Topic: Forum usability concerns

Posted under Site Bug Reports & Feature Requests

Heya, just a few points I haven't really seen brought up before that might impact forums usage negatively/make the forums less beginner friendly. These all apply to the "All" category on the forums since it's the default one that's shown when you come to the forums

Too many sticky threads

The first one is that currently we have 14 sticky threads at the top. While they do contain important info for users, having this many could easily lead to decision fatigue which can actually making the info on the stickies harder to find

Taking for example the usecase where an user has had their post deleted by the automod and then came to the forums to look for an explanation on it: The relevant thread that's trying to serve that purpose is the 13th topic down on the list, making it much easier to miss and leading to people creating more redundant topics complaining about it

The worst part is, one of the sticky threads right above it is "Collection of Interesting Information and Forum Threads!" which sounds like would be the perfect place to link to many of the current sticked threads

I think it would improve the forums a lot if we took the time to properly consider what threads deserve to be stickied and shown first to anyone browsing the forums, and which ones could be linked in a general "Table of Contents" thread like that one. This wouldn't require any code and wouldn't take much time to fix, it would just be a bit of house cleaning like it's already being done elsewhere

Alias/Implication flooding

The second point is admittedly harder to solve, so I'll just include it for the sake of mentioning it since I've never seen any discussion of it in the forums

As far as I'm aware, currently there are only two ways to browse the forums: You either see every thread, or you narrow down to only browse the threads of a certain category. The problem here is that the way that alias and implications work on the forums, every new request is essentially a new thread that gets added and rejection/acceptance messages are automatically added as new replies to them, bumping them to the top just like any other.

That means that from time to time, the default forum category can get absolutely flooded by automod bumpped threads. Not only burying away every other category of the forum and forcing users to filter for the specific categories to find other threads, but also burying away every other thread in the alias and implications category that were still being discussed

The way the messages are currently working means that the automod by itself can quickly deteriorate the discussion on other alias and implication requests, which in turn makes the threads more likely to die without conclusion, which leads to them accumulating only to be mass deleted months or years from now, adding to the automod spam issue

As I said at the start, none of the solutions to this problem are easy fixes. It is just a core issue of the system that would take quite a bit of thinking and coding to solve, and I'm very aware that it's not something that would be handled at any point in the short or medium term

tldr: we have way too many sticky threads, can someone go over them and just leave a few stickied? we can put links to all the other ones in the "Collection of Interesting Information and Forum Threads!" thread or another similar one
also the automod completely kills the "all" and the alias/implication forums every time there's a lot of acceptance/rejections, someone should probably try to fix that too

I wonder if it's possible to have drop-down view or configurable rather sticky threads show up. Can't you hide them with a userscript?
You can actually put automod on ignore. ;) Crud, I can't figure out how to ignore user #360277 (Auto moderator).
*searches help*
Ah, OK, Help page needs an update here because of broken link. https://e621.net/help/blacklist#users The specific users section has a link to https://e621.net/user/1/edit which should be to https://e621.net/users/me/edit.

Well, that's disappointing. Apparently, auto_moderator is counted the same as other moderators and thus can't be ignored. Derp!

Updated

mabit said:
Alias/Implication flooding

This might just be a tangential personal gripe, but having a separate section just for character and artist aliasing would be nice.

A lot of those threads aren't really worth a lot of discussion, as long as there's sufficient proof that A and B are the same artist, and this is the name they're going by, that's really all there is to it. There are far more of those kinds of requests than requests that suggest changes to general tagging, which usually merits more attention and discussion from forum users, and (personal opinion) fixes more pressing issues; artists/character aliases tend to get approved rather quickly, which results in waves of alias artist a -> artist b (APPROVED) regularly bumped to the top of the alias/implication request forum, blotting out more "technical" and "discussion worthy" BUR/Alias/Implication requests where more users might have opinions or suggestions to make.

