The tag alias #55178 hairband -> alice_band has been rejected.

Reason: The reason I suggest this is because a lot of people seem to mistakenly tag "Hairband" when they mean to tag "Hair Tie" and I feel that changing the name to "Alice band" (as it is referred to in the UK) might be less vague to people. If you search for the tags "Ponytail" + "Hairband", you'll see what I mean. Nearly all of them are actually wearing hair ties. As another example, there are many more "Lola Bunny" images tagged with "Hairband" instead of "Hair Tie", despite the fact that she's wearing the latter in each one of them.

For those who don't know or didn't read the "Hairband" tag description, it refers to the type of horseshoe shaped hairband that Alice from Alice in Wonderland popularized (thus the term "Alice band".) Another character who commonly wears them would be Amy Rose from Sonic.
A Hair Tie, on the other hand, is what one would wear to pull up your hair (or ears) into a ponytail.

Also, a headband is different, as that usually goes across the forehead and is sometimes used to push hair back, which is not the purpose of a hairband/Alice band.

EDIT: The tag alias hairband -> alice_band (forum #320634) has been rejected by @bitWolfy.

"Alice Band" sounds like a character name. I'd rather use a term like horseshoe_hairband.

Hairband and Hair Tie are being used interchangeably as if they are one and the same.
But to call hairband as Alice Bands is just ludicrous.
It shouldn't be called something with a NAME in it and it seems rather unnecessary since it goes against the actual general universal name for the product produced.
Like phones, if I saw a character using a phone I'll tag the phone, I'm not going to start tagging the BRAND of the phone. No, instead of coming up with a solution that ignores the problem by renaming the tag.

Why not hunker down and manually fix the entire tag...yourself.
From post to post, change and separate all Hairbands from Hair Ties.

If all else fails, that's what I would do. I did stuff like that before, with Spyro's Faun girl
and I'm still doing exactly that with separating the difference between Stirrup Socks, Stirrup Stockings and Toeless Socks, Toeless Stockings
Until my BUR gets approved.

furrin_gok said:
"Alice Band" sounds like a character name. I'd rather use a term like horseshoe_hairband.

I rather use the term "hairband" and nothing else. Unless it's a style. Then Horseshoe_Hairband if it actually looks like a horseshoe.
Hairband ought to remain UNCHANGED

Get rid of the "Hair Tie" posts from Hairbands,
logical solution, actual stability. Not OCD-inducing.
post #2774070

closetpossum said:
Why not hunker down and manually fix the entire tag...yourself.
From post to post, change and separate all Hairbands from Hair Ties.

Whoa, not sure what's up with the aggressive attitude. If you check my post changes, I actually WAS already doing that. I don't exactly have the free time to be working on that all day, though. The point in suggesting the change to the tag was so that people tagging are less likely to tag the wrong thing in the future.

Also,

closetpossum said:
But to call hairband as Alice Bands is just ludicrous.
It shouldn't be called something with a NAME in it and it seems rather unnecessary since it goes against the actual general universal name for the product produced.
Like phones, if I saw a character using a phone I'll tag the phone, I'm not going to start tagging the BRAND of the phone. No, instead of coming up with a solution that ignores the problem by renaming the tag.

By that logic, shouldn't we change the Band-aid tag to Adhesive Bandage? No one in the UK calls them band-aids, that's only an American colloquial.
The term "Alice band" isn't even a brand name or anything. And it's far from an uncommon term. Amazon, Walmart, etc. all have several listings for "Alice bands" or "Alice hair bands".

Furthermore, practically every dictionary has an entry for the term:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_band
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Alice_band
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Alice%20band
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/alice-band
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/alice-band
https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/alice-band
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/alice-band
https://www.lexico.com/definition/alice_band

On the flipside, only Cambridge has an entry for the term "hairband": https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/hairband
So I doubt there's really an universally agreed upon meaning for the term. Some people use it to mean what I would call an "alice band", others a "headband", and apparently a lot of people use it to mean "hair tie". Thus, the tag is vague, and should logically be changed to something less vague to avoid future confusion.

furrin_gok said:
I'd rather use a term like horseshoe_hairband.

