When were female_cub and male_cub added?

Are these gonna be conexisting with loli and shota or should one of these pair be aliased away?

If loli and shota does end up being the on aliased, does that mean we can have the whole intersex family for cubs as tags too?

seems like another case of one guy with Garbagios adding in the vast majority of male_cub and female_cub instances

https://e621.net/post_versions?commit=Search&search%5Bexclude_uploads%5D=0&search%5Btags_added%5D=female_cub
https://e621.net/post_versions?commit=Search&search%5Bexclude_uploads%5D=0&search%5Btags_added%5D=male_cub

dripen_arn said:
seems like another case of one guy with Garbagios adding in the vast majority of male_cub and female_cub instances

https://e621.net/post_versions?commit=Search&search%5Bexclude_uploads%5D=0&search%5Btags_added%5D=female_cub
https://e621.net/post_versions?commit=Search&search%5Bexclude_uploads%5D=0&search%5Btags_added%5D=male_cub

That's about 1000 edits solo... Props to them. But what's the verdict here people?

(Bump)

My instinct is to dislike it, but it's technically not inappropriate to have those tags, considering they follow the other tags based around a sex having a specific physical trait (athletic_male, dominant_female, overweight_intersex, etc.)

strikerman said:
My instinct is to dislike it, but it's technically not inappropriate to have those tags, considering they follow the other tags based around a sex having a specific physical trait (athletic_male, dominant_female, overweight_intersex, etc.)

I think it would be better in that case to use young_male, young_female, etc, given that cub excludes young human(oid)s which makes it more specific than the others.

watsit said:
I think it would be better in that case to use young_male, young_female, etc, given that cub excludes young human(oid)s which makes it more specific than the others.

So far, both are being used. Should they get aliased too like how cub_on_cub got aliased to young_on_young?

Also, i just realized shota and loli can coexist with the 'young_*' tags as the 'safe' tag.

Sadly, we still don't have a 'non_safe' equivalent for 'young_intersex' family

benjiboyo said:
So far, both are being used. Should they get aliased too like how cub_on_cub got aliased to young_on_young?

IMO, yes.

The bulk update request #5073 is active.

Reason: the whole kit and caboodle, with future proofing too

EDIT: The bulk update request #5073 (forum #368467) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #5074 has been rejected.

create implication young_male (45629) -> young (240446)
create implication young_male (45629) -> male (2539796)
create implication shota (37397) -> young_male (45629)
create implication young_female (39020) -> young (240446)
create implication young_female (39020) -> female (2580287)
create implication loli (31266) -> young_female (39020)
create implication young_intersex (1228) -> young (240446)
create implication young_intersex (1228) -> intersex (249747)
create implication young_gynomorph (479) -> young (240446)
create implication young_gynomorph (479) -> gynomorph (196422)
create implication young_andromorph (487) -> young (240446)
create implication young_andromorph (487) -> andromorph (23838)
create implication young_herm (160) -> young (240446)
create implication young_herm (160) -> herm (27671)
create implication young_maleherm (71) -> young (240446)
create implication young_maleherm (71) -> maleherm (4569)
create implication young_ambiguous (4403) -> young (240446)
create implication young_ambiguous (4403) -> ambiguous_gender (317264)

Reason: cont, the implications

EDIT: The bulk update request #5074 (forum #368468) has been rejected by @Benjiboyo.

Can we please just alias cub to young already? One of the most pointless and confusing tags on the site.

wat8548 said:
Can we please just alias cub to young already? One of the most pointless and confusing tags on the site.

Its in consideration, but we need a tag to separate very young characters like toddlers and such, from older teenage characters that are maybe 16-17.

A lot of people are okay with young-ish characters, but would really like to steer clear of children.

rainbow_dash said:
Its in consideration, but we need a tag to separate very young characters like toddlers and such, from older teenage characters that are maybe 16-17.

A lot of people are okay with young-ish characters, but would really like to steer clear of children.

We probably should bite the bullet and start attempting to enforce compulsory age range tagging like we do with gender and form.

If we make the generous assumption that cub, loli and shota can all be safely implicated to child instead of young directly, young -child -baby -toddler -teenager -cub -loli -shota has 528 pages - still a ton, but something a few people on a tagging project should be able to clear up within a few months. Though that doesn't consider the fact that the teenager tag is so broad as to be useless and should probably either be invalidated or changed to lore.

wat8548 said:
We probably should bite the bullet and start attempting to enforce compulsory age range tagging like we do with gender and form.

If we make the generous assumption that cub, loli and shota can all be safely implicated to child instead of young directly, young -child -baby -toddler -teenager -cub -loli -shota has 528 pages - still a ton, but something a few people on a tagging project should be able to clear up within a few months. Though that doesn't consider the fact that the teenager tag is so broad as to be useless and should probably either be invalidated or changed to lore.

That's a good suggestion honestly. We haven't been dragging our heals for no reason, we just don't know of a good solution.

Also teenager is the easiest tag to apply in the world. 13-17. That's it. Over 18 and they are an adult for our purposes.

rainbow_dash said:
That's a good suggestion honestly. We haven't been dragging our heals for no reason, we just don't know of a good solution.

Also teenager is the easiest tag to apply in the world. 13-17. That's it. Over 18 and they are an adult for our purposes.

isn't a 19-year-old still a teenager?

strikerman said:
isn't a 19-year-old still a teenager?

