the tags so you just tag what genitals you see. "Dick" and "boobs" are visually discernable.

And since I know the response to this will be "the tags are about sex, not gender" 1: dickgirl isn't a sex. If the issue is purely that you want a tag for characters who don't appear to be either binary sex, just use intersex. It's what the word means. and 2: Sex is also not visually discernable! Unless the art includes a zoom in on the character's chromosomes you can't know what their sex at birth was. There is a wide range of ways being intersex can affect your body, and there's trans people who are indistinguishable from cis people.

And if you're not going to take us into consideration when it comes to tags describing our bodies, then just go back to callin us fuckin shemales. At least then we know where we stand. Don't make a news post saying you're making the tags "less vulgar" and then fall back on the same old excuses of "we tag what we see" when people tell you you did a bad job, because then what was the point in the first place. If you only care about people knowing what the tag has in it, dickgirl worked just fine

vaelophis_nyx said:
No
no I never actually expected them to be on anyone's side but their own
and everything aside; of course they wont care. they have power and no accountability
the whole admin & mod team does

Yes I'm aware that I'm talking to one right now

Don't preach this as "for trans people!" and then just fucking ignore us as a whole when people tell you all that this is not the right move.

I'm outta here, I don't have the time, patience or energy for you all
I hope the administration team takes a closer look at this decision, and maybe bothers to talk to anyone it will effect.

When and where did we ever "preach" that this was "for the trans people"? Our goal was to replace the previous tags with less vulgar terminology.

Also, this is what this thread is for; communication and transparency, the things that you accuse us of not having. So when we do give you those things, you leave?

I thought the whole point of this alias was to make it more polite.

as another trans person on this site, this change doesn’t fix anything. the only reason artists (and they are ALL fucking cis) even label their characters “dickgirls” and “cuntboys” is because they are too fucking bigoted and cowardly to call them trans. if they say the excuse that they were “just girls born with a dick”, pls know that that’s also the case for basically all trans women irl. (and vice versa for trans men.) we have the term “assigned gender at birth” for a reason. the label we got as a baby wasn’t our fucking choice. call trans girls trans girls. call trans men trans men. and on that note, call cis girls cis girls and cis men cis men too.

and yes. being intersex doesn’t make u nessaraly trans (which relates back to AGAB. which is why we should get rid of the current intersex parent and relabel h**m as intersex. p fucking easy.

and btw, we do have the right, if not the fucking OBLIGATION, to be pissed about this bigoted waffling on the tag policy. it took u 12 fucking years to get even this far, cuz the money of bigoted chasers in denial ment to much too much for u shitty hateful mods. it’s about time u get with the moral political program for fucking once.

weirdoslam said:
as another trans person on this site, this change doesn’t fix anything. the only reason artists (and they are ALL fucking cis) even label their characters “dickgirls” and “cuntboys” is because they are too fucking bigoted and cowardly to call them trans. if they say the excuse that they were “just girls born with a dick”, pls know that that’s also the case for basically all trans women irl. (and vice versa for trans men.) we have the term “assigned gender at birth” for a reason. the label we got as a baby wasn’t our fucking choice. call trans girls trans girls. call trans men trans men. and on that note, call cis girls cis girls and cis men cis men too.

and yes. being intersex doesn’t make u nessaraly trans (which relates back to AGAB. which is why we should get rid of the current intersex parent and relabel h**m as intersex. p fucking easy.

and btw, we do have the right, if not the fucking OBLIGATION, to be pissed about this bigoted waffling on the tag policy. it took u 12 fucking years to get even this far, cuz the money of bigoted chasers in denial ment to much too much for u shitty hateful mods. it’s about time u get with the moral political program for fucking once.

Money?

weirdoslam said:
h**m

Why'd you censor the word Herm?
Is herm a swear word now?

What's the current 2-post gynomorph character tag being cleaned up into?
Or is it just going to be slapped into the new tag when the alias rolls through?