I could see that working, although I've never actually heard it described as "horseshoe" shaped until I looked up the dictionary definition, and I'm not sure if it would be commonly understood.

famguy231 said:
By that logic, shouldn't we change the Band-aid tag to Adhesive Bandage? No one in the UK calls them band-aids, that's only an American colloquial.

Oh hey would you look at this, that's exactly what's being attempted.

famguy231 said:
Whoa, not sure what's up with the aggressive attitude. If you check my post changes, I actually WAS already doing that. I don't exactly have the free time to be working on that all day, though. The point in suggesting the change to the tag was so that people tagging are less likely to tag the wrong thing in the future.

Also,

By that logic, shouldn't we change the Band-aid tag to Adhesive Bandage? No one in the UK calls them band-aids, that's only an American colloquial.
The term "Alice band" isn't even a brand name or anything. And it's far from an uncommon term. Amazon, Walmart, etc. all have several listings for "Alice bands" or "Alice hair bands".

Furthermore, practically every dictionary has an entry for the term:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_band
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Alice_band
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Alice%20band
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/alice-band
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/alice-band
https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/alice-band
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/alice-band
https://www.lexico.com/definition/alice_band

On the flipside, only Cambridge has an entry for the term "hairband": https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/hairband
So I doubt there's really an universally agreed upon meaning for the term. Some people use it to mean what I would call an "alice band", others a "headband", and apparently a lot of people use it to mean "hair tie". Thus, the tag is vague, and should logically be changed to something less vague to avoid future confusion.

I could see that working, although I've never actually heard it described as "horseshoe" shaped until I looked up the dictionary definition, and I'm not sure if it would be commonly understood.

I wasn't "being aggressive" I was speaking my mind. If I'm not going to approve something I may as well say my reasoning, especially if it has to do with changing tags, I'm going to be vocal of course.
I just don't like the idea of drastically changing something when it can be fixed by simply hunkering down and fixing the tags manually.

I mean how many images have the two mixed up? I think 3k images could easily be fixed manually in a day and a half
I'm mostly opposed to calling it "Alice" I wouldn't want to tag headbands that have a NAME in them.
Headband has ambiguity, is easy to remember, easy to tag. Alice band, not easy to remember, will never tag it, will forget.

closetpossum said:
Headband has ambiguity, is easy to remember, easy to tag. Alice band, not easy to remember, will never tag it, will forget.

The hairband -> alice_band alias would help you remember. If you type in hairband, the site’s aliasing system will do the remembering for you.

scaliespe said:
The hairband -> alice_band alias would help you remember. If you type in hairband, the site’s aliasing system will do the remembering for you.

I get what you're saying, the alias would work.
But I got a better idea. How about we don't change it
in the first place. It ain't broke, don't "fix" it

The problem is the confused people who tagged "Hairband" instead of "Hair tie"
Some just don't know the difference. What does this solve?

As I said before, all you do is change the name but the problem will persist.
hairband and hair tie will still be used together. Instead, it'd just be alice band and hair tie being mistaken together.

The only way to actually fix this problem is to manually sith through the tags and change them to the correct tags.
Separating the two and properly explaining the differences within their wikis

Wish there was an easier way but it's just not that simple. As I also said, for example: stirrup socks is not the same as stirrup stockings yet they are used
as if they are the same thing interchangeably. The only way to properly fix this is to go through the pictures and fix the tags manually.
Because no matter how you change it, people cannot tell the differences.

It won't end. All you'll get is "ponytail" + "alice_band". Changed name but the problem has not. If you fix the problem and see as the number goes up, you are more likely to tag the correct tag than the one which name has change.

