The takedown https://e621.net/takedowns/18341 removed the following posts:
post #4036256 post #4036260 post #4036277

The owner for the characters chi_(fumblingfoxpaws) and ai_(fumblingfoxpaws) requested it.

It would be good if we include them on the list "Characters to Avoid" (https://e621.net/wiki_pages/11610) to avoid further takedowns.

That wiki page is entirely unofficial.
I would not expect anyone to check it or even know of its existence.
It's also not locked, so you could add those characters there if you want to.

We do not grant DNP status to characters.

bitwolfy said:
We do not grant DNP status to characters.

Okay. I've added it now. But why we don't grant DNP status to characters?

specteon said:
Okay. I've added it now. But why we don't grant DNP status to characters?

Practical reasons.

1. The avoid posting list is already quite enormous, and adding character tags to it would balloon it to an absurd size.
There are technical restrictions on how long a wiki page can be, and we would need to dedicate developer time to develop an alternate solution.

2. We expect uploaders to check the DNP list when posting anything. E621 is almost entirely crowd-sourced, so the uploader is likely not to be either the artist or the character owner.
Determining the artist of any given artwork is usually reasonably simple. Trying to determine who the character is can get complicated, and some users may decide to not bother.
Malicious users would deliberately omit the character name to bypass the restriction.

3. This would result in a larger workload for the staff team.
The queue is already ever-growing, and if the janitors were forced to verify character tags for all uploads, we would be quickly overwhelmed.

specteon said:
It would be good if we include them on the list "Characters to Avoid" (https://e621.net/wiki_pages/11610) to avoid further takedowns.

Foxpaws here.

To avoid takedowns, you should rather ask people first if it's okay for you to blatantly take something of theirs, and post it to another gallery. It's only common courtesy, not rocket science.
Although, in this case, you could've spared yourself the trouble had you just read my journal at IB and respected my request there. You did visit my gallery after all.

foxyfoxeswondering said:
To avoid takedowns, you should rather ask people first if it's okay for you to blatantly take something of theirs, and post it to another gallery.

It would take forever.
It's better to ask forgiveness than permission.

foxyfoxeswondering said:
Although, in this case, you could've spared yourself the trouble had you just read my journal at IB and respected my request there. You did visit my gallery after all.

I picked it directly from the Minum gallery.

I always check the DNP artist list, and read the image description before posting here tho
Minum usually adds on the image description a notice to not repost when it's the case (e.g., on the eeveefan's commissions)
It wasn't the case for your images and it was on the Minum profile.

It isn't reasonable to expect that someone will check every IB journal before reposting something. The information there aren't structured.

Adding the notice cleaner (e.g., adding it directly on the image description, as eeveefan does, or adding yourself on some DNP list) is better for everyone.

Otherwise, I expected that someone else will try to repost your image.

specteon said:
*snip*

mate, it's not like it's your duty to post someone's gallery to here before anyone else can. it's not like it's a competition or anything, take your time.

you really ought to be doing your due diligence to check if it's cool to post something here before you do; if stuff you posted gets deleted because you didn't, it's your own fault. the uploading guidelines pretty much say as much.

specteon said:
It would take forever.
It's better to ask forgiveness than permission.

Put in the effort. Trust me, it's better in the long run.
If still not convinced, you can continue reposting whatever you like until you piss off the artist(s) enough that they ask for their entire gallery to be nuked from the site.

I picked it directly from the Minum gallery.

Apparently you did not.

A description from my gallery for one of the pictures was stolen along with the picture. The artist didn't write that; I did - and I bet your Sanskrit is lacking. Hopefully you at least learned something about Buddhism, because the deeper meaning of the commission apparently eluded you in your haste.

The other two pictures you naturally got from the artist's gallery because I haven't posted them yet myself.

I always check the DNP artist list, and read the image description before posting here tho
Minum usually adds on the image description a notice to not repost when it's the case (e.g., on the eeveefan's commissions)
It wasn't the case for your images and it was on the Minum profile.

It really isn't the business of an artist to tell people, that you can't just take everything, and do with it as you please.

It's equally unreasonable to expect artists/commissioners to enter any and all DNP lists that are out there for that, or to expect them to spam their own submissions with the same thing over and over again. In case you haven't noticed, submission descriptions can be a form of art in themselves, if you're a writer.