Untamed said:
Why'd you censor the word Herm?
Is herm a swear word now?

it’s always been one to intersex folks. pls actually talk to them irl about this stuff. jfc y’all rlly pride urselves on being ignorant don’t u

weirdoslam said:
as another trans person on this site, this change doesn’t fix anything. the only reason artists (and they are ALL fucking cis) even label their characters “dickgirls” and “cuntboys” is because they are too fucking bigoted and cowardly to call them trans. if they say the excuse that they were “just girls born with a dick”, pls know that that’s also the case for basically all trans women irl. (and vice versa for trans men.) we have the term “assigned gender at birth” for a reason. the label we got as a baby wasn’t our fucking choice. call trans girls trans girls. call trans men trans men. and on that note, call cis girls cis girls and cis men cis men too.

and yes. being intersex doesn’t make u nessaraly trans (which relates back to AGAB. which is why we should get rid of the current intersex parent and relabel h**m as intersex. p fucking easy.

and btw, we do have the right, if not the fucking OBLIGATION, to be pissed about this bigoted waffling on the tag policy. it took u 12 fucking years to get even this far, cuz the money of bigoted chasers in denial ment to much too much for u shitty hateful mods. it’s about time u get with the moral political program for fucking once.

I didn't realize ever single artist was straight. I guess gay, bi, and trans people don't make art. Also most images of characters feminine nature with penises are drawn in fetish, not to be trans. There are trans characters, I know I even saw an artist whom would tell you what the character is in the description of their posts so you knew what they were.

One thing that's confused me, is seeing people get uppset when their character is.. m/f trans (example) get tagged as female instead trans-female like.. I thought you didn't want to be excluded becoz of the journey, but than you still want to exclude yourselves from everyone.

considering I think the current suggested alias was even suggested by someone on the spectrum in a forum a while back, what do you suggest to as an alternative alias that doesn't declare every female with a penis as trans, because it's really only a small amount that are.

TheHuskyK9 said:
When and where did we ever "preach" that this was "for the trans people"? Our goal was to replace the previous tags with less vulgar terminology.

Also, this is what this thread is for; communication and transparency, the things that you accuse us of not having. So when we do give you those things, you leave?

maybe if u stopped tone-policing members of our oppressed community on them bringing up their genuine problems with this policy, maybe if u actually listened to the ideas she was trying to say, she would be more then willing to listen back to u.

weirdoslam said:
it’s always been one to intersex folks. pls actually talk to them irl about this stuff. jfc y’all rlly pride urselves on being ignorant don’t u

Herm is short for Hermaphrodite, which is a scientific term. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite
From that article:

The term derives from the Latin: hermaphroditus, from Ancient Greek: ἑρμαφρόδιτος, romanized: hermaphroditos,[7] which derives from Hermaphroditus (Ἑρμαφρόδιτος), the son of Hermes and Aphrodite in Greek mythology. According to Ovid, he fused with the nymph Salmacis resulting in one individual possessing physical traits of male and female sexes

Stop trying to make everything about you, because it isn't. Cuntboys/dickgirls/herms ARE NOT TRANSGENDER and have been around longer than transgender has been well known to everyone. Stop trying to ruin everyone's fun time.

Versperus said:
I didn't realize ever single artist was straight. I guess gay, bi, and trans people don't make art. Also most images of characters feminine nature with penises are drawn in fetish, not to be trans. There are trans characters, I know I even saw an artist whom would tell you what the character is in the description of their posts so you knew what they were.

