Topic: Artist who wish to not be tagged shouldn't be aliased to invalid_tag but to anonymous_artist

Posted under General

ShadyGuy

Privileged

I'm going though a lot of old posts to add the proper artist tag, and sometimes the artist is aliased to invalid_tag because the artist doesn't want to be tagged for personal reasons.
These artists should IMO be aliased to anonymous_artist instead, because otherwise a lot of posts:
1. Get tagged with the correct artist tag
2. The tag is aliased to invalid_tag
3. The poster removes invalid_tag, leaving a post with no artist tags
4. Automatic tag scripts go though all arttags:0 posts and add unknown_artist

Which is annoying. anonymous_artist is perfect for the job: "For one reason or another, some people don't wish to be connected with a particular piece of art."

Thoughts?

Strikerman

Janitor

I agree in principle, but do you know for certain which artists (currently aliased to invalid_tag) want to be anonymous? I suspect a lot of them are aliased for other reasons.

Every artist currently aliased to invalid tag

MatrixMash

Privileged

strikerman said:
I agree in principle, but do you know for certain which artists (currently aliased to invalid_tag) want to be anonymous? I suspect a lot of them are aliased for other reasons.

Thank you for the list of artists. I wrote a scraper to go through and find aliases & BURs with matches (Don't worry Kira; I keep a local cache).

