The tag alias #59677 enlarged_clitoris -> huge_clitoris has been rejected.

Reason: The enlarged_clitoris wiki lists enlarged as the next step up in size beyond big_clitoris. For all other size tags on e6 (big_penis, huge_balls, etc), it goes big, then huge, then hyper. We already have huge_clitoris and hyper_clitoris implying clitoris and as far as I can tell, huge is currently being used for the same meaning as enlarged.

Please reply if you think there is or should be a difference between these tags! This has really had me confused lol. Someone on the discord said they thought enlarged was supposed to be for more phallic-looking clits, but when I brought that up on the forums (topic #36358) it got downvoted and rejected.

EDIT: The tag alias enlarged_clitoris -> huge_clitoris (forum #351910) has been rejected by @Cloudpie.

huge_* tags more often appear as unreasonable or impossible anatomy, I'd say an enlarged clitoris is probably reasonably sized in the majority of cases. big_clitoris might be a better target?

Proposal:

• Update enlarged_clitoris -> ftm_clitoris|to keep the purpose of the tag. And ftm_clitoris should be descriptive enough on its own, to understand what it is there for.
• alias enlarged_clitoris -> big_clitoris

dubsthefox said:
Proposal:

• Update enlarged_clitoris -> ftm_clitoris|to keep the purpose of the tag.

Can we be sure all currently uses of enlarged_clitoris is because the character's FTM, and not just because the character simply has an enlarged clitoris? That seems more TWYK than TWYS.

watsit said:
Can we be sure all currently uses of enlarged_clitoris is because the character's FTM

Tbh, I just blindly trusted Scaliespe, when he said "looks good as it is right now", in the e621 Discord. And the fact that it would be called ftm_clitoris, after the update, would cancel out the TWYK part. Because it should only be used on andromorph characters with a unusual big clitoris.
^{_{(at least that's how I am imagining it)}}

dubsthefox said:
Tbh, I just blindly trusted Scaliespe, when he said "looks good as it is right now", in the e621 Discord. And the fact that it would be called ftm_clitoris, after the update, would cancel out the TWYK part. Because it should only be used on andromorph characters with a unusual big clitoris.

That still sounds like an assumption. Presumably the FTM part of the tag would apply because the character is taking hormone therapy that's causing the clitoris to grow and become more penis-like. But unless you see hormone meds or some other visibly_trans indicator, an enlarged clitoris on its own doesn't have to be a result of that, so blindly moving posts tagged as enlarged_clitoris to ftm_clitoris would cause mistags since they won't all have a visible indicator of being FTM.

watsit said:
That still sounds like an assumption. Presumably the FTM part of the tag would apply because the character is taking hormone therapy that's causing the clitoris to grow and become more penis-like. But unless you see hormone meds or some other visibly_trans indicator, an enlarged clitoris on its own doesn't have to be a result of that, so blindly moving posts tagged as enlarged_clitoris to ftm_clitoris would cause mistags since they won't all have a visible indicator of being FTM.

I never said we shouldn't look at the posts, before changing it. Also, if we argue like this, we would have to do this with any tag we are updating in some way.

But fact is:

• The way it is described in the wiki, it is usable for any clitoris, that's bigger than normal + for some reason andromorph characters are mentioned. Maybe it wasn't the initial intent of the wiki writer, but...
• ... it is mostly used on andromorph characters, and any usage besides that makes the tag obsolete.
• I got IRL examples, and looked over the the first page now. Most of them seem to match the real thing. And that stuff in art is over stylized sometimes, is something we have to live with.
• There are some, applied to characters with other genders. Those can be changed to big/hug/hyper_clitoris

dubsthefox said:
I never said we shouldn't look at the posts, before changing it. Also, if we argue like this, we would have to do this with any tag we are updating in some way.