One thing that's confused me, is seeing people get uppset when their character is.. m/f trans (example) get tagged as female instead trans-female like.. I thought you didn't want to be excluded becoz of the journey, but than you still want to exclude yourselves from everyone.

considering I think the current suggested alias was even suggested by someone on the spectrum in a forum a while back, what do you suggest to as an alternative alias that doesn't declare every female with a penis as trans, because it's really only a small amount that are.

yes i know trans artists exist. i wasn’t talking about them. they rightfully label their trans characters as trans. because they know trans people are worthy people with worthy existence. not just a ducking fetish. and the fact that u even explictly defended that fetisization says a lot about u. none of it positive

also did u even read my post? we can have trans_female and cis_female both be under a female parent tag. this isn’t hard.

btw u have to be ignorant and delusional to think that a majority of trans people can afford SRS, let alone want to get rid of their dick. like i said, y’all need to actually fucking talk to really existing trans people about this shit, instead of priding urselfs on making these decisions just based on ur own stereotypes. nothing about us fucking without us

Versperus said:
One thing that's confused me, is seeing people get uppset when their character is.. m/f trans (example) get tagged as female instead trans-female like.. I thought you didn't want to be excluded becoz of the journey, but than you still want to exclude yourselves from everyone.

assuming this is a genuine question: The ideal situation would just be two tags. The character would be tagged as female, and trans-female or whatever the tag would be. One does not need to erase the other. It's just a descriptor, like 'girly' or fuckin. 'blue-hair.' the girly tag doesn't erase the male tag.

weirdoslam said:
and btw, we do have the right, if not the fucking OBLIGATION, to be pissed about this bigoted waffling on the tag policy. it took u 12 fucking years to get even this far, cuz the money of bigoted chasers in denial ment to much too much for u shitty hateful mods. it’s about time u get with the moral political program for fucking once.

• Only 3 admins are getting paid, the rest are volunteers, including me. Money has nothing to do with this decision.

• We are not the same group of admins that were running the site 12 years ago. In fact, none of the admins from 12 years ago are currently part of the team.

• None of this is personal or political. It literally is just a change of terminology for something less vulgar.

weirdoslam said:
maybe if u stopped tone-policing members of our oppressed community on them bringing up their genuine problems with this policy, maybe if u actually listened to the ideas she was trying to say, she would be more then willing to listen back to u.

I'm "tone-policing" because I want everyone (not just transfolk) to communicate coherently. Flinging false accusations is not a way to convey whatever message you have. Also, they didn't state any ideas, just criticism and insults.

weirdoslam said:
also did u even read my post? we can have trans_female and cis_female both be under a female parent tag. this isn’t hard.

We tag by visuals, we do not tag by lore. Currently we do not have lore tags, maybe somewhere in future, but not right now.

Everyone is still free to state lore or bio in character wiki or description of the post if they feel so strongly to message to viewer if the character is trans or cis.
E: and of course visibly_trans is useable.

weirdoslam said:
also did u even read my post? we can have trans_female and cis_female both be under a female parent tag. this isn’t hard.

That's a stupid idea.
If someone wants to look up females on e621, I'm pretty sure they don't want their search results to be peppered with trans characters.

We have enough of that problem with males that are force tagged female just because they have a feminine figure and their dick isn't showing

Chaser said:
Herm is short for Hermaphrodite, which is a scientific term. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite
From that article:
Stop trying to make everything about you, because it isn't. Cuntboys/dickgirls/herms ARE NOT TRANSGENDER and have been around longer than transgender has been well known to everyone. Stop trying to ruin everyone's fun time.

a fucking admin saying this bigoted bullshit is only proving my fucking point.

yes we all know the scientific term. it’s also not used on humans in biology cuz there’s no known form of human intersex that can be truely described as hermaphroditism. and intersex people irl fucking hate that term. it’s obv a slur, fucking any actual intersex person and they will tell u so 100%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y9oQThUHRc

and the only reason we ever called trans people any of those bigoted terms before in history is because of the lack of knowledge of the term “transgender” in those times, if not the absolute transphobic refusal to be respectful to us as human beings and just calling us slurs with intentional maliciousness.

and btw. the “fun time” of trans people, lifelong trans furries on this site, is already being ruined every day by this considering bullshit by the mod team. and if ur a cis bigot and our questioning and critiquing of ur fucking reactionary hate speech is ruining ur “fun time”, fucking good. ur evil for getting joy in transphobia and u don’t deserve to have any fun at all.

