Implicating rape → sex
Link to implication

Reason:

i feel as though this is the implication with the largest impact that I have ever made. there are 81 pages of posts tagged with rape and not sex, and all of them either shouldn't even be tagged rape due to twys policy, or should get the sex tag.
By definition, rape is non-consentual forced **sex**!
You can't have that without sex.

EDIT: The tag implication rape -> sex (forum #262049) has been rejected by @NotMeNotYou.

Rape tends to get tagged for a lot of posts that take place after rape (even though we have the after_rape tag for that), and for posts where it is heavily implied but not actually seen. Several examples can be found in -rating:e rape.

So I don't think it'd work well in practice.

but still, those examples are really cases of the rape tag being misused, imho those posts shouldn't even be tagged rape, the implied_rape tag exists, extremely underutilized tag, should really get more attention, only around 40 posts tagged with it

Yeah, that's true. Still, if it is implicated, then those mistagged rape posts will also end up being mistagged as sex. Which just makes it worse. I think the rape tag needs a good cleaning before any implications, and with nearly 19000 posts that won't be a quick project.

The wiki entry for rape doesn't even mention imminent_rape and after_rape tags, so that's probably one reason. Could use a rewrite, which might cut down the number of mistags. I'll get around to that if I find time..

Rape is one of those tags that we prefer to over tag than under tag.

No one should have to see rape or rape-related images if they don't want to.

We should use the other tags too -- implied rape, imminent rape, after rape etc-- but I feel like they should all imply one other tag --like rape--otherwise blacklists will be broken. :/

It's a shame that an alias can't change someone's blacklist...

SnowWolf said:
We should use the other tags too -- implied rape, imminent rape, after rape etc-- but I feel like they should all imply one other tag --like rape--otherwise blacklists will be broken. :/

But Rape currently implies forced, and that doesn't apply well to most of pre- and after-rape posts..

Thread seems to have stalled with no consensus.
(edit: which is understandable as there is so much to do)

Genjar said:
But Rape currently implies forced, and that doesn't apply well to most of pre- and after-rape posts..

Added after_rape to rape wiki's See also section.
(which i assume is ok, based on previous comments in this thread)

Since after_rape tag doesn't imply to rape tag,
perhaps make an announcement that people who don't want to see after_rape should add after_rape to their blacklist??

Maybe give people a full month to add after_rape to their blacklists,
after which maybe after_rape images (the ones where no sexual activity depicted) should have tag changed from rape to after_rape???

(edit: hope I have used an appropriate amount of writing. Sometimes if I am too concise or too wordy i get misinterpreted)

The tag forced_sex aliases to rape, so why wouldn't rape imply sex?

a_username said:
The tag forced_sex aliases to rape, so why wouldn't rape imply sex?

Army of the Damned, arise!

Because forced sex is always rape, but rape is not always sex. Rape can also include the general act of one forcibly removing another's clothing, forcing them to move their body into certain positions, et cetera. The common theme of rape is that it's forced and it's sexual in nature, but it's not always sex.

siral_exan said:
Rape can also include the general act of one forcibly removing another's clothing, forcing them to move their body into certain positions, et cetera.

Wouldn't that fall under forced?

strikerman said:
Wouldn't that fall under forced?

That's why rape implies forced. Frankly, rape and forced are nearly synonymous, the only difference is forced is a more general tag than rape... but that's the wiki definition. The definition can be changed, if we want to alter rape to always include sex, but I'm not the person to talk to about that.

siral_exan said:
The definition can be changed, if we want to alter rape to always include sex, but I'm not the person to talk to about that.

It already does:

rape says:
Images or animations depicting at least one character forcing at least one other character to engage in sexual activities of any kind with them against the second character's will.

Note the "sexual activities" link is for the sex tag. Someone forcing another to pose or dance sexily or forcefully stripping another doesn't fall under the tag. That would be sexual_assault.

siral_exan said:
Army of the Damned, arise!

Because forced sex is always rape, but rape is not always sex. Rape can also include the general act of one forcibly removing another's clothing, forcing them to move their body into certain positions, et cetera. The common theme of rape is that it's forced and it's sexual in nature, but it's not always sex.

Under the common usage of the word (and, as Watsit pointed out, how it’s already described on the wiki), rape is, in fact, always sex. And if we were to change the definition so it wasn’t, we’d have to remove the forced_sex -> rape alias so that we have a tag to describe actual rape. But that all seems unnecessary since we already have rape to describe rape, and forced that covers all other non-consensual activity in addition to rape.

That all being said, we probably should approve this implication. As mentioned before, rape might need to be cleaned up a bit first, separating things into after_rape, imminent_rape, and implied_rape where appropriate. I may go ahead and start working on that if I got some confirmation from an admin that we are going to do this.

According to the wiki description it seems to be this combination, but it doesn't seem to be active.

Damn. 7200 posts now tagged as rape but not sex even though they depict sex that is rape, and also still people improperly tagging after_rape as rape. Can we get someone to tag wrangle? I've been trying to tag the rapes that also show sex and the rapes that aren't actually rapes but after_rapes and my hands are getting tired from clicking and typing.

smilepyrvulpi said:
Damn. 7200 posts now tagged as rape but not sex even though they depict sex that is rape, and also still people improperly tagging after_rape as rape. Can we get someone to tag wrangle? I've been trying to tag the rapes that also show sex and the rapes that aren't actually rapes but after_rapes and my hands are getting tired from clicking and typing.

Consider using tagme.dev for something like this. https://e621.net/forum_topics/27288

Looking for -rape sex I come across for example forced bukkake, like in post #7690

The wiki descriptions for molestation, rape and sex are not very clear on this. I guess this should be molestation and not sex, and perhaps rape?

The tag implication rape -> sex (forum #262049) has been rejected by @NotMeNotYou.