And naturally you would find the pictures on minum's profile. Of course he's free to display his own work in his own gallery as he pleases.

It isn't reasonable to expect that someone will check every IB journal before reposting something. The information there aren't structured.

Adding the notice cleaner (e.g., adding it directly on the image description, as eeveefan does, or adding yourself on some DNP list) is better for everyone.

Don't you mean, better for yourself? Artists and commissioners are people with feelings and personal circumstances. Find the time and get to know the people behind the pictures before you do anything that's potentially damaging to them. Or ask them before reposting, it's quicker.

You offer me the option to enter an obscure DNP list that only a few reads and even fewer knows the existence of, because that's the only option that I am given on this site, takedowns excluded? And you tell me I'm not reasonable? Swell.

specteon said:
It would take forever.
It's better to ask forgiveness than permission.

If everything sounds so tedious, perhaps you should stick to posting only art that you own and have the right to post.

You speak about asking for forgiveness, but I haven't seen an apology yet.

foxyfoxeswondering said:
Apparently you did not.

A description from my gallery for one of the pictures was stolen along with the picture. The artist didn't write that; I did - and I bet your Sanskrit is lacking. Hopefully you at least learned something about Buddhism, because the deeper meaning of the commission apparently eluded you in your haste.

The other two pictures you naturally got from the artist's gallery because I haven't posted them yet myself.

Ouch, busted!

It really isn't the business of an artist to tell people, that you can't just take everything, and do with it as you please.

It's equally unreasonable to expect artists/commissioners to enter any and all DNP lists that are out there for that, or to expect them to spam their own submissions with the same thing over and over again. In case you haven't noticed, submission descriptions can be a form of art in themselves, if you're a writer.

I try to clear art I upload from FA/IB for much of these reasons, and I REALLY wish commission artists would blatantly state on their profiles if they normally allow reposting. The norm is if character owner doesn't mind, then it's OK, but some artists don't allow it. A blanket denial like Fuf telling me to just get character owner to post it is more than fair if I want to not be a dick to either the artist or the person that paid them. Almost every single case I've asked, they just want attribution and a link to the source.

And naturally you would find the pictures on minum's profile. Of course he's free to display his own work in his own gallery as he pleases.

Don't you mean, better for yourself? Artists and commissioners are people with feelings and personal circumstances. Find the time and get to know the people behind the pictures before you do anything that's potentially damaging to them. Or ask them before reposting, it's quicker.

You offer me the option to enter an obscure DNP list that only a few reads and even fewer knows the existence of, because that's the only option that I am given on this site, takedowns excluded? And you tell me I'm not reasonable? Swell.

If everything sounds so tedious, perhaps you should stick to posting only art that you own and have the right to post.

You speak about asking for forgiveness, but I haven't seen an apology yet.

DNP is made by staff, actually? I guess if a profile explicitly states it at sources, it should function same as not reading the DNP list when uploading. i.e. Flagged account for abuse. It only takes a moment to check the profiles of the artist and commissioner! Like I said, most artists allow reposting, but you still need to ask the character owners.

There's an obvious culture clash between the OP and artist I'm replying to. Communication isn't happening which leads to this. Can't know if you don't ask. But some things you should make clear! :( And to be fair, it's not like everyone hasn't heard of the top 5 furry sites and being in this genre. e621 is much more respecting than many of the other boorus I won't name.

thegreatwolfgang said:
Put in the effort. Trust me, it's better in the long run.
If still not convinced, you can continue reposting whatever you like until you piss off the artist(s) enough that they ask for their entire gallery to be nuked from the site.

Damn straight - Do this enough, and we'll be Swiss-cheesed to death! Check the takedowns list for random days this year if you don't believe thegreatwolfgang.

Related, thought it was funny amount on that lawsuit: https://petapixel.com/2023/02/07/getty-images-are-suing-stable-diffusion-for-a-staggering-1-8-trillion/

foxyfoxeswondering said:
If everything sounds so tedious, perhaps you should stick to posting only art that you own and have the right to post.

You speak about asking for forgiveness, but I haven't seen an apology yet.