Mairo said:
We tag by visuals, we do not tag by lore. Currently we do not have lore tags, maybe somewhere in future, but not right now.

Everyone is still free to state lore or bio in character wiki or description of the post if they feel so strongly to message to viewer if the character is trans or cis.
E: and of course visibly_trans is useable.

Citing site policy is not a very good defense against allegations of having a transphobic site policy. Because, the thing about site policy, is that it can be changed to not be transphobic.

Before you say it, yes, I know you weren't trying to defend against said allegations, and you were merely stating the site policy as everyone here is wont to do any time criticism arises. But being okay with having a transphobic site policy is not a very good way to quell criticisms about said transphobic site policy.

Untamed said:
That's a stupid idea.
If someone wants to look up females on e621, I'm pretty sure they don't want their search results to be peppered with trans characters.

thanks for revealing ur own transphobia pal.

btw did u not see the part where u can have a tag just for cis females too?

Untamed said:
That's a stupid idea.
If someone wants to look up females on e621, I'm pretty sure they don't want their search results to be peppered with trans characters.

And if trans people want to look up characters that represent them, we don't want to be forced to type in a slur, or dehumanize ourselves, or pretend we're not "real" women.

I care about one of these wants significantly more than the other.

weirdoslam said:
a fucking admin saying this bigoted bullshit is only proving my fucking point.

yes we all know the scientific term. it’s also not used on humans in biology cuz there’s no known form of human intersex that can be truely described as hermaphroditism. and intersex people irl fucking hate that term. it’s obv a slur, fucking any actual intersex person and they will tell u so 100%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y9oQThUHRc

and the only reason we ever called trans people any of those bigoted terms before in history is because of the lack of knowledge of the term “transgender” in those times, if not the absolute transphobic refusal to be respectful to us as human beings and just calling us slurs with intentional maliciousness.

and btw. the “fun time” of trans people, lifelong trans furries on this site, is already being ruined every day by this considering bullshit by the mod team. and if ur a cis bigot and our questioning and critiquing of ur fucking reactionary hate speech is ruining ur “fun time”, fucking good. ur evil for getting joy in transphobia and u don’t deserve to have any fun at all.

Considering you've said nothing useful thus far, declared other users as transfobic for disagreeing with you, and there are other users in this forum who've stated themselves as trans and getting points across civilly, it seems as though you're only trying to cause a disturbance at this point. and all that will achieve is getting this forum locked, which will only ruin the opportunity for others like you to say their bits before action takes place.

(Fun fact did you know phobia doesn't mean hate but fear?)

Versperus said:
Considering you've said nothing useful thus far, declared other users as transfobic for disagreeing with you, and there are other users in this forum who've stated themselves as trans and getting points across civilly, it seems as though you're only trying to cause a disturbance at this point. and all that will achieve is getting this forum locked, which will only ruin the opportunity for others like you to say their bits before action takes place.

(Fun fact did you know phobia doesn't mean hate but fear?)

lol cis bigot triggered more at 11

(sorry this took so long. I am so tired, and so busy right now, it is not even funny)

fatdoggeh said:
Did y'all like. Talk to a trans person about the new terms.

I mean, I'm not going to out anyone here, but we have a wide variety of people on our staff. Including several trans people, and other people who do not conform to the gender binary. We have people from a variety of sexualities as well. Not to mention a variety of nationalities, for that what is worth in this discussion. (it's worth more than you think, actually -- I had an interesting conversation today with a non-e621 friend about if "it" is an acceptable way to refer to a specific child of an undisclosed gender. we had different opinions due to the way our languages regard pronouns!)

Past that, if you fo to the forum, and sort by number of replies... and scroll past the forum games, and the bug report and feature requests, and one or two generic discussion threads, you'll find a thread with 1099 replies. that's 37 pages where we had a long, detailed conversation, over about 6 months, where a great many people weighted in on this conversation.

