The bulk update request #987 is active.

create alias mewlava (0) -> hybrid (147283)
create alias zorocario (0) -> hybrid (147283)
create alias zorupix (0) -> hybrid (147283)
create alias tigerchu (0) -> hybrid (147283)
create alias lucachu (0) -> hybrid (147283)
create alias rosechu_(species) (0) -> hybrid (147283)
remove implication sonichu_(species) (0) -> sonichu_(series) (255)
create alias angelchu (0) -> hybrid (147283)
create alias pikachumbreon (0) -> hybrid (147283)
create alias mewgia_(species) (0) -> hybrid (147283)
create alias salugia (0) -> hybrid (147283)
create alias mystgoose (0) -> hybrid (147283)

Reason: Some hybrid pokemon species. Other hybrid species are aliased away like this (cheefox, lucaridon, foxcario), so these should be too. There's no doubt tons more I'm missing, there ain't no way I can go through and check every pokemon for a part of their name appearing in another species, but these seem to be the most obvious cases (*chu*, *eev*, *vee*, *luc*, *ario*, *zor*, *mew*). I've cleared out a few by hand that hadn't had a post in years and didn't have many to begin with.

EDIT:
Updated to first deimplicate sonichu_(species) from sonichu_(series), so a future BUR can alias it away:

alias sonichu_(species) -> hybrid

EDIT: The bulk update request #987 (forum #311476) has been approved by @gattonero2001.

Not sure what to do about sonichu. It makes sense as a character, but as a species it's just someone's pikachu hybrid. So it would need to deimplicate sonichu_(series). I can do that if this idea is otherwise okay.

watsit said:
Not sure what to do about sonichu. It makes sense as a character, but as a species it's just someone's pikachu hybrid. So it would need to deimplicate sonichu_(series). I can do that if this idea is otherwise okay.

Completely fair to alias away a species. Only the character needs to stick around.

Updated to include salugia (salazzle + lugia) and mystgoose (meowstic + zangoose).

Not sure about aliasing Tigerchu, since it refers to a specific prototype design of Pikachu. Not a canon one, but it's notable enough for the specific tag to have value I believe.

COOL, now I won't be able to find a certain hybrid if it all gets aliased to hybrid.
this isn't fair, albeit, I may be a minority here.
Still, kinda annoyed at certain creations getting thrown into an umbrella.

Now how am I supposed to find these specific things in the future, if wanted to?
Looks like more work, what a drag.

closetpossum said:
COOL, now I won't be able to find a certain hybrid if it all gets aliased to hybrid.
this isn't fair, albeit, I may be a minority here.
Still, kinda annoyed at certain creations getting thrown into an umbrella.

Now how am I supposed to find these specific things in the future, if wanted to?
Looks like more work, what a drag.

solution is using both the hybrid species tags in the search bar with hybrid. i.e. umbreon sylveon hybrid

penguinempire-dennis said:
Not sure about aliasing Tigerchu, since it refers to a specific prototype design of Pikachu. Not a canon one, but it's notable enough for the specific tag to have value I believe.

If there's an actual prototype design of pikachu that the creators were working with, a tag like pikachu_(prototype) would be more appropriate. tigerchu would apply to any combination of a tiger and pikachu, from a pikachu with tiger coloring to a tiger with pikachu coloring and everywhere in between, making it not be just for that specific design you're referring to.

versperus said:
solution is using both the hybrid species tags in the search bar with hybrid. i.e. umbreon sylveon hybrid

Just as long as we don't have a million obscure tags all aliased to such a common tag.
It's annoying to be typing a pretty common tag, for instance if you were trying to enter "Mewtwo" if these aliases go through, only for the first suggestion to come up as "Hybrid" because the alias that was only used a dozen times is grouped into such a big tag.

versperus said:
solution is using both the hybrid species tags in the search bar with hybrid. i.e. umbreon sylveon hybrid

that doesn't solve the issue, it only trims it down. What if one of these hybrid designs has over 20 pics, now if BURs like this go through, you just scattered the images. Now it'd be like finding a needle in a haystack. That's pretty bull, ngl.

20 over 1k, 20 over 10k, whatever amount, that's quite ludicrous. From what I see being added to the BUR, these have few images. But what of the ones with higher numbers?

Not okay with that in my opinion.

closetpossum said:
that doesn't solve the issue, it only trims it down. What if one of these hybrid designs has over 20 pics, now if BURs like this go through, you just scattered the images. Now it'd be like finding a needle in a haystack. That's pretty bull, ngl.

20 over 1k, 20 over 10k, whatever amount, that's quite ludicrous. From what I see being added to the BUR, these have few images. But what of the ones with higher numbers?

Not okay with that in my opinion.

1k? 10k? Where did you get those numbers?

mew quilava hybrid has only about one full page of results. There would be more, but many of the results for mewlava are missing the hybrid tag, which this BUR would actually fix. And even the results that are there seem to mostly be mewlava, so you really don’t have to do much digging.

The problem with leaving hybrid tags like these is that there can be so many combinations, and most of them are probably only going to have a couple results, making the tags hardly useful… especially considering that two different artists making a hybrid of the same two species might give them different names, using hybrid plus the two species tags instead will necessarily include both of them.

Think about how many thousands upon thousands of real species exist… plus the thousands of fictional species across various franchises such as Pokémon and Monster Hunter. There’s an impossibly large number of possible combinations, and having tags for each of them, even those that never get more than one drawing, is hardly helpful. Plus, aliasing them to hybrid allows you to search for all hybrids, or all hybrids from a certain franchise (all Pokémon hybrids) or all hybrids involving a particular species (fox hybrids), etc.