A teenager is a minor in the 13 - 18 age range. It implicates young too.

To be fair, the brain stops developing by 25, but you're considered an adult by then.

strikerman said:
isn't a 19-year-old still a teenager?

For tagging purposes, no. Not that we tag based on the number of years a character is said to have lived anyway.

wolfmanfur said:
To be fair, the brain stops developing by 25, but you're considered an adult by then.

I hear that that's mostly bunk.

rainbow_dash said:
That's a good suggestion honestly. We haven't been dragging our heals for no reason, we just don't know of a good solution.

Also teenager is the easiest tag to apply in the world. 13-17. That's it. Over 18 and they are an adult for our purposes.

Those age ranges are lore, and may not even be applicable depending on the lore of the species. And even if they weren't, in the real world many 13-year-old humans look like 10-year-olds and many 17-year-old humans look like 20-year-olds. There just isn't enough consistency for TWYS to be reliable.

I liked the suggestion a few iterations of this debate back that we replace it with adolescent.

wat8548 said:
Those age ranges are lore, and may not even be applicable depending on the lore of the species. And even if they weren't, in the real world many 13-year-old humans look like 10-year-olds and many 17-year-old humans look like 20-year-olds. There just isn't enough consistency for TWYS to be reliable.

I liked the suggestion a few iterations of this debate back that we replace it with adolescent.

This would also be acceptable.

I see sooooo many headaches incoming. :( Cub and young being merged feels like a mistake for example.

alphamule said:
I see sooooo many headaches incoming. :( Cub and young being merged feels like a mistake for example.

It's a headache already.
One admin says cub is applicable to all young tagged characters that are anthro, then the next says cub only applies to child, toddler of baby anthro characters rather than all underage anthro characters. If even the admins cant decide what is and what isn't cub, then who will?

This tag is ripe for either invalidation or alias because it is not consistency and it creates drama.

https://e621.net/forum_topics/39325 Somehow didn't get linked. I put a list of all 6 posts at end.

benjiboyo said:
The bulk update request #5074 has been rejected.

create implication young_male (45629) -> young (240446)
create implication young_male (45629) -> male (2539796)
create implication shota (37397) -> young_male (45629)
create implication young_female (39020) -> young (240446)
create implication young_female (39020) -> female (2580287)
create implication loli (31266) -> young_female (39020)
create implication young_intersex (1228) -> young (240446)
create implication young_intersex (1228) -> intersex (249747)
create implication young_gynomorph (479) -> young (240446)
create implication young_gynomorph (479) -> gynomorph (196422)
create implication young_andromorph (487) -> young (240446)
create implication young_andromorph (487) -> andromorph (23838)
create implication young_herm (160) -> young (240446)
create implication young_herm (160) -> herm (27671)
create implication young_maleherm (71) -> young (240446)
create implication young_maleherm (71) -> maleherm (4569)
create implication young_ambiguous (4403) -> young (240446)
create implication young_ambiguous (4403) -> ambiguous_gender (317264)

Reason: cont, the implications

The bulk update request #5342 has been rejected.

create implication young_herm (160) -> young_intersex (1228)
create implication young_maleherm (71) -> young_intersex (1228)
create implication young_andromorph (487) -> young_intersex (1228)
create implication young_gynomorph (479) -> young_intersex (1228)
create implication young_intersex (1228) -> young (240446)
create implication young_intersex (1228) -> intersex (249747)
create implication young_male (45629) -> male (2539796)
create implication young_male (45629) -> young (240446)
create implication young_female (39020) -> female (2580287)
create implication young_female (39020) -> young (240446)

From here
It looks like I need to edit this a bit?

I kinda feel like we ought to do away with the the loli -> female and shota -> male (oh, I guess that already isn't implied) implications entirely. I think the tags would be more useful if they could be applied to intersex characters, especially since subtags like oppai_loli exist, which already gets improperly applied to young intersex characters fairly often.

sipothac said:
I kinda feel like we ought to do away with the the loli -> female and shota -> male implications entirely. I think the tags would be more useful if they could be applied to intersex characters, especially with subtags like oppai_loli existing .

I don't really understand what you're saying.
I'm not sure you can do that to Japanese terminology. They don't have a term for young intersex. This site is a respectable source: Tofugu
Loli is soley little girls while shota implies little boys.
Not Young Males or Young Females neither

because Young Females is Yuri, while young males is Shounen

I should also add that Loli and Shota are more of a genre specific thing (Like Goths & Nuns) not a gender thing.
It's like Loli girl is becuase she is a girl that looks like a child. Not because she is a child.
This doesn't translate well for western audiences. Tsumaki from One Punch Man makes a good example

closetpossum said:
I don't really understand what you're saying.
I'm not sure you can do that to Japanese terminology. They don't have a term for young intersex. This site is a respectable source: Tofugu
Loli is soley little girls while shota implies little boys.
Not Young Males or Young Females neither

because Young Females is Yuri, while young males is Shounen

I should also add that Loli and Shota are more of a genre specific thing (Like Goths & Nuns) not a gender thing.
It's like Loli girl is becuase she is a girl that looks like a child. Not because she is a child.
This doesn't translate well for western audiences. Tsumaki from One Punch Man makes a good example

Young female is shoujo not yuri, that'd be a lesbian pairing

Loli and shota aren't the genre, add con to the end and