I just wanted to slide in to say that I also own a few characters that I keep very very very private and I would also submit a takedown if somehow they got leaked somewhere, but perhaps this is taking it a step too far (making it really personal)...?

I am by no means defending the person who breached copyright, it is true that they should have checked, but there is also the fact that them sharing stuff from artists en masse (that they clearly don't own btw) is a way to boost an artist's visibility (assuming they leave source and all of that), which leads to more clients and jazz, I have found plenty of artists I like through repost accounts and commissioned them at a later time, also retweeting their stuff into my own circles and spreading the word that way may have led new clients to them that they would not have gotten otherwise, so there's that...

With that said, the characters that I own and keep private I usually ask the artist I'm commissioning if they can just not share stuff (I get a bunch of commissions through SKEB and it has a checkmark for private requests built-in btw, so it streamlines the process), usually the answer is yes, half of the time they ask for an additional fee which I'm also fine with as from a gallery standpoint the time they spend on my piece could be spent on their magnum opus that would sit on their gallery and brings thousands of clients, the point is, they don't post it and I don't either, so it just sits hidden away on my files for personal use.

But again, I don't rp or do anything with those characters that involves other people, I mostly use them for drawing practice / comfort stuff (which are the comms, other than design sheets that is), so I got no reason to post them, I also iterate their designs a lot and just don't want a character looking like a commit history for a github repository... But I know that if I ever did, it would get sucked by gallerydl/tag watchers and possibly shared to hell and beyond and there's no stopping that, I know because that's exactly what I do with Hydrus and a few watchers I got going for personal stuff, while that knowledge wouldn't stop me from submitting takedowns as stated earlier, its just a shot in the dark at trying to contain the wildfire, think how many sites and p2p networks aren't out there, and even on known sites, you still rely on tags to find them (your characters were tagged, no? now imagine they got posted without tags, would have to be looking at their other tags / the feed and actually paying attention to spot them, apply this to all websites out there...). I also wanna say that as much as I like IB, for some reason it crashes on Chrome iOS after opening a few new tabs from the search, and the tags there are hell to deal with, they manage to be worse than pixiv.

darryus said:
you really ought to be doing your due diligence to check if it's cool to post something here before you do; if stuff you posted gets deleted because you didn't, it's your own fault. the uploading guidelines pretty much say as much.

Checking the DNP lists (even the unofficial) and the description is what can be done with a reasonable effort.
Checking the InkBunny journal (a far and unstructured content) isn't unreasonable IMHO.

Saying that "it's your fault to post a DNP character that wasn't present in the list, but only on an unstructured entry" isn't reasonable IMHO.

Note: I'm not even saying that someone here is the culprit, and even I think that it's not the right way to work.
Blaming isn't helpful and it's better to avoid it.

I started the post just saying "hey, we should include this entry on the list", just to avoid further issues because I know that someone later may do the same.
Instead of blaming like you do, it's better to rethink: "what can I do to avoid further issues like this one?"

thegreatwolfgang said:
If still not convinced, you can continue reposting whatever you like until you piss off the artist(s) enough that they ask for their entire gallery to be nuked from the site.

That's why I asked to add a new entry on the DNP Characters (before knowing that I had permission to do it for myself).
I'm a bit surprised that bitWolfy said that he don't expect that anyone even know the existence of the characters DNP btw

foxyfoxeswondering said:
Apparently you did not.

A description from my gallery for one of the pictures was stolen along with the picture. The artist didn't write that; I did - and I bet your Sanskrit is lacking. Hopefully you at least learned something about Buddhism, because the deeper meaning of the commission apparently eluded you in your haste.

The other two pictures you naturally got from the artist's gallery because I haven't posted them yet myself.

The issue is the same being one or two.
As I said, I picked it directly from the Minum gallery, as you mentioned that you haven't posted it yet.

foxyfoxeswondering said:
Don't you mean, better for yourself?

No. I mean for anyone.
It's straightforward to think that someone in the future will see your gallery, and will repost it anywhere (on e621 again, or worse: in a place harder to remove, such as on Twitter or on a bad booru).

As RainerCat said, it won't avoid bad actors who use gallerydl, but it'll at least avoid cases like the one happening here - and I don't think that is uncommon.