Also, let's be real here, 100% of Pokémon hybrids are the result of someone trying to make their OC super speshul, and the species tag is just a vanity accessory to the character tag.

wat8548 said:
Also, let's be real here, 100% of Pokémon hybrids are the result of someone trying to make their OC super speshul, and the species tag is just a vanity accessory to the character tag.

Yeah, this.
We can just use a character tag instead of a species tag for these.

In fact, if you want to “preserve” any of these tags, you can probably just add a new character tag (ie. mewlava_(character)) to all of the posts that feature that particular hybrid design.

scaliespe said:
In fact, if you want to “preserve” any of these tags, you can probably just add a new character tag (ie. mewlava_(character)) to all of the posts that feature that particular hybrid design.

I would recommend not doing that. Making a character tag to use in place of a species tag that's been aliased away is just as bad as the species tag, and would be considered tagging abuse. You'd have to be absolutely sure such a tag is being applied to the same character, in which case it's best to get a proper name and suffix for them.

In the case of mewlava, the character already has a name: emmy_(battle_fennec).

watsit said:
I would recommend not doing that. Making a character tag to use in place of a species tag that's been aliased away is just as bad as the species tag, and would be considered tagging abuse. You'd have to be absolutely sure such a tag is being applied to the same character, in which case it's best to get a proper name and suffix for them.

In the case of mewlava, the character already has a name: emmy_(battle_fennec).

Well, that’s not exactly what I meant. It would have to be something that was actually made to be a character, sure—but if the same exact design has been drawn more than once, especially if by the same artist, chances are that it is a character. That’s why I initially said you could apply a character tag to all the posts featuring an identical hybrid design. Not different designs for a hybrid of the same two species, however. The only ones here who are not characters are most likely just one-off drawings, and even those are sometimes given a name. mewlava_(character) was just an example, with mewlava to be replaced by the character’s actual name, and (character) to be replaced by the character’s owner. Though, it is worth noting that sometimes the hybrid character’s name is a portmanteau of the component species, as in the case of dragonchu_(character) (Dragonair x Pikachu hybrid).

Of course, you can’t just make a character where there isn’t one, or to unify different hybrid designs of the same two species. It does have to at least be the same design, and probably by the same artist, though not always, as sometimes multiple artists may be drawing the same character. It does seem that most of these hybrid species actually contain characters that are just missing the character tag, however.

I should also note that there have been cases where an artist draws what is clearly meant to be a character, though the character is never formally given a name. One example is rose_(spotty_the_cheetah). The artist had drawn this character several times over the years, and you can tell from the design that it definitely is a character—a consistent, specific design, that is. It wasn’t until the last drawing of the character that she was finally given a name by the artist, though still none of the posts had a character tag—so I created the tag and applied it to all the drawings. But even had that not happened, I’d think a character tag would be justified in helping people to find and identify the character, even one lacking a formal name.

scaliespe said:

1k? 10k? Where did you get those numbers?

mew quilava hybrid has only about one full page of results. There would be more, but many of the results for mewlava are missing the hybrid tag, which this BUR would actually fix. And even the results that are there seem to mostly be mewlava, so you really don’t have to do much digging.

The problem with leaving hybrid tags like these is that there can be so many combinations, and most of them are probably only going to have a couple results, making the tags hardly useful… especially considering that two different artists making a hybrid of the same two species might give them different names, using hybrid plus the two species tags instead will necessarily include both of them.

Think about how many thousands upon thousands of real species exist… plus the thousands of fictional species across various franchises such as Pokémon and Monster Hunter. There’s an impossibly large number of possible combinations, and having tags for each of them, even those that never get more than one drawing, is hardly helpful. Plus, aliasing them to hybrid allows you to search for all hybrids, or all hybrids from a certain franchise (all Pokémon hybrids) or all hybrids involving a particular species (fox hybrids), etc.

how is that fixing the issue when OP is aliasing the hybrid species tags into hybrid instead of implying? This isn't a "fix" it's merging. The point you were just trying to make is mute.

wat8548 said:
Also, let's be real here, 100% of Pokémon hybrids are the result of someone trying to make their OC super speshul, and the species tag is just a vanity accessory to the character tag.

OC or not, it's a species they made up by combining two together. You're overgeneralizing that everyone who does this wants to be "special" but in reality, some people just want to see two pokemon they like and fuse them together. Maybe there's one or two pics like that that may be chocked into the hybrid tag pit. But if you have a whole 1 or 2 pages of one of these hybrids just tossed into the hybrid pile by aliasing them away INSTEAD of IMPLY. Then you only make it harder to search for the hybrid.

Again, this is making finding specific hybrids (of pokemon) harder to find.

watsit said:
I would recommend not doing that. Making a character tag to use in place of a species tag that's been aliased away is just as bad as the species tag, and would be considered tagging abuse. You'd have to be absolutely sure such a tag is being applied to the same character, in which case it's best to get a proper name and suffix for them.

In the case of mewlava, the character already has a name: emmy_(battle_fennec).

then what other alternative are you giving people? Getting rid of the names by merging them with the hybrid tag. Can't add them to character, what else is there to do in order to preserve?

closetpossum said:
Again, this is making finding specific hybrids (of pokemon) harder to find.

And trying to guess what specific combination of syllables will produce the result you want isn't?

closetpossum said:
how is that fixing the issue when OP is aliasing the hybrid species tags into hybrid instead of implying? This isn't a "fix" it's merging. The point you were just trying to make is mute.

OC or not, it's a species they made up by combining two together. You're overgeneralizing that everyone who does this wants to be "special" but in reality, some people just want to see two pokemon they like and fuse them together. Maybe there's one or two pics like that that may be chocked into the hybrid tag pit. But if you have a whole 1 or 2 pages of one of these hybrids just tossed into the hybrid pile by aliasing them away INSTEAD of IMPLY. Then you only make it harder to search for the hybrid.

