i brought this up a while ago but im still a bit unsure. so im currently drawing this thing and i am going to post it here when its finished but i have no idea what gender tags i am supposed to use. so the character has
-flat chest
-somewhat masculine body
-somewhat androgynous face
-no genitals, only anus and urethral opening
-no evidence that the character has ever had genitals (like scarring from dick removal)

so what tags i am exactly supposed to use to tag this?

Ambiguous_gender

iirc, "neuter" is the correct tag.

Halite said:
iirc, "neuter" is the correct tag.

Mutisija said:
-no genitals, only anus and urethral opening
-no evidence that the character has ever had genitals (like scarring from dick removal)

Mutisija said:
i brought this up a while ago but im still a bit unsure. so im currently drawing this thing and i am going to post it here when its finished but i have no idea what gender tags i am supposed to use. so the character has
-flat chest
-somewhat masculine body
-somewhat androgynous face
-no genitals, only anus and urethral opening
-no evidence that the character has ever had genitals (like scarring from dick removal)

so what tags i am exactly supposed to use to tag this?

I'm not a gender guru, so I stay away from tricky calls. But if I had to guess what to at least upload it as, I'd probably go with ambiguous_gender because there's no genital clues to break the difference between the adrogynous face, masculine body, and flat crotch (not even a bulge which might slant it towards male, or a hint of pussy would turn it towards cuntboy), so it kind of teeters on the edge between several options in my mind, hence ambiguous_gender. In any case though, I'd also tag it with featureless_crotch because there are no forms of genitalia and that's what that tag is meant for.

But maybe there's some more clues or details that other people know which can split the difference and tag it better on the gender part of things. I don't know.

ETA: by the way, that character looks awesome. I look forward to seeing when it's finished in all it's ambiguous gendered glory. I love the concept.

genderless?

Peekaboo said:

Halite said:
iirc, "neuter" is the correct tag.

Mutisija said:
.-no genitals, only anus and urethral opening
-no evidence that the character has ever had genitals (like scarring from dick removal)

Neuter
A character who (through surgery, birth, or accident) has no sex organs at all, and is thus genderless. This can refer to someone who was initially male or female but somehow lost their sex organs, as well as someone who has always been sexless. As breasts are considered a distinguishing female trait, most humanoid neuters are masculine in appearance.

You see, neuter isn't the same thing as neutered.
It's simply means lacking gender.

Halite said:

Neuter [from the wiki]
A character who (through surgery, birth, or accident) has no sex organs at all, and is thus genderless. This can refer to someone who was initially male or female but somehow lost their sex organs, as well as someone who has always been sexless. As breasts are considered a distinguishing female trait, most humanoid neuters are masculine in appearance.

You see, neuter isn't the same thing as neutered.
It's simply means lacking gender.

Neuter as a tag has become a mess in the last year. It used to be what you're saying here (and what the wiki still says).

But at some point (like a year ago maybe, I'd have to search up the threads), it got brought up for discussion. The discussion got dropped without anything happen, like so many do.
And at some point after that, someone decided "neuter" meant the same thing as "neutered" and they cleaned out everything under the tag that wasn't functionally castration. But they didn't change the wiki. Which leaves a mess. It also duplicates castration.
But when it got brought up again at some point, the discussion stalled out again and got dropped, stuck between A) whether or not the tag should be reverted back to match the wiki, B) whether the wiki should be changed to match the current usage, and C) if it was kept, whether this new form of neuter should be aliased to -> castration since it had functionally become a duplicate tag for balls removal. Last I checked, the usage was still functionally castration with a little bit of featureless_crotch thrown in. I might have even seen a penectomy or two.

In the meantime, featureless_crotch was invented to fill the void in tagging which the re-purposing of neuter into being used for castration purposes had left us with. So now we have an unclear tag (neuter), an unclear mess (between all of these tags), an inaccurate wiki (quoted above, and that was using a rather obscure/archaic definition of the word to begin with, which may have been part of the problem), and a tag discussion that's been revived several times but never any official actions to clarify any of it. These tag messes only tend to get worse when they get dropped like this, and that's frustrating to watch happen.

Also on the subject, no_genitals apparently exists but no one's sure if it should be used or not.
And genderless is a tag that probably SHOULD be aliased away to invalid_tag because it consistently gets tagged on a variety of unrelated things: androgyny, genderqueer characters, ambiguous_gender, castration, penectomy, nullo/nullification and featureless_crotch.

So, the argument is that someone screwed up a tag, so now we should stop using it?
That seems like the worst possible option.

Halite said:
So, the argument is that someone screwed up a tag, so now we should stop using it?

No, the argument is that someone changed the tag, and it's been replaced by other tags. Featureless crotch seems to work pretty well, and the usage is arguably clearer than neuter.

So it seems like a lot of work for little or no gain to revert that tag group back to how it used to be, especially when the current method of tagging those seems good enough.

Maybe we could just rename the neuter tag to neutered, and change the wiki entry?

As for the tags that furrypickle brought up above: neither genderless nor no_genitals are needed, though those have such low postcounts that I don't think they need to be aliased to anything. Unless someone's cleaned those up recently?

Genjar said:
No, the argument is that someone changed the tag, and it's been replaced by other tags. Featureless crotch seems to work pretty well, and the usage is arguably clearer than neuter.

So it seems like a lot of work for little or no gain to revert that tag group back to how it used to be, especially when the current method of tagging those seems good enough.

Maybe we could just rename the neuter tag to neutered, and change the wiki entry?

As for the tags that furrypickle brought up above: neither genderless nor no_genitals are needed, though those have such low postcounts that I don't think they need to be aliased to anything. Unless someone's cleaned those up recently?

I would agree with all of that.

On genderless, I know someone once mentioned that they maintain genderless, at the time they said they clear it out every few weeks/month. But I have no idea if that's still true or how often they do it. Tag history search isn't currently working for me, so I can't check. But I guess if it's still an issue, they can suggest it for alias. It may be that it no longer gets used as much as it did then. I don't know.

If the neuter tag is so screwed up that fixing it would basically involve starting from scratch, clear it and start over. That way your tagfixer labor pool doesn't involve strictly people who are interested in penectomies.

I believe tags can be deleted centrally by some method. At the very least, they can be aliased to invalid for a while, scrubbed by script, and then the alias removed.

31h253 said:
If the neuter tag is so screwed up that fixing it would basically involve starting from scratch, clear it and start over. That way your tagfixer labor pool doesn't involve strictly people who are interested in penectomies.

I believe tags can be deleted centrally by some method. At the very least, they can be aliased to invalid for a while, scrubbed by script, and then the alias removed.

There's less than 30 tagged currently, I can clear them out with privileged tools in about 1 minute.
Would it actually fix anything though?
It sounds like most of the people in the thread couldn't care less about it as a tag.

I think featureless_crotch is the best way of action, as neuter and ambiguous_gender imply there IS a gender or there was (Yes I alredy know that neuter doesn't mean it had).

Lizardite said:
genderless?

All the fault of gender special snowflakes. Can't say more as it would bring to topic that certain thread locked not long ago.

Halite said:
So, the argument is that someone screwed up a tag, so now we should stop using it?
That seems like the worst possible option.

The last three times we've brought up the neuter/castration/similar tags, nothing changed.

i still dont know what tag i am supposed to use :(

Mutisija said:
i still dont know what tag i am supposed to use :(

ambiguous_gender featureless_crotch