If you don't want to add a notice, it's up to you.

foxyfoxeswondering said:
And you tell me I'm not reasonable?

The effort to search a notice on a unstructured and far place (IB Journal) is not reasonable. It's what I said.

Making it in a separated post to be cleaner and more visible:

foxyfoxeswondering said:
You speak about asking for forgiveness, but I haven't seen an apology yet.

I'm sorry for the trouble.
I added your characters on the DNP list to avoid further issues.

But I ask you to re-read the initial post and understand the point.
It isn't about you, but the content generation.

alphamule said:
DNP is made by staff, actually?

Yeah, what I said about offering me an option I meant in the sense of suggesting that I enter a DNP list. But DNP is only offered to artists here, and I'm a character owner/commissioner so it's not a valid option at all. The friendly admin mentioned a character DNP list that you can enter by yourself, but like they explained, it's a lost cause:

bitWolfy said:

That wiki page is entirely unofficial.
I would not expect anyone to check it or even know of its existence.
It's also not locked, so you could add those characters there if you want to.

We do not grant DNP status to characters.

alphamule said:

There's an obvious culture clash between the OP and artist I'm replying to. Communication isn't happening which leads to this. Can't know if you don't ask. But some things you should make clear! :( And to be fair, it's not like everyone hasn't heard of the top 5 furry sites and being in this genre. e621 is much more respecting than many of the other boorus I won't name.

I hail from a time when people were nicer to each other and you asked for permission to play with toys that weren't yours. Otherwise the big kid at the sandbox would hit you on the head with a plastic shovel. But nowadays kids don't go out to play, they sit at their computer screens stealing other peoples' stuff.

What comes to my journal, it's still on the front page of my profile. The first one, actually, on the top. And you can read the main point from under the headline very clearly without needing to open the journal itself. This is less about a culture clash than it is about negligence and disregard.

RainerCat said:
...but perhaps this is taking it a step too far (making it really personal)...?

You're right on point, this is very personal to me and I'm aware of it. My characters and the money I've put into them matter to me a lot. What was done was like a punch in my guts. I'm offended and I honestly believe I have the right to be angry. Here's why:

RainerCat said:
...them sharing stuff from artists en masse (that they clearly don't own btw) is a way to boost an artist's visibility...
...I usually ask the artist I'm commissioning if they can just not share stuff...
...they don't post it and I don't either, so it just sits hidden away on my files for personal use.

I don't ask for private commissions often. I have no need nor coping to keep more than one gallery, but I recognize the need for my artists to advertise their art so I don't want to restrict their posting too much. I commission for my own sake and reasons. I could keep my characters to just myself, but the worldbuilding and sharing some of my own opinions and stories through my characters is more fun. I want them in my own gallery where I have control over their 'lives' and lore. Partly because of my own mental well-being and partly because that way it helps my artists too. Because of the former, I've been contemplating about going solely for private commissions. I would lose there a lot by doing so though, and my artists would lose some of their exposure so I'd rather not do it.

So in a sense, the kernel of the pinecone is that if my artists want to post my commissions, I generally allow them to unless something else has been agreed on. I post my characters in my own gallery, but I dislike third parties doing it. That's what happened here.

And there's a catch: I don't mind p2p networks and such very much. I only mind people reposting to sites that make profit from the commissions that I've paid for and that I share in my own gallery for free (provided that they aren't posted to such sites).

IB is funded by donations, the userbase is friendly, the graphical outlook is pretty as a button, and you need a better browser. :)

specteon said:
...but it'll at least avoid cases like the one happening here - and I don't think that is uncommon.
If you don't want to add a notice, it's up to you.

I did add a journal, like I explained above, that you don't even have to open to get the message. The only thing it takes from you is for you to take a look at my profile and you see it. It really isn't too much effort to ask.

specteon said:
Making it in a separated post to be cleaner and more visible:

I'm sorry for the trouble.
I added your characters on the DNP list to avoid further issues.

But I ask you to re-read the initial post and understand the point.
It isn't about you, but the content generation.

Thank you for your efforts.

As it was explained, the DNP list doesn't do a thing because it isn't binding. I'm sure the admins would know.

I'm not a content machine for your personal whims and upload credits and whatnot. That's the point.

Good talk, but that should about do it now.