Updated

alphamule said:
I wonder if it's possible to have drop-down view or configurable rather sticky threads show up. Can't you hide them with a userscript?
You can actually put automod on ignore. ;) Crud, I can't figure out how to ignore user #360277 (Auto moderator).
*searches help*
Ah, OK, Help page needs an update here because of broken link. https://e621.net/help/blacklist#users The specific users section has a link to https://e621.net/user/1/edit which should be to https://e621.net/users/me/edit.

Well, that's disappointing. Apparently, auto_moderator is counted the same as other moderators and thus can't be ignored. Derp!

The thing is that even if you could ignore the messages, that doesn't change that it's still bumping the threads for everyone else
I pointed that stuff out because those are the issues that affect the majority of the userbase that comes to the forums, specially those coming in for the first time which are much more likely to get confused and be turned away from here

maplebytes said:
This might just be a tangential personal gripe, but having a separate section just for character and artist aliasing would be nice.

A lot of those threads aren't really worth a lot of discussion, as long as there's sufficient proof that A and B are the same artist, and this is the name they're going by, that's really all there is to it. There are far more of those kinds of requests than requests that suggest changes to general tagging, which usually merits more attention and discussion from forum users, and (personal opinion) fixes more pressing issues; artists/character aliases tend to get approved rather quickly, which results in waves of alias artist a -> artist b (APPROVED) regularly bumped to the top of the alias/implication request forum, blotting out more "technical" and "discussion worthy" BUR/Alias/Implication requests where more users might have opinions or suggestions to make.

I agree. With almost all character and artists tags, it's either true or it's not. There's nothing to say.

oozeenthusiast said:
I agree. With almost all character and artists tags, it's either true or it's not. There's nothing to say.

It's understandable why they get approved so easily, but it is a little bit disappointing/annoying to go to the requests forum, see a wave of approved requests bumped to the top, and rather than BURs or Aliases/Implications that would fix long standing tag issues that have a dozen or more upvotes getting approved, it's mostly character or artist name changes.

maybe we could introduce subforums?
have all the different catagories we currently got and do what most forums do and isolate them into their own dedicated spaces. then we could get away with having the stickied posts more spread out to their relevant subforum, let auto-mod mass-bump aliases and implications without it burying other discussions, and just make the forums all around more tidy (an example for how this might look would be doomworld)

ganted this is something that's done for dedicated forum sites and the forums here are a tertiary feature (maybe secondary if you want to count the tag associating) and this would be a huge overhaul for the coders and one that will trip up powerusers; but i think it's a solution that could make the forums more approachable and legible for newcomers

dripen_arn said:
maybe we could introduce subforums?
have all the different catagories we currently got and do what most forums do and isolate them into their own dedicated spaces. then we could get away with having the stickied posts more spread out to their relevant subforum, let auto-mod mass-bump aliases and implications without it burying other discussions, and just make the forums all around more tidy (an example for how this might look would be doomworld)

ganted this is something that's done for dedicated forum sites and the forums here are a tertiary feature (maybe secondary if you want to count the tag associating) and this would be a huge overhaul for the coders and one that will trip up powerusers; but i think it's a solution that could make the forums more approachable and legible for newcomers

Or perhaps have ability to selectively ignore specific stickies? :D Actually, it would be nice if we had a separate list of topic numbers and user names/numbers to ignore. If auto_moderator's bumps could be ignored, than that seems more reasonable? Not remotely sure how to code this so guess it'll be on the Danbooru wishlist. Ignoring specific stickies is possible client-side but having it as a standard feature would also be better for the average non-custom-scripting user. Not that I use much on e621, myself.

There might be a way to indicate both ignoring posts and ignoring just bumps.
Like: bumper:*user* and comment:*user* metatags just for forum side of site? Blocking comments would block bumping, too?
A topic:###### metatag for forum blacklist would include stickies, if done that way. Later, could add UI to do it without checking account settings page?

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