That's what I think anyway.
And I think my way really works. I've worked pretty long to fix the Stirrup tags and have a BUR in queue.
I've watched the tag like a hawk and see that people have tagged the stirrups_socks/stockings more correctly now since. If the numbers of the correct tag goes up
It gives way to more examples of the RIGHT Tag and people are more likely to tag it. You'd fix the problem eventually. It just takes a bit of effort.
post #2528421

closetpossum said:
I get what you're saying, the alias would work.
But I got a better idea. How about we don't change it
in the first place. It ain't broke, don't "fix" it

It is broke. People are mixing them up because they think "Hairband" means literally anything involving shaping your hair.

The problem is the confused people who tagged "Hairband" instead of "Hair tie"
Some just don't know the difference. What does this solve?

Something you even realized yourself!

As I said before, all you do is change the name but the problem will persist.
hairband and hair tie will still be used together. Instead, it'd just be alice band and hair tie being mistaken together.

Seeing your tag end up as something else can make it more obvious it wasn't what you thought it was... though like I said, Alice Band just sounds like a character name, which would cause more confusion than it should.

The only way to actually fix this problem is to manually sith through the tags and change them to the correct tags.
Separating the two and properly explaining the differences within their wikis

Wish there was an easier way but it's just not that simple. As I also said, for example: stirrup socks is not the same as stirrup stockings yet they are used
as if they are the same thing interchangeably. The only way to properly fix this is to go through the pictures and fix the tags manually.
Because no matter how you change it, people cannot tell the differences.

It won't end. All you'll get is "ponytail" + "alice_band". Changed name but the problem has not. If you fix the problem and see as the number goes up, you are more likely to tag the correct tag than the one which name has change.

That's what I think anyway.
And I think my way really works. I've worked pretty long to fix the Stirrup tags and have a BUR in queue.
I've watched the tag like a hawk and see that people have tagged the stirrups_socks/stockings more correctly now since. If the numbers of the correct tag goes up
It gives way to more examples of the RIGHT Tag and people are more likely to tag it. You'd fix the problem eventually. It just takes a bit of effort.
post #2528421

Your way does not and will not work. Why? Because it doesn't help people realize they tagged anything wrong. They don't see some magical replacement tag showing up to let them know what they were attempting to use got aliased. They won't be tempted to think about it, or if they're smarter, look into the wiki to get the right meaning of it. You need to alias a tag to make it obvious to people.

Right… like Furrin said, I don’t think anybody is going to mistake alice_band for a hair tie… the name being different from hairband will make that obvious. Either people know what an Alice band is, or they don’t and they’ll look it up. It’s not the same as hairband which is actually used interchangeably with hair tie or headband in some cases. I mean, where I’m from, these “Alice bands” were always just called headbands.

That being said, I also dislike the name Alice band. It does sound like a character. But I dislike the name hairband more, because it leads to ambiguity and mistagging.

If someone has a better name for this, I’d like to hear it.

Oh, just one more thing to make my point clear: searching hairband on Wikipedia redirects to hair tie! And just take a look at the article entitled headband.

scaliespe said:
Right… like Furrin said, I don’t think anybody is going to mistake alice_band for a hair tie… the name being different from hairband will make that obvious. Either people know what an Alice band is, or they don’t and they’ll look it up. It’s not the same as hairband which is actually used interchangeably with hair tie or headband in some cases. I mean, where I’m from, these “Alice bands” were always just called headbands.

That being said, I also dislike the name Alice band. It does sound like a character. But I dislike the name hairband more, because it leads to ambiguity and mistagging.

If someone has a better name for this, I’d like to hear it.

Oh, just one more thing to make my point clear: searching hairband on Wikipedia redirects to hair tie! And just take a look at the article entitled headband.

So hairbands include hair_ties, but headbands include those sweatbands that athletes wear above their eyebrows. headband_hairband? That way you specifically call out the one that fits both categories. Then that implies both separately.

furrin_gok said:
So hairbands include hair_ties, but headbands include those sweatbands that athletes wear above their eyebrows. headband_hairband? That way you specifically call out the one that fits both categories. Then that implies both separately.

That sounds… even more confusing.

furrin_gok said:
Oh hey would you look at this, that's exactly what's being attempted.