Here is the raw results, as a Python object:
{{'alliieennss': [{'antecedent_name': 'alliieennss',
                  'approver_id': None,
                  'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                  'created_at': '2013-02-11T18:42:05.036-05:00',
                  'creator_id': 19644,
                  'forum_post_id': None,
                  'forum_topic_id': None,
                  'id': 3751,
                  'post_count': 10,
                  'reason': 'artist requests his name not be used on the site',
                  'status': 'active',
                  'updated_at': None}],
 'cassandra_bruynseels': [{'antecedent_name': 'cassandra_bruynseels',
                           'approver_id': None,
                           'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                           'created_at': '2014-09-08T06:03:24.971-04:00',
                           'creator_id': 17633,
                           'forum_post_id': None,
                           'forum_topic_id': None,
                           'id': 4988,
                           'post_count': 10,
                           'reason': 'https://e621.net/takedown/show/2688',
                           'status': 'active',
                           'updated_at': None}],
 'chirmaya_(colorist)': [{'antecedent_name': 'chirmaya_(colorist)',
                          'approver_id': None,
                          'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                          'created_at': '2019-03-27T10:01:21.893-04:00',
                          'creator_id': 17633,
                          'forum_post_id': None,
                          'forum_topic_id': None,
                          'id': 20858,
                          'post_count': 10,
                          'reason': "Bucket fill doesn't count.",
                          'status': 'active',
                          'updated_at': None}],
 'erin_middendorf': [{'antecedent_name': 'erin_middendorf',
                      'approver_id': None,
                      'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                      'created_at': '2012-02-20T14:42:05.923-05:00',
                      'creator_id': 19644,
                      'forum_post_id': None,
                      'forum_topic_id': None,
                      'id': 3041,
                      'post_count': 10,
                      'reason': 'requests that their real name be unavailable '
                                'for use as a tag',
                      'status': 'active',
                      'updated_at': None}],
 'felicity_longis': [{'approver_id': 17633,
                      'created_at': '2021-02-22T13:40:41.983-05:00',
                      'forum_post_id': None,
                      'forum_topic_id': None,
                      'id': 708,
                      'script': 'alias felicity_longis -> invalid_tag',
                      'status': 'approved',
                      'title': 'Dmail #1424882',
                      'updated_at': '2021-02-22T13:41:16.083-05:00',
                      'user_id': 17633},
                     {'antecedent_name': 'felicity_longis',
                      'approver_id': 17633,
                      'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                      'created_at': '2021-02-22T13:41:15.934-05:00',
                      'creator_id': 17633,
                      'forum_post_id': None,
                      'forum_topic_id': None,
                      'id': 50910,
                      'post_count': 10,
                      'reason': '',
                      'status': 'active',
                      'updated_at': '2021-02-22T13:42:22.643-05:00'},
                     {'antecedent_name': 'felicity_longis_(character)',
                      'approver_id': None,
                      'consequent_name': 'fox',
                      'created_at': '2020-09-27T16:30:16.526-04:00',
                      'creator_id': 5947,
                      'descendant_names': ['canid', 'canine', 'fox', 'mammal'],
                      'forum_post_id': 296735,
                      'forum_topic_id': 27433,
                      'id': 34200,
                      'reason': '',
                      'status': 'deleted',
                      'updated_at': '2020-09-28T02:47:25.112-04:00'}],
 'james_sheehan': [{'antecedent_name': 'james_sheehan',
                    'approver_id': None,
                    'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                    'created_at': '2014-02-24T00:06:45.674-05:00',
                    'creator_id': 17633,
                    'forum_post_id': None,
                    'forum_topic_id': None,
                    'id': 4614,
                    'post_count': 10,
                    'reason': 'https://e621.net/takedown/show/2150',
                    'status': 'active',
                    'updated_at': None}],
 'jocelyn_dunn': [{'antecedent_name': 'jocelyn_dunn',
                   'approver_id': None,
                   'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                   'created_at': '2012-02-21T03:55:00.563-05:00',
                   'creator_id': 19644,
                   'forum_post_id': None,
                   'forum_topic_id': None,
                   'id': 3042,
                   'post_count': 10,
                   'reason': 'artist requests real name not be used',
                   'status': 'active',
                   'updated_at': None}],
 'kaylie_prefontaine': [{'antecedent_name': 'kaylie_prefontaine',
                         'approver_id': None,
                         'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                         'created_at': '2012-07-18T01:13:22.501-04:00',
                         'creator_id': 19644,
                         'forum_post_id': None,
                         'forum_topic_id': None,
                         'id': 3281,
                         'post_count': 10,
                         'reason': "artist doesn't want their real name used "
                                   'on the site',
                         'status': 'active',
                         'updated_at': None}],
 'laura_westrate': [{'antecedent_name': 'laura_westrate',
                     'approver_id': None,
                     'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                     'created_at': '2013-11-11T07:30:57.925-05:00',
                     'creator_id': 111397,
                     'forum_post_id': None,
                     'forum_topic_id': None,
                     'id': 4350,
                     'post_count': 10,
                     'reason': 'artist requests that their name not be tagged '
                               'to any art',
                     'status': 'active',
                     'updated_at': None}],
 'linhthasack': [{'antecedent_name': 'linhthasack',
                  'approver_id': None,
                  'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                  'created_at': '2016-07-28T22:02:59.123-04:00',
                  'creator_id': 17633,
                  'forum_post_id': None,
                  'forum_topic_id': None,
                  'id': 12135,
                  'post_count': 10,
                  'reason': 'On request of the artist',
                  'status': 'active',
                  'updated_at': None}],
 'lowresatari': [{'antecedent_name': 'lowresatari',
                  'approver_id': None,
                  'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                  'created_at': '2014-02-26T07:16:22.377-05:00',
                  'creator_id': 17633,
                  'forum_post_id': None,
                  'forum_topic_id': None,
                  'id': 4627,
                  'post_count': 10,
                  'reason': 'https://e621.net/takedown/show/2159',
                  'status': 'active',
                  'updated_at': None}],
 'macks_(artist)': [{'antecedent_name': 'macks_(artist)',
                     'approver_id': None,
                     'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                     'created_at': '2014-09-28T15:09:58.592-04:00',
                     'creator_id': 17633,
                     'forum_post_id': None,
                     'forum_topic_id': None,
                     'id': 5045,
                     'post_count': 10,
                     'reason': 'https://e621.net/takedown/show/2133',
                     'status': 'active',
                     'updated_at': None}],
 'marc_schnakenberg': [{'antecedent_name': 'marc_schnakenberg',
                        'approver_id': None,
                        'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                        'created_at': '2014-02-15T16:29:30.356-05:00',
                        'creator_id': 18776,
                        'forum_post_id': None,
                        'forum_topic_id': None,
                        'id': 4578,
                        'post_count': 10,
                        'reason': 'Privacy request',
                        'status': 'active',
                        'updated_at': None}],
 "melissa_o'brien": [{'antecedent_name': "melissa_o'brien",
                      'approver_id': None,
                      'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                      'created_at': '2014-12-28T17:18:24.431-05:00',
                      'creator_id': 17633,
                      'forum_post_id': None,
                      'forum_topic_id': None,
                      'id': 5650,
                      'post_count': 10,
                      'reason': 'https://e621.net/takedown/show/2931',
                      'status': 'active',
                      'updated_at': None}],
 'mutsurf': [{'antecedent_name': 'mutsurf',
              'approver_id': None,
              'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
              'created_at': '2014-07-21T15:37:18.102-04:00',
              'creator_id': 17633,
              'forum_post_id': None,
              'forum_topic_id': None,
              'id': 4879,
              'post_count': 10,
              'reason': 'artist request',
              'status': 'active',
              'updated_at': None}],
 'nyori': [{'antecedent_name': 'nyori',
            'approver_id': None,
            'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
            'created_at': '2014-06-22T04:08:27.116-04:00',
            'creator_id': 17633,
            'forum_post_id': None,
            'forum_topic_id': None,
            'id': 4818,
            'post_count': 10,
            'reason': 'At request of the artist',
            'status': 'active',
            'updated_at': None}],
 'paisleypaw': [{'antecedent_name': 'paisleypaw',
                 'approver_id': None,
                 'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                 'created_at': '2013-11-11T07:31:03.915-05:00',
                 'creator_id': 111397,
                 'forum_post_id': None,
                 'forum_topic_id': None,
                 'id': 4349,
                 'post_count': 10,
                 'reason': 'artist requests that their name not be tagged to '
                           'any art',
                 'status': 'active',
                 'updated_at': None}],
 'riscara': [{'antecedent_name': 'riscara',
              'approver_id': None,
              'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
              'created_at': '2013-02-21T14:31:32.470-05:00',
              'creator_id': 19644,
              'forum_post_id': None,
              'forum_topic_id': None,
              'id': 3771,
              'post_count': 10,
              'reason': 'artist requests that their name not be tagged to any '
                        'art',
              'status': 'active',
              'updated_at': None}],
 'shawn_ye': [{'antecedent_name': 'shawn_ye',
               'approver_id': None,
               'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
               'created_at': '2012-03-27T04:05:31.275-04:00',
               'creator_id': 19644,
               'forum_post_id': None,
               'forum_topic_id': None,
               'id': 3149,
               'post_count': 10,
               'reason': 'artist requests real name not be used',
               'status': 'active',
               'updated_at': None}],
 'tehpeej_(artist)': [{'antecedent_name': 'tehpeej_(artist)',
                       'approver_id': None,
                       'consequent_name': 'invalid_tag',
                       'created_at': '2016-06-27T12:39:53.168-04:00',
                       'creator_id': 17633,
                       'forum_post_id': None,
                       'forum_topic_id': None,
                       'id': 11957,
                       'post_count': 10,
                       'reason': 'https://e621.net/takedown/show/4698',
                       'status': 'active',
                       'updated_at': None}]}
Here are the relevant parts:

alliieennss reason: artist requests his name not be used on the site
cassandra_bruynseels reason: https://e621.net/takedowns/2688
chirmaya_(colorist) reason: Bucket fill doesn't count.
erin_middendorf reason: requests that their real name be unavailable for use as a tag
felicity_longis title: Dmail #1424882
felicity_longis forum_post_id: forum #296735
james_sheehan reason: https://e621.net/takedowns/2150
jocelyn_dunn reason: artist requests real name not be used
kaylie_prefontaine reason: artist doesn't want their real name used on the site
laura_westrate reason: artist requests that their name not be tagged to any art
linhthasack reason: On request of the artist
lowresatari reason: https://e621.net/takedowns/2159
macks_(artist) reason: https://e621.net/takedowns/2133
marc_schnakenberg reason: Privacy request
melissa_o'brien reason: https://e621.net/takedowns/2931
mutsurf reason: artist request
nyori reason: At request of the artist
paisleypaw reason: artist requests that their name not be tagged to any art
riscara reason: artist requests that their name not be tagged to any art
shawn_ye reason: artist requests real name not be used
tehpeej_(artist) reason: https://e621.net/takedowns/4698

In summary
Should be moved to anonymous_artist, assuming invalid_tag doesn't somehow grant better anonymity:

alliieennss
jocelyn_dunn
kaylie_prefontaine
laura_westrate
linhthasack (probably)
mutsurf
nyori
paisleypaw
riscara
shawn_ye

Should stay invalid:

chirmaya_(colorist)
marc_schnakenberg (might be commissioner)
erin_middendorf (might be commissioner)

I can't confirm (maybe the takedowns were for bad edits or art theives?):

cassandra_bruynseels
felicity_longis
james_sheehan
lowresatari
macks_(artist)
melissa_o'brien
tehpeej_(artist)

Although it occurs to me that some of the "real name" requests may be fine with a screen name instead.
Edit: Fixed the formatting on the takedown urls.