Again, this is making finding specific hybrids (of pokemon) harder to find.

then what other alternative are you giving people? Getting rid of the names by merging them with the hybrid tag. Can't add them to character, what else is there to do in order to preserve?

it's not just op it's been a site standard for a long time. There are 2 ways someone could get around this without causing a ruckus,
1. create a set for the related content like has been done with black panters
2. add the name of the hybrid species to the description. you can use this as part of the search, i.e. description:blue

wat8548 said:
And trying to guess what specific combination of syllables will produce the result you want isn't?

no because the individual would most likely know the hybrid species name they're looking for. In doing this, as a user said before, you'd now have to tag the two pokemons that created the hybrid and then tag hybrid along with that. Hoping that you'd find the hybrid you've been looking for when all other hybrids are meshed together. It's making a simple way convoluted imo.

versperus said:
it's not just op it's been a site standard for a long time. There are 2 ways someone could get around this without causing a ruckus,
1. create a set for the related content like has been done with black panters
2. add the name of the hybrid species to the description. you can use this as part of the search, i.e. description:blue

then that's basically telling users to use up one of their limited sets, you don't get that many sets to use. If someone is willing to do that they can. I would debate that in allowing this, instead of the hybrid being together in its own tag you're having users use up a set in order to keep it together. Why should anyone have to waste a set when they can just go to a tag already made for the species?

For example, say someone made a hybrid of Lopunny and..say gardevoir, and hypothetically, it had over 200 images and OP decided to alias this fusion species to hybrid. Now you just blended the Lopunny/gardevoir into a giant umbrella.
Now you'd have to do specific tagging in the search engine, and add those images to a set just so you can have them all in one place.

That's both too much work and unneccesary. You're practically getting rid of a good thing.

closetpossum said:
no because the individual would most likely know the hybrid species name they're looking for.

What makes you think that?

Take for example...

closetpossum said:
For example, say someone made a hybrid of Lopunny and..say gardevoir

And call it what? Lopevoir? Gardevunny? Gardunny? Lopunnoir? What if a second someone had the same idea and called their design something different? And where does this leave the hypothetical third someone who is looking for a fusion of these two things, who is the only someone that the tagging system is actually intended to serve? Under what circumstances would they "most likely know" this unless, of course, they are the same someone as the one who created the tag in the first place - in which case, it's a vanity tag that should be in the character category instead?

closetpossum said:
no because the individual would most likely know the hybrid species name they're looking for.

Hi, since you're such an expert on furry linguistics, can you explain your reasoning? Can you explain the principles behind furry naming schemes for one-off hybrids of fictional species?
Does the existence of pikachumbreon suggest that these portmanteaus should be joined wherever there's a shared letter? "Zoroark" and "Lucario" share two letters in the same order, "ar", so why don't we call the associated hybrid "Zoroario"?
Can you explain why the "l" in "Vulpix" is omitted from Zorupix, when the "u" shared between Zorua and Vulpix carried over just fine?
How many syllables long is a species' name allowed to be before its name must be shortened for these hybrid species names? "Mew" is short enough to be included in its entirety in Mewlava and Mewgia_(species), "Angel" is short enough to be a part of Angelchu, and "Lugia" is short enough to be a part of Salugia, but the two-syllable-long "Zangoose" is apparently too long for Mystgoose.

Just to come a little closer to the truth of fucked-up-hybrid-species-naming, I dove into the aliases for hybrid and pulled out a few choice examples.
Why is the triadic hybrid of Krystal, Renamon, and Lucario rendered as Krystariomon? Surely the presence of a shared "l" means that "Krystal" and "Lucario" could be joined as Krystalucario. Additionally, "Mon" is too short to identify this hybrid as anything besides a generic Digimon, where's the "Rena"? Why wasn't that tag "Krystalucarenamon" instead?
Why is the hybrid of Buizel and Arcanine just Buizanine_(species)? Surely, "Buizel" is short enough, and has few enough syllables, that it can be spelled out in its entirety? Why didn't that person use "Buizelanine" instead?
Why are Pandafox_(species) and Fox_panda separate?
Why is a Foxmoogle not a "Foogle"?
Why is a Wolfbreon not an "Umbreolf"?
Why does Shark_fox have a space, when Bearshark doesn't?

Alternatively, if you retract this claim, no explanation will be necessary.

wat8548 said:
What makes you think that?

Take for example...

And call it what? Lopevoir? Gardevunny? Gardunny? Lopunnoir? What if a second someone had the same idea and called their design something different? And where does this leave the hypothetical third someone who is looking for a fusion of these two things, who is the only someone that the tagging system is actually intended to serve? Under what circumstances would they "most likely know" this unless, of course, they are the same someone as the one who created the tag in the first place - in which case, it's a vanity tag that should be in the character category instead?

then those lopunny hybrids get aliased to one lopunny hybrid tag regardless of their difference in appearance. It may be different styles but it'd still be the same fusion of said two pokemons together. It's better than just chocking them all into the hybrid and losing their placement. At least the individual KNOWS that if they want to see a Lopunny gardevoir hybrid, there would be a tag for it.

In fact, this discussion just doesn't apply to pokemon, what about digimon hybrids as well, IIRC, there are fusions of two digimons into making another species as well and I myself have uploaded said species, so I'm pretty against the overgeneralization of aliasing fusion species to hybrid and calling it a day.