If it's aliased to big_clitoris or something, there's less to worry about. An enlarged clitoris is still a big clitoris, whether it's a result of being FTM or not, whether it's on an andromorph, trans man, or whatever else. An ftm_clitoris tag can be handled separately on its own, feel free to search enlarged/big/huge/hyper_clitoris and add ftm_clitoris when there's a visible indication it's a result of transitioning or a transformation or something, but I don't see a reason to manually clean enlarged_clitoris out so you can do a mass update enlarged_clitoris->ftm_clitoris, followed by an alias enlarged_clitoris->big_clitoris. That seems like a convoluted way to do it with more unnecessary work.

watsit said:
Can we be sure all currently uses of enlarged_clitoris is because the character's FTM, and not just because the character simply has an enlarged clitoris? That seems more TWYK than TWYS.

Depends what you mean by "simply has an enlarged clitoris."

The word "enlarged" implies not that it's simply large, or larger than average (we'd just tag big_clitoris for that), but rather that it's been artificially enlarged in some way. And there's already a different tag for the actual process of enlargement, like via magic or something: clitoris_expansion, following the format of the other expansion tags, so it's not that either. The only possibly meaning I can decipher for the current enlarged_clitoris tag (and apparently how it's largely being used, if you look at the results) is for testosterone-based enlargement. The issue I see is that the name itself is still fairly ambiguous (hence the confusion in this thread, no?) but this is still the tag that's being used for this purpose. The wiki is also poorly written for describing this purpose, but that's a secondary issue. The thing is that there is no other tag in existence for describing a specifically testosterone-altered clitoris. There was once a t-dick tag in use, but as you can see, it was aliased to enlarged_clitoris. And that's a bad name for the tag anyway, particularly considering that it doesn't count as a penis, which the tag name implies.

So the issue as far as I see it is that enlarged_clitoris is supposed to be the tag for testosterone-enlarged clitorises, but at least in part due to the wikis poorly reflecting this, and the name being ambiguous, it's often used simply for any large clitoris which then has to be cleaned out and properly sorted into big_clitors, huge_clitoris, or whatever. Though, most of the current results for enlarged_clitoris do appear to be accurate, so it seems someone's been keeping up with it. Still, I think finding a less ambiguous tag name and mass-updating this tag into it would be the best course of action.

watsit said:
That still sounds like an assumption. Presumably the FTM part of the tag would apply because the character is taking hormone therapy that's causing the clitoris to grow and become more penis-like. But unless you see hormone meds or some other visibly_trans indicator, an enlarged clitoris on its own doesn't have to be a result of that, so blindly moving posts tagged as enlarged_clitoris to ftm_clitoris would cause mistags since they won't all have a visible indicator of being FTM.

I know very little about hormone therapy, but I do know a thing or two about (normal) clitorises, so I can say with certainty that they never look like that under any normal circumstances. I think the tag itself probably is a visibly_trans indicator. Especially so if you can see the glans isn't connected to the labia minora, which would only be as a result of surgery.

Note that most of what you find in the huge_clitoris/hyper_clitoris tags do not look like this - the "enlarged clitoris" tag has a different appearance entirely which I think implies hormone therapy. Normally, these huge and hyper clitorises look just the same as a regular clitoris would, just a lot bigger or longer. The artwork found under enlarged_clitoris does appear to be a deliberate choice on the part of the artists to depict the results of hormone therapy rather than just a naturally oversized clitoris, given the distinctly penile shape.

scaliespe said:
The word "enlarged" implies not that it's simply large, or larger than average (we'd just tag big_clitoris for that), but rather that it's been artificially enlarged in some way.

I guess it depends on context. The word enlarged can mean just bigger than normal, in some circumstances. And even if it does mean its grown larger, that doesn't mean it was artificial, especially in a fictional setting.

scaliespe said:
The issue I see is that the name itself is still fairly ambiguous (hence the confusion in this thread, no?) but this is still the tag that's being used for this purpose.

And that confusion is why I think it's best to not assume an enlarged clitoris is due to being FTM, especially given that huge_clit and megaclit are aliased to it. Only recently was t-dick aliased to it, which is probably where most of the current FTM uses came from.

i think an 'enlarged clitoris' is a clit that is currently larger than it is normally, not a clit that is at its current size all the time.

The tag alias enlarged_clitoris -> huge_clitoris (forum #351910) has been rejected by @Cloudpie.