So. Yes.

We did, like, talk to a trans person. a great many of them. This was one of the favored options. This is what a lot of trans people wanted.

Source: I am trans. My friends are trans. We are not happy about this.

Trans people are not a singular entity. You are not a hive mind. you do not speak for all trans people. Thank you for sharing your opinion and that of your friends.... and if you have a better option, you might suggest them... but I promise that a L O T of ideas have been considered, discussed and thought about. This has been a long ass project that we have ALWAYS been willing to discuss with people who start the discussion politely.

And, as a suggestion for better terms? Just use trans and intersex. You're using us as fetish fuel the least you can do is not dig through history to find terms that let you distance yourself from acknowledging our existence.

These were actually the very first suggestions mentioned in the thread I mentioned. It was dismissed because sex isn't gender and gender isn't sex. we can't visually determine if a character is trans based just off of their body. I know many men with breasts and a vulva, and many women with a penis. The body does not indicate the state of mind. we are tagging the BODY, not the mind. That's why we have the visibly trans tag, y'know?

fatdoggeh said:
Citing site policy is not a very good defense against allegations of having a transphobic site policy. Because, the thing about site policy, is that it can be changed to not be transphobic.

Before you say it, yes, I know you weren't trying to defend against said allegations, and you were merely stating the site policy as everyone here is wont to do any time criticism arises. But being okay with having a transphobic site policy is not a very good way to quell criticisms about said transphobic site policy.

It's computer system which is applied equally to now nearly 2 million posts. I do not personally see it as transfobic, but simple organizing system. We are still artwork archive which is not restricted into reality.

We can change it, but that is like country changing its constitution, it means completely changing the whole foundation, which would mean essentially starting from scratch, for something that's relatively minor issue overall.

The current change is to at least make the terms used less slurry and pornographic while still complying with the system in use, because changing system would technically mean nuking the whole site and starting from the beginning again.

MagnusEffect said:
What's the current 2-post gynomorph character tag being cleaned up into?
Or is it just going to be slapped into the new tag when the alias rolls through?

New page, bumping my legit question in the middle of this shitstorm.

weirdoslam said:
yes we all know the scientific term. it’s also not used on humans in biology cuz there’s no known form of human intersex that can be truely described as hermaphroditism.

So if it isn't a thing humans can be, why get offended over it?

weirdoslam said:
and intersex people irl fucking hate that term. it’s obv a slur, fucking any actual intersex person and they will tell u so 100%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y9oQThUHRc

Anyone can say any word is offensive, it doesn't make it is actually offensive.

weirdoslam said:
and btw. the “fun time” of trans people, lifelong trans furries on this site, is already being ruined every day by this considering bullshit by the mod team.

We tried fixing the issue for some people, you clearly are not happy that we even attempted to make a change for the better. God forbid us try to be nice.
The "fun time" being, some people want to have a cuntboy character, some people want to have a dickgirl character, some people want to have a herm character. It is their choice and you should respect it. Just because they have these characters DOES NOT make them transphobic, it does not make the terms transphobic. People using these terms to call transgender people this is just like calling a transgender female a male, or visa versa. They are "misgendering them", it doesn't make "male" or "female" and offensive term.

weirdoslam said:
and if ur a cis bigot and our questioning and critiquing of ur fucking reactionary hate speech is ruining ur “fun time”, fucking good. ur evil for getting joy in transphobia and u don’t deserve to have any fun at all.

You are the one being hateful here. Using cis in a derogatory fashion. I will have you know I am actually genderfluid and pansexual. Also please learn what hate speech is, I recommend oxford dictionary.

Chaser said:
Herm is short for Hermaphrodite, which is a scientific term. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite

Hermaphrodite is not a term that's been used to describe people in a scientific sense in many, many years, because the scientific community listened to intersex people telling them it was dehumanizing, and adapted their language. Intersex people consider it to be a slur. That's not something that a non-intersex person gets to decide is untrue.