They should be allowed to remain separate. And as Watsit said, he doesn't recommend putting these fusion species into the character section. Though, people will STILL do that.The point is: At the very least these fusion species of this and ANY kind should be implied to hybrid rather than aliased.

lafcadio said:
Hi, since you're such an expert on furry linguistics, can you explain your reasoning? Can you explain the principles behind furry naming schemes for one-off hybrids of fictional species?
Does the existence of pikachumbreon suggest that these portmanteaus should be joined wherever there's a shared letter? "Zoroark" and "Lucario" share two letters in the same order, "ar", so why don't we call the associated hybrid "Zoroario"?
Can you explain why the "l" in "Vulpix" is omitted from Zorupix, when the "u" shared between Zorua and Vulpix carried over just fine?
How many syllables long is a species' name allowed to be before its name must be shortened for these hybrid species names? "Mew" is short enough to be included in its entirety in Mewlava and Mewgia_(species), "Angel" is short enough to be a part of Angelchu, and "Lugia" is short enough to be a part of Salugia, but the two-syllable-long "Zangoose" is apparently too long for Mystgoose.

Just to come a little closer to the truth of fucked-up-hybrid-species-naming, I dove into the aliases for hybrid and pulled out a few choice examples.
Why is the triadic hybrid of Krystal, Renamon, and Lucario rendered as Krystariomon? Surely the presence of a shared "l" means that "Krystal" and "Lucario" could be joined as Krystalucario. Additionally, "Mon" is too short to identify this hybrid as anything besides a generic Digimon, where's the "Rena"? Why wasn't that tag "Krystalucarenamon" instead?
Why is the hybrid of Buizel and Arcanine just Buizanine_(species)? Surely, "Buizel" is short enough, and has few enough syllables, that it can be spelled out in its entirety? Why didn't that person use "Buizelanine" instead?
Why are Pandafox_(species) and Fox_panda separate?
Why is a Foxmoogle not a "Foogle"?
Why is a Wolfbreon not an "Umbreolf"?
Why does Shark_fox have a space, when Bearshark doesn't?

Alternatively, if you retract this claim, no explanation will be necessary.

what are you talking about? That's irrelevant to me, I don't care about naming conventions! I care about where the art is.
I'm not WRONG and you're not RIGHT, it's a matter of both opinion and perspectives.

The very idea of something neatly in one tag or a folder, suddenly being put into another that has a broad variety (like a collage) is OCD triggering. Another reason I'm against it. Like I said, turning a good thing bad.

Another thing I should clarify, I'm here defending Hybrid Species that can fill up a page or 3, that's a lot of a hybrid species in art.
If said hybrid species has like 1 or 5 pics, I really could not care more, chock them away sure, idc. But it's the WHOLE 1 through 5 etc pages long that's a big fat NO to me

like this one:
create alias salugia -> hybrid
WHY? That has a good chunk of art, that's a whole page of this hybrid, no! I don't agree with just adding it to hybrid, imply it instead and that could be one of MANY examples lost in the pokemon, digimon, or whatever mass monster collective.

closetpossum said:
what are you talking about? That's irrelevant to me, I don't care about naming conventions! I care about where the art is.
I'm not WRONG and you're not RIGHT, it's a matter of both opinion and perspectives.

The very idea of something neatly in one tag or a folder, suddenly being put into another that has a broad variety (like a collage) is OCD triggering. Another reason I'm against it. Like I said, turning a good thing bad.

It's extremely interesting to me that you first state people will intuitively know the tag for any given hybrid, and then state "I don't care about naming conventions". How does that work out? How is it that a person using e621 "would most likely know the hybrid species name they're looking for"?

Truth is, these fictional hybrids are often equivalent to character tags, and even if each and every meaningless little fictional hybrid were to keep its own tag, that'd be an explosion of implications that have to be approved. I spent $20 on a dumb thing I'm gonna call "Gengatias", please imply hybrid and gengar and latias thankies! XOXOXOXO I'll be back next week with another smash hit: Tropirhana Plant. The typo is intentional. :)

lafcadio said:
It's extremely interesting to me that you first state people will intuitively know the tag for any given hybrid, and then state "I don't care about naming conventions". How does that work out? How is it that a person using e621 "would most likely know the hybrid species name they're looking for"?

Truth is, these fictional hybrids are often equivalent to character tags, and even if each and every meaningless little fictional hybrid were to keep its own tag, that'd be an explosion of implications that have to be approved. I spent $20 on a dumb thing I'm gonna call "Gengatias", please imply hybrid and gengar and latias thankies! XOXOXOXO I'll be back next week with another smash hit: Tropirhana Plant. The typo is intentional. :)

as for your question: It's extremely interesting to me that you first state people will intuitively know the tag for any given hybrid, and then state "I don't care about naming conventions". How does that work out? How is it that a person using e621 "would most likely know the hybrid species name they're looking for"?

The individual would frequent the tag. I cannot speak for everyone, but if a person knows what they like to see, chances are they know the tag from memory.

Also, your example: I spent $20 on a dumb thing I'm gonna call "Gengatias"

implies that you'd only have one art of it, which I stated earlier, idc about hybrid fusions with 1 art piece, I care about the hybrid species that have a whole page full of that specific hybrid fusion. So your example is also irrelevant to me. That can get chocked into the hybrid pile and get lost. You also made it seem like it was OC oriented, as I stated earlier, it's not just some one-off person making an OC, it can be a collective of the same fusion being created. Not just a person who wants to make something "special" which some people are BASED to believe.

but hybrid fusions with A PAGE or pages worth should at least be together. You're not really offering an alternative and kinda just being snarky here.
But you did say one thing I agree with and it's the thing I ALREADY DO

"imply hybrid and gengar and latias thankies!"

I see no problem with this and this is depending on the individuals who choose to do this. I am one such individual and I would only do this if I know that one hybrid fusion can FILL A PAGE or two. If not, I wouldn't tag their supposed fusion name. This would apply to pokemon, digimon, and any other monster-like collective games.

So simply implying that the fusion belongs to the two should signify what the species is in their own tag as well as what made the species. Regardless of its form.