Updated

wat8548

Member

Well, the one forum post has been hidden, and all of those takedowns (after reformatting the URLs) have hidden reasons, so that wasn't very helpful. Although takedown #2150 shows its status as "denied", despite something having apparently happened anyway.

ShadyGuy

Privileged

matrixmash said:
shawn_ye reason: artist requests real name not be used

Although it occurs to me that some of the "real name" requests may be fine with a screen name instead.

Yep, this is Cheetahpaws, they posted stuff under their username instead: https://e621.net/post_versions?commit=Search&search%5Btags_removed%5D=shawn_ye
So probably just a mistake there

matrixmash said:

Should be moved to anonymous_artist, assuming invalid_tag doesn't somehow grant better anonymity:

Yep: anonymous_artist also requires any identifying sources to be removed, invalid_tag does not

Furrin Gok

Member

shadyguy said:
Yep: anonymous_artist also requires any identifying sources to be removed, invalid_tag does not

Note: These posts should not be sourced if it can be used to identify the artist.

Well that's probably only even written because "if we have a source we should have a name," but if the artist requested to be listed as anonymous that may be able to be an exception to that.

It was Genjar who added that line. He was a staff member in the past, but that doesn't mean the wiki change had any admin intention behind it, it may have simply been what made sense to him and many others.

Note: This tag should only be used with identifying sources if the artist simply requested to not be named

Genjar

Former Staff

It's that way for a reason.
See https://e621.net/forum_topics/5791.

If you search for the author and a bunch of anonymous_artist posts pop up, it's easy to connect the dots. 'Oh, this artist has drawn something that they don't want to be associated with.' Completely defeats the point of the tag.
Whereas if you search for the author and only get invalid tags or nothing...

Updated

Furrin Gok

Member

genjar said:
It's that way for a reason.
See https://e621.net/forum_topics/5791.

If you search for the author and a bunch of anonymous_artist posts pop up, it's easy to connect the dots. 'Oh, this artist has drawn something that they don't want to be associated with.' Completely defeats the point of the tag.
Whereas if you search for the author and only get invalid tags or nothing...

You're forgetting of the metatags you can use: hassource:true arttags:0 will track down any of those cases just as easily as anonymous_artist hassource:true. If they just don't want their name on this site, anonymous_artist already has that covered just as much as invalid_tag does, if they want absolute anonymity here then they need to request the sources locked to empty too, if that's possible.

Strikerman

Janitor

genjar said:
It's that way for a reason.
See https://e621.net/forum_topics/5791.

If you search for the author and a bunch of anonymous_artist posts pop up, it's easy to connect the dots. 'Oh, this artist has drawn something that they don't want to be associated with.' Completely defeats the point of the tag.
Whereas if you search for the author and only get invalid tags or nothing...

I feel like the same chain of logic would still come to mind if you notice that the artist is aliased to invalid tag

wat8548

Member

genjar said:
It's that way for a reason.
See https://e621.net/forum_topics/5791.

If you search for the author and a bunch of anonymous_artist posts pop up, it's easy to connect the dots. 'Oh, this artist has drawn something that they don't want to be associated with.' Completely defeats the point of the tag.
Whereas if you search for the author and only get invalid tags or nothing...

The entire premise behind that thread appears to be that only those 10 artists have ever had their work tagged as anonymous_artist, which is just obviously untrue. Maybe things were different 8 years ago, but the security by obscurity argument that you're leaning on has completely collapsed since then.

The only other defence was that it is more difficult to pick out a list of artists from the innumerable aliases to invalid_tag, except Strikerman conveniently did exactly that for us just up there.

gattonero2001

Janitor

strikerman said:
I agree in principle, but do you know for certain which artists (currently aliased to invalid_tag) want to be anonymous? I suspect a lot of them are aliased for other reasons.

Every artist currently aliased to invalid tag

Some of those were indeed aliased away for unrelated reasons, see topic #28869 for example. I'd ask current staff which ones should be kept that way before writing a BUR.

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