And here is a wikipedia article for you as well
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Mairo said:
It's computer system which is applied equally to now nearly 2 million posts. I do not personally see it as transfobic, but simple organizing system. We are still artwork archive which is not restricted into reality.

We can change it, but that is like country changing its constitution, it means completely changing the whole foundation, which would mean essentially starting from scratch, for something that's relatively minor issue overall.

The current change is to at least make the terms used less slurry and pornographic while still complying with the system in use, because changing system would technically mean nuking the whole site and starting from the beginning again.

sorry to tell u but ur organizing metadata system is transphobic and this is not a minor problem considering how many trans folks are in the furry community now and this would be something worth “nuking the whole site” over even tho these posts would still be here and would just need new metadata. god y’all fucks are so over dramatic

MagnusEffect said:
New page, bumping my legit question in the middle of this shitstorm.

at least be honest with ur intentions and just say “@all_trans_folx pls stfu”

MagnusEffect said:
New page, bumping my legit question in the middle of this shitstorm.

It was added by a secondary user a few years ago, the tag doesn't actually relate to the post in question in anyway after inspecting the source to see if the artist had it there in regards to anything which it wasn't and thus I simply removed it.

edit: nothermind, with how he used it I classed it as a species and suffixed his name to those posts.

weirdoslam said:
stuff

fatdoggeh said:
things

Look, you two, the bottom line is this.
This isn't your website to run, nothing you say or do will change anything.
If you don't like how the website is being run, go start your own website. Sure, it'll most likely fade into obscurity within a few weeks, but you'd be proud, nonetheless, to have made a website that you feel is better than e621.
Regardless, I think you should follow Valophis Nyx's example and leave before you lose any more of your credibility by continuously arguing with staff and administration.

vaelophis_nyx said:
I'm outta here, I don't have the time, patience or energy for you all
I hope the administration team takes a closer look at this decision, and maybe bothers to talk to anyone it will effect.

Untamed said:
Look, you two, the bottom line is this.
This isn't your website to run, nothing you say or do will change anything.
If you don't like how the website is being run, go start your own website. Sure, it'll most likely fade into obscurity within a few weeks, but you'd be proud, nonetheless, to have made a website that you feel is better than e621.
Regardless, I think you should follow Valophis Nyx's example and leave before you lose any more of your credibility by continuously arguing with staff and administration.

nice of u to reduce everything me and fat said as “stuff” and “things”. very fucking civil. very fuckin respectful of our thoughts. good example to set here for us trans hooligans amiright fellas

but ur right there’s nothing much i can say more cuz i’m just repeating myself at this point. get ur shit together e621. respect our existence for once. we ain’t leaving cuz we still users of this site and we expect some sort of democracy and rights here. thank u and fuck u. trans revolution 4ever

weirdoslam said:
we ain’t gonna be silent. the first ever tru queer pride event nice of u to reduce everything me and fat said as “stuff” and “things”. very fucking civil. very fuckin respectful of our thoughts. good example to set here for us trans hooligans amiright fellas

but ur right there’s nothing much i can say more cuz i’m just repeating myself at this point. get ur shit together e621. respect our existence for once. we ain’t leaving cuz we still users of this site and we expect some sort of democracy and rights here. thank u and fuck u. trans revolution 4ever

You have been the opposite of respectful so expecting it of others is odd, fatdoggeh on the other hand actually has been respectful, civil and making valid points so I'll give them credit where it is due.

weirdoslam said:
but ur right there’s nothing much i can say more cuz i’m just repeating myself at this point. get ur shit together e621. respect our existence for once. we ain’t leaving cuz we still users of this site and we expect some sort of democracy and rights here. thank u and fuck u. trans revolution 4ever

They are not even challenging your existence. Like what they already said, it's just a namechange for a couple tags. Wtf are you even talking about?