IT'S LITERALLY THE SAME
as tagging a character cosplaying another character even though that character isn't present, because they're cosplaying the other
or
those images that have three characters being fused to make another? Well? Who do you tag? All the characters that MADE the hybrid

closetpossum said:
then what other alternative are you giving people? Getting rid of the names by merging them with the hybrid tag. Can't add them to character, what else is there to do in order to preserve?

As mentioned before, searching something like mew quilava hybrid. Sure, maybe you'd get a few false positives, but not so much that it'd make it hard to see the kind of hybrid you're looking for.

closetpossum said:
what are you talking about? That's irrelevant to me, I don't care about naming conventions! I care about where the art is.

Then who dictates what a given hybrid looks like? If we take mewlava for example, what authority says whether it looks like a mew-colored quilava, a quilava-colored mew, a mew-tailed quilava, a mew with quilava-like flame vents, etc? All of these are a fusion of mew and quilava, all designed completely differently, but all would be under the same tag. Heck, even the aforementioned Emmy has two forms of hybridization, a "suppressed" form that's more quilava-like and an "unsuppressed" form that's more mew-like. And then you'd have some people who don't even think to give their hybrid character a unique species name and just tag mew quilava hybrid, so mewlava doesn't find all the mew+quilava hybrids that mew quilava hybrid does. So how does the mewlava tag help you find the particular art you're looking for?

watsit said:
As mentioned before, searching something like mew quilava hybrid. Sure, maybe you'd get a few false positives, but not so much that it'd make it hard to see the kind of hybrid you're looking for.

For perspective here, the search mew quilava hybrid -mewlava currently returns 3 results, two of which appear to be of a different Mew/Quilava hybrid that wasn't tagged "mewlava", and only one appears in the results because it coincidentally contains all three of a Mew, a Quilava, and a hybrid. (The hybrid in question is actually the same character as the Quilava, and is tagged "sandlava". There's another one for the list.)

closetpossum said:
how is that fixing the issue when OP is aliasing the hybrid species tags into hybrid instead of implying? This isn't a "fix" it's merging. The point you were just trying to make is mute.

It’s solving the problem because all the mewlava posts already contain both mew and quilava, but many lack hybrid. So if mewlava is aliased to hybrid, you’ll now be able to find all the mewlava posts (plus others of the same two species who weren’t given the name mewlava) just by searching mew quilava hybrid.

You make it seem like you’ll have to sift through thousands of images to find that particular hybrid. Try clicking on that search like I put in my post. Only one page of results, and they’re basically all mewlava.

closetpossum said:

then what other alternative are you giving people? Getting rid of the names by merging them with the hybrid tag. Can't add them to character, what else is there to do in order to preserve?

Like I said above, quite a lot of these hybrids actually are characters, and can get a character tag. I don’t think watsit is suggesting to get rid of the character tags. I think this elucidates the character tag issue, in case you missed it:

scaliespe said:
Well, that’s not exactly what I meant. It would have to be something that was actually made to be a character, sure—but if the same exact design has been drawn more than once, especially if by the same artist, chances are that it is a character. That’s why I initially said you could apply a character tag to all the posts featuring an identical hybrid design. Not different designs for a hybrid of the same two species, however. The only ones here who are not characters are most likely just one-off drawings, and even those are sometimes given a name. mewlava_(character) was just an example, with mewlava to be replaced by the character’s actual name, and (character) to be replaced by the character’s owner. Though, it is worth noting that sometimes the hybrid character’s name is a portmanteau of the component species, as in the case of dragonchu_(character) (Dragonair x Pikachu hybrid).

Of course, you can’t just make a character where there isn’t one, or to unify different hybrid designs of the same two species. It does have to at least be the same design, and probably by the same artist, though not always, as sometimes multiple artists may be drawing the same character. It does seem that most of these hybrid species actually contain characters that are just missing the character tag, however.

I should also note that there have been cases where an artist draws what is clearly meant to be a character, though the character is never formally given a name. One example is rose_(spotty_the_cheetah). The artist had drawn this character several times over the years, and you can tell from the design that it definitely is a character—a consistent, specific design, that is. It wasn’t until the last drawing of the character that she was finally given a name by the artist, though still none of the posts had a character tag—so I created the tag and applied it to all the drawings. But even had that not happened, I’d think a character tag would be justified in helping people to find and identify the character, even one lacking a formal name.

scaliespe said:
Like I said above, quite a lot of these hybrids actually are characters, and can get a character tag. I don’t think watsit is suggesting to get rid of the character tags.

Right. I just meant don't blindly replace the hybrid species tags with character tags. Make sure it's an actual character, try to get a proper character name, and don't use the same character tag for different characters that happen to be the same species hybrid. Basically don't treat the character tag as if it was the species tag.

Say you get a couple of lopunny-gardevoir characters, you can use fuzzy searches to find images with all of them.
~character_a ~character_b ~character_c will find images with any of the characters from the same hybrid. You can then run hybrid lopunny gardevoir from time to time to watch for new characters that pop up with similar features.

furrin_gok said:
Say you get a couple of lopunny-gardevoir characters, you can use fuzzy searches to find images with all of them.
~character_a ~character_b ~character_c will find images with any of the characters from the same hybrid. You can then run hybrid lopunny gardevoir from time to time to watch for new characters that pop up with similar features.

I suppose I just want to be vocal about my opposition to this. I'm just a minority and this is gonna pass anyway.
I just want to be able to type as little as possible in the search and be able to find what I want as close to one-click as possible

cause of this, there will be times where I have to click more than I used to. That's such a drag.

rip, minimal effort, my hybrids will now require three words instead of one and that's not even a guaranteed fix.
post #1186035

You took all my hybrid Pokemons, now I'm gonna starve.
That interaction made me remember this clip from Patrick. xD

I'll admit, I haven't read over all of the posts in this, I just wanted to voice my concern / opinion over this real quick.