That's actually really funny to me. I'm pretty neutral about that honestly, I was just using that as an example.

furrin_gok said:
though like I said, Alice Band just sounds like a character name, which would cause more confusion than it should.

scaliespe said:
That being said, I also dislike the name Alice band. It does sound like a character. But I dislike the name hairband more, because it leads to ambiguity and mistagging.

I honestly don't think it sounds like a name, although I will concede that I'm likely biased due to literally everyone calling them alice bands where I'm from.
Even if it caused confusion at first, though, I don't think it would be that big of a deal since, as Furrin stated, people would be likely to just google it or check the tag description when they see the term if they don't recognize it.

I think at the moment, though, unless someone else can come up with a better term, "alice band" is still the most specific, clear, and recognizable option we have. I tried looking up "horseshoe hairband", which I thought was a pretty good choice, and I did get some correct results, but there were also plenty of regular headbands and even bandannas mixed in with the results so, I'm still not so sure about that one. (Incidentally, looking it up also did bring up many "alice band" results) "horseshoe shaped" seems to be a common descriptor, but not something people actually call it. Still though, horseshoe_hairband is probably our second best option from what I can tell, even if it is more vague. And I have to agree, headband_hairband is even more confusing.

famguy231 said:
That's actually really funny to me. I'm pretty neutral about that honestly, I was just using that as an example.

I honestly don't think it sounds like a name, although I will concede that I'm likely biased due to literally everyone calling them alice bands where I'm from.
Even if it caused confusion at first, though, I don't think it would be that big of a deal since, as Furrin stated, people would be likely to just google it or check the tag description when they see the term if they don't recognize it.

If they're smart, they'll look into it. A lot of e621 users aren't so clever, and would simply realize it's aliased and assume it's a character, and look for some other tag rather than looking into it.

I think at the moment, though, unless someone else can come up with a better term, "alice band" is still the most specific, clear, and recognizable option we have. I tried looking up "horseshoe hairband", which I thought was a pretty good choice, and I did get some correct results, but there were also plenty of regular headbands and even bandannas mixed in with the results so, I'm still not so sure about that one. (Incidentally, looking it up also did bring up many "alice band" results) "horseshoe shaped" seems to be a common descriptor, but not something people actually call it. Still though, horseshoe_hairband is probably our second best option from what I can tell, even if it is more vague. And I have to agree, headband_hairband is even more confusing.

Seeing plenty of proper results once I told google "Yes I did mean hairband not headband", but google also does give different results for each person.

furrin_gok said:
A lot of e621 users aren't so clever, and would simply realize it's aliased and assume it's a character, and look for some other tag rather than looking into it.

I feel like I probably should've thought of this earlier, but what if the tag was alice_hairband instead of just alice_band? It means the same thing and keeps the specificity, but also 'hairband' sounds less like a name. Unless you think that could still cause confusion?

famguy231 said:
I feel like I probably should've thought of this earlier, but what if the tag was alice_hairband instead of just alice_band? It means the same thing and keeps the specificity, but also 'hairband' sounds less like a name. Unless you think that could still cause confusion?

I think this would be preferable.

famguy231 said:
I feel like I probably should've thought of this earlier, but what if the tag was alice_hairband instead of just alice_band? It means the same thing and keeps the specificity, but also 'hairband' sounds less like a name. Unless you think that could still cause confusion?

Not exactly my preference, but acceptable.

Apologies if I'm missing something (I rarely use the forum) but is there a way to cancel this request to make a new one for alice_hairband instead? When I try requesting it I just receive an error (Error: Antecedent name has already been taken).

famguy231 said:
Apologies if I'm missing something (I rarely use the forum) but is there a way to cancel this request to make a new one for alice_hairband instead? When I try requesting it I just receive an error (Error: Antecedent name has already been taken).

A raw Alias or Implication request has to be denied by the administration. You can only deny your own requests if they're BURs.

The tag alias hairband -> alice_band (forum #320634) has been rejected by @bitWolfy.