The wiki page for forced oral contains the phrase “It is sometimes a nonconsensual act of rape, but also happens to be a common theme in domination/submission sex.”

It seems like this is stating that consensual acts involving facefucking should be tagged forced_oral, which is an issue for two reasons:

1. The “facefucking” tag already exists, as well as the bondage tag. This is a seemingly redundant tag, as “facefucking” and “facefucking bondage” encompasses nearly the entirety of the posts that would be tagged with this definition.

2. Forced_oral is set to automatically imply the forced tag, which is explicitly only for nonconsent “This tag refers to any work in which a character is made to do something they do not want to do by another character. The unwanted action can be either sexual or nonsexual.” This leads to consensual bondage being tagged as nonconsensual, which hides a lot of good content behind blacklists.

I think the best way to fix this is to rework forced_oral to only include oral that’s forced, which is how most people seem to apply it anyways. The same should be done for reverse_forced_oral, forced_anal, and reverse_forced_anal.

It’s very confusing for only 4 “forced” tags to have little to do with the forced tag, and it only exacerbates the problems with incorrect tagging of rape.

I’m currently holding off on changing the wiki entries and suggesting the reverse_forced_anal -> forced implication. If one of those falls through, it will create further issues. I will try this if this forum post doesn’t gain steam.

I guess this makes sense, but which name would be good for a tag in which there's forced_oral, but looks consensual (or questionable_consent)? You are kinda physically forcing the head, even though it could just a BDSM thing.

I tried to come up with a term to be more neutral... Maybe guided_oral? And then you could use either forced or questionable_consent with it to get the equivalent of forced_oral? Or just rework it to be always without consent.

Edit: the forced_oral wiki was changed yesterday to always be about forced sex, basing it in the implication.
So I guess there's no much of a choice anymore besides creating a new tag.

Also, looks like the guided_* tags have pattern of the penetrated (or someone else) guiding the penetrator. So I think guided_oral might be misleading. Still out of ideas, and the other tag was already changed...

omegaumbra said:
Also, looks like the guided_* tags have pattern of the penetrated (or someone else) guiding the penetrator. So I think guided_oral might be misleading. Still out of ideas, and the other tag was already changed...

I'm testing out involuntary_* for this purpose. So involuntary_orgasm if the character has no control, but add forced_orgasm if they're against it.

Current tags I'm trying are involuntary_penetration (character is penetrating whether they want to or not), involuntary_cowgirl (penetrated character is on top, but without control-- this was a tough one to name), and involuntary_orgasm (which used to only mean "orgasm without any stimulation," and I'm kind of sad to change it from that meaning, but there's also hands-free).

schisse said:
I'm testing out involuntary_* for this purpose. So involuntary_orgasm if the character has no control, but add forced_orgasm if they're against it.

Hmm, I'm not sure that's a good fit. A character can voluntarily put themselves in a position where an orgasm will happen, but once the stimulation starts the character can't stop the orgasm from happening. Some forms of consensual BDSM can include this, where a character voluntarily puts themselves at the mercy of someone else, and once that other character takes control, there's no apparent means to back out.

I've actually been wanting to find a term for this in relation to transformations. Something like
post #2145531
where it's started voluntarily, or at least not obviously involuntarily, but once started there's no way to stop it.

watsit said:
I've actually been wanting to find a term for this in relation to transformations. Something like
post #2145531
where it's started voluntarily, or at least not obviously involuntarily, but once started there's no way to stop it.

I'm going for that, too. In a picture, you don't necessarily see the steps leading up to the situation, so I think it's okay to call that involuntary_* since you're talking about the moment captured in the picture. For wait-I-changed-my-mind situations, I think you'd be better served by a "vernacular" tag like until they like it. (Looks like someone has tried until they hate it...?)

Apparently I'm a dumbass that didn't realize that face fucking was a tag already. forced_oral should probably imply it.

Edit: this was even said in the first post, this is embarrassing 😬

omegaumbra said:
Apparently I'm a dumbass that didn't realize that face fucking was a tag already. forced_oral should probably imply it.

Forced oral doesn't necessarily mean face fucking is happening. Face fucking is "when there is active thrusting into a character's mouth", whereas forced oral is forcing someone to perform oral, there doesn't have to be any thrusting into a character's mouth for it to be forced. In some cases, it may be logically impossible, considering forced cunnilingus or forced rimming are both forced oral acts and definitely not face fucking.

watsit said:
Forced oral doesn't necessarily mean face fucking is happening. Face fucking is "when there is active thrusting into a character's mouth", whereas forced oral is forcing someone to perform oral, there doesn't have to be any thrusting into a character's mouth for it to be forced. In some cases, it may be logically impossible, considering forced cunnilingus or forced rimming are both forced oral acts and definitely not face fucking.

Yeah, I realized this after some thought. I thought forced_oral was like a subset of face fucking , but a tag like this would be meaningless when you could just face_fucking forced.

And forced_oral has more use cases than that. I guess this thread is already over.