Do I think all these individual names should be aliased away? Yes. Do I think they should be aliased to hybrid? No. I'm still of the mind that there should be some tag that implies hybrid, that covers all of these pokemon hybrids. Even if it's just some generic "copyright species hybrid", and not just specific to Pokemon (because I would like something to cover Digimon or any other number of species in copyrighted media as well).

Largely because sometimes people take their normal animal hybrid OCs and slot them into copyright-related art and I feel like a tag like this would help differentiate when the hybrid is specifically some kind of copyrighted species (like Pokemon), or just someone's random wolf-dragon hybrid or whatever.

vulkalu said:
I'll admit, I haven't read over all of the posts in this, I just wanted to voice my concern / opinion over this real quick.

Do I think all these individual names should be aliased away? Yes. Do I think they should be aliased to hybrid? No. I'm still of the mind that there should be some tag that implies hybrid, that covers all of these pokemon hybrids. Even if it's just some generic "copyright species hybrid", and not just specific to Pokemon (because I would like something to cover Digimon or any other number of species in copyrighted media as well).

Largely because sometimes people take their normal animal hybrid OCs and slot them into copyright-related art and I feel like a tag like this would help differentiate when the hybrid is specifically some kind of copyrighted species (like Pokemon), or just someone's random wolf-dragon hybrid or whatever.

Something like fictional_hybrid? Could work, perhaps.

scaliespe said:
Something like fictional_hybrid? Could work, perhaps.

That could easily be confused for a hybrid that is itself fictional (such as a folf or cheetox), rather than one made up of at least one fictional creature.

scaliespe said:
Something like fictional_hybrid? Could work, perhaps.

There's already been a whole discussion on this topic, plus a BUR (which I supported, BTW).

watsit said:
That could easily be confused for a hybrid that is itself fictional (such as a folf or cheetox), rather than one made up of at least one fictional creature.

ya just want to 1984 the whole thing to hybrid don'tcha.
Just newspeak it all, eff individuality, eff pages of certain hybrids, just dump them all in one place
like a used toy box.
god dang...

People ought to name the species they are.
If this gets passed it'll be the same for all the others out there. You're already trying to get rid of the Salugia tag.

post #1186035

closetpossum said:
ya just want to 1984 the whole thing to hybrid don'tcha.

... what?

closetpossum said:
People ought to name the species they are.

Find an official definition for these species from Nintendo/TPC, and we can talk. But as it is, these are just some pet-names people came up with and have no set design.

watsit said:
That could easily be confused for a hybrid that is itself fictional (such as a folf or cheetox), rather than one made up of at least one fictional creature.

It could, yeah, but a wiki page and a series of implications could ensure that it gets used correctly. I just couldn’t think of any better name for the tag.

wat8548 said:
There's already been a whole discussion on this topic, plus a BUR (which I supported, BTW).

Huh, I never saw that. I like this idea.

watsit said:
... what?

Find an official definition for these species from Nintendo/TPC, and we can talk. But as it is, these are just some pet-names people came up with and have no set design.

idk, does Salugia not have a set design to you, or is this just your opinion.
Honestly, I believe you jumped the gun here. You're just eliminating them, not even implying, or changing them to maybe a character or general. And like you said there are many out there
but it's clear you want to be rid of them.

Also, have you never read 1984 or know what newspeak is? Missing out, cause that's what it feels like here, in a sense of getting rid of tags. Instead the difference it that you're generalizing them to one word rather than simplifying it.
Literally, this BUR is just one big opinion, it's unfair, can't even argue against this when it comes down to a vote.

why am I the only one who's frustrated about the fact that putting such tags into hybrid makes it difficult to find these images together? If it's no concern to you it's simply the fact that nobody cares.
You call this a "fix"? There are 750 pages in hybrid and adding ~ only reduces the number but the problem is still there, can't even make a tag to help put or separate hybrids because a BUR like this will just be made to ruin it all.

And your reasoning? Not official by the creator? Naming convention? It was made by someone or a community that agreed on a design unanimously or an individual who made their own design based on another. If I made a species by combining two animals together and decided to name the species NOT as a character, would you just alias it away?
This rubs me the wrong way. It ought to be IMPLY

You don't even know who these are they may very well be characters named as species!

closetpossum said:
idk, does Salugia not have a set design to you, or is this just your opinion.

Salugia doesn't have a set design because there's no official source for it. Someone made a salazzle+lugia fusion, someone called it "salugia", and others jumped on the bandwagon. But ultimately, "salugia" can be for any salazzle+lugia fusion, not just that one design the name came from. It's not an official species, so everyone would be free to do what they want with the species name.

closetpossum said:
Honestly, I believe you jumped the gun here. You're just eliminating them, not even implying, or changing them to maybe a character or general.

Implications can only work if the tag stays, and the point is to get rid of them since they have no official basis. A species isn't a character, there's no indication all "salugia" are the same character, so the tag can't be aliased to a character. And even in cases where a species is used exclusively for a specific character, such as mewlava, a proper name is already tagged so this can be aliased away to hybrid (in case someone else tries to use it for a different mew+quilava hybrid character).

closetpossum said:
Also, have you never read 1984 or know what newspeak is? Missing out, cause that's what it feels like here, in a sense of getting rid of tags.

That is some extreme hyperbole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
[...] Orwell's ninth and final book completed in his lifetime. Thematically, it centres on the consequences of totalitarianism, mass surveillance and repressive regimentation of people and behaviours within society. Orwell, a democratic socialist, modelled the totalitarian government in the novel after Stalinist Russia and Nazi Germany. More broadly, the novel examines the role of truth and facts within politics and the ways in which they are manipulated.

Equating that to aliasing away some vague unofficial fan-created species names is quite a stretch. No one is saying you can't call your hybrid a salugia or mewlava or lucazeraorark or whatever you can think up, just that it doesn't have a place in being a tag.

closetpossum said:
idk, does Salugia not have a set design to you, or is this just your opinion.

post #2072491 - pink visor, long pink "wings", long ribbon-like-tails
post #2980514 - as above, but wings are much shorter, and neck is much longer
post #2116495 - white visor, short white "wings", single tail without the extra ribbon-like extensions that are typical of salazzle
this FurAffinity upload - white body, extremely long pink wings, no apparent visor, completely different character
There is no "set design", and nothing stopping another interpretation having wildly different features, such as say, a white-and-blue body with smaller hands, and multiple sets of ribbon-like tails where Lugia's wings would be.

closetpossum said:
You don't even know who these are they may very well be characters named as species!

If we want to treat these tags as character tags, then post #2116495 doesn't need the salugia tag. I'm not currently at the point where I care to put any further effort into seeing if any more of these can be reasonably made into character tags, but start from there instead of going all balls-to-the-wall with these wack-ass 1984 comparisons, or start making Sets for your hyper-specific Pokemon hybrid combos while you still have the chance to search for these tags.

watsit said:
Salugia doesn't have a set design because there's no official source for it. Someone made a salazzle+lugia fusion, someone called it "salugia", and others jumped on the bandwagon. But ultimately, "salugia" can be for any salazzle+lugia fusion, not just that one design the name came from. It's not an official species, so everyone would be free to do what they want with the species name.

if it's enough to make a bandwagon then it ought to be enough to get a character tag?
There are species tagged as characters. I cannot stand your reasoning. This BUR is frustrating.
It doesn't just mean that Pokemon fusions don't get to have their own species tags no matter how many pics are put into it. But all others like this, i.e Digimon and others.
Not even a damn general, nothing! There's not even a damn compromise.

And if anyone were to go against they'd probably get hit with a neutral for tag abuse.
This is frustrating, when I think of future pics that may contain fusions I can't even tag their species. Such Bull!

lafcadio said:

If we want to treat these tags as character tags, then post #2116495 doesn't need the salugia tag. I'm not currently at the point where I care to put any further effort into seeing if any more of these can be reasonably made into character tags, but start from there instead of going all balls-to-the-wall with these wack-ass 1984 comparisons, or start making Sets for your hyper-specific Pokemon hybrid combos while you still have the chance to search for these tags.

I shouldn't have to waste a set when they should be tagged.
It shouldn't have to be finite they could be set to characters. In the OP some of them ARE characters

closetpossum said:
I shouldn't have to waste a set when they should be tagged.

Oh nooooo, you're only allowed to make six sets per hour!

It's a tragedy, really.

lafcadio said:
Oh nooooo, you're only allowed to make six sets per hour!

It's a tragedy, really.

what is up with your attitude can you not engage normally
or must you always try to piss off people you disagree with
With your charming sarcasm?

I find my suggestion to be reasonable, it's only bs when the mentality is:
It's either official or it doesn't even deserve to be named

closetpossum said:
if it's enough to make a bandwagon then it ought to be enough to get a character tag?

Not if it's not the same character. A character gets a character tag, and multiple drawings of the same character use the character tag. A species is not a character, so multiple drawings of the same or similar species with no indication of them being the same character, doesn't get a character tag.

closetpossum said:
There are species tagged as characters.

There shouldn't be. Species and characters are different. A character is who someone is, a species is what someone is. A character can be depicted as different species, and a species can depict different characters.

watsit said:
Not if it's not the same character. A character gets a character tag, and multiple drawings of the same character use the character tag. A species is not a character, so multiple drawings of the same or similar species with no indication of them being the same character, doesn't get a character tag.

There shouldn't be. Species and characters are different. A character is who someone is, a species is what someone is. A character can be depicted as different species, and a species can depict different characters.

yeah? And what if a species is a character?
Like every Digimon out there as well as...pokemon?
It's no different with hybrid pokemon or digimons.

what you do...is tag what their species is and hybrid
But you and the people that upvoted seem to disagree.

closetpossum said:
yeah? And what if a species is a character?
Like every dang Digimon out there as well as...pokemon?

They can't be. At most, you have a species and a character sharing a name, but they're two distinct uses. A character that is of the zoroark species can have any name, while a character named Zoroark can be any species. Two drawings of the same species doesn't make them the same character by default.

watsit said:
They can't be. At most, you have a species and a character sharing a name, but they're two distinct uses. A character that is of the zoroark species can have any name, while a character named Zoroark can be any species. Two drawings of the same species doesn't make them the same character by default.

and a Zoroark named Zoroark?
or how about Ash's pikachu?

characters can be named a species. You act like it's impossible

closetpossum said:
and a Zoroark named Zoroark?
or how about Ash's pikachu?

characters can be named a species. You act like it's impossible

... that's what I just said. "At most, you have a species and a character sharing a name, but they're two distinct uses". A zoroark named Zoroark doesn't stop being a zoroark if they get renamed Joe, and a zoroark named Zoroark doesn't lose their Zoroark name when they appear as a human. But you don't tag the zoroark species if you don't see anyone that is a zoroark in the image. Characters get unique names separate from their species for tagging purposes; for example Grovyle from Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky is a grovyle named Grovyle. When an image is known to depict that specific character, it gets the character tag Grovyle the Thief to distinguish him from the grovyle species.

watsit said:
... that's what I just said. "At most, you have a species and a character sharing a name, but they're two distinct uses". A zoroark named Zoroark doesn't stop being a zoroark if they get renamed Joe, and a zoroark named Zoroark doesn't lose their Zoroark name when they appear as a human. But you don't tag the zoroark species if you don't see anyone that is a zoroark in the image. Characters get unique names separate from their species for tagging purposes; for example Grovyle from Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky is a grovyle named Grovyle. When an image is known to depict that specific character, it gets the character tag Grovyle the Thief to distinguish him from the grovyle species.

I personally know a few Digimons and Pokemon characters named after their own species that conflict with your reasoning.
I don't agree with this BUR, what little good that'll do me. I just hope you guys will leave the ones that are clearly characters (despite being named their species) alone.
There's nothing else for me to say. I do not like this BUR I disagree with it.

closetpossum said:
I personally know a few Digimons and Pokemon characters named after their own species that conflict with your reasoning.
I don't agree with this BUR, what little good that'll do me. I just hope you guys will leave the ones that are clearly characters (despite being named their species) alone.
There's nothing else for me to say. I do not like this BUR I disagree with it.

They might "conflict with our reasoning" but our rules win out in the end, and they get named <species>_(<creator>) instead. If they don't, they get lost in the ocean of <species>, because that isn't a character tag.

The bulk update request #987 (forum #311476) has been approved by @gattonero2001.

The bulk update request #3887 is active.

create alias sonichu_(species) (0) -> hybrid (147283)

Reason: Now to handle generic sonichu hybrids (not the actual character).

EDIT: The bulk update request #3887 (forum #354372) has been approved by @gattonero2001.

The bulk update request #3892 is active.

create alias sandlava (0) -> hybrid (147283)

Reason: Mentioned this earlier but it never got added to the BUR. 49 posts at time of writing.

Also, while I'm here, I just want to put in a good word for topic #29990.

EDIT: The bulk update request #3892 (forum #354407) has been approved by @gattonero2001.

The bulk update request #4020 is active.

create alias vaporunny (0) -> hybrid (147283)

Reason: Found another one.

EDIT: The bulk update request #4020 (forum #356123) has been approved by @gattonero2001.

The bulk update request #3887 (forum #354372) has been approved by @gattonero2001.

The bulk update request #3892 (forum #354407) has been approved by @gattonero2001.

The bulk update request #4020 (forum #356123) has been approved by @gattonero2001.

The bulk update request #4045 is active.

create alias loporeon (0) -> hybrid (147283)

Reason: Yet another one has popped up.

We should try to find a better way to handle these so trying to type in any pokemon name don't all suggest "hybrid" as the first highest-count suggestion.

EDIT: The bulk update request #4045 (forum #356473) has been approved by @slyroon.

watsit said:
We should try to find a better way to handle these so trying to type in any pokemon name don't all suggest "hybrid" as the first highest-count suggestion.

What if they aliased to pokemon instead of hybrid? I know that's not standard practice for hybrids but if this becomes a problem, maybe standard practice would need to change.

cloudpie said:
What if they aliased to pokemon instead of hybrid? I know that's not standard practice for hybrids but if this becomes a problem, maybe standard practice would need to change.

The problem is the generic alias taking precedence over the pokemon name you're trying to type. E.g. if I'm trying to tag or search vaporeon, and type in vap, vapo, or vapor, the first autocompletion result to come up is the "vaporunny" alias since "hybrid" has a larger use count than "vaporeon". Changing it to "pokemon" won't really help since the pokemon tag also has a larger use count than "vaporeon". I have to type out vapore for the autocomplete to no longer match the alias and have the intended vaporeon, at which point it's only two letters away from typing it out manually, which defeats the purpose of autocompletion.

Similar things now happen with lucario (luca matches the lucachu alias first, I need to type in lucar for the autocomplete to match lucario, which is only two letters away), zoroark (zoro matches the zorocario alias, where zoroa gets by the alias but is only two letters away), zorua (zoru matches the zorupix alias, you need to type the full name), pikachu (the full pikachu matches the pikachumbreon alias), etc. The more we try to alias away peoples' oh-so-unique pokemon hybrid names, the less functional autocomplete will be with pokemon.

watsit said:
Similar things now happen with lucario (luca matches the lucachu alias first, I need to type in lucar for the autocomplete to match lucario, which is only two letters away), zoroark (zoro matches the zorocario alias, where zoroa gets by the alias but is only two letters away), zorua (zoru matches the zorupix alias, you need to type the full name), pikachu (the full pikachu matches the pikachumbreon alias), etc. The more we try to alias away peoples' oh-so-unique pokemon hybrid names, the less functional autocomplete will be with pokemon.

I think this would be better fixed by tweaks to the autocomplete rather than changing our entire tagging standard to accommodate it. It's hardly the only uncommon alias which causes this problem. My preferred solution would be to have a dedicated section for proposed aliases at the bottom of the menu, instead of lumping everything into one sorted list. That way it's still reasonably obvious when you're about to type something wrong and the correct answer is only one more keypress away, but it's impossible for aliases with large targets to disrupt the site well beyond their original usage.

wat8548 said:
My preferred solution would be to have a dedicated section for proposed aliases at the bottom of the menu, instead of lumping everything into one sorted list.

Yeah, I remember suggesting something like that a couple times in the past (along with a suggestion to have a minimum number of non-alias completion results, to avoid low-use-but-valid tags getting flooded out of the auto complete list by a bunch of aliases). I have no idea how easy it is to do though, and I don't think the admins have said whether they want to or can do it.

watsit said:
I have no idea how easy it is to do though, and I don't think the admins have said whether they want to or can do it.

In theory you could do it entirely client-side, as long as you're willing to concede one fewer non-alias result in the main part of the menu. Shouldn't be too big a deal, since in most practical scenarios the problem is the tag you want showing up at number 2, not that it would otherwise have shown up at number 10.

I can think of one notable edge case, though: when I go to type out the character name "Blake", the first four letters make the autocomplete completely fill up with these.

The bulk update request #4045 (forum #356473) has been approved by @slyroon.

Why not alias to hybrid_pokemon (or maybe use pokemon_hybrid) instead? That way it's not going to top the results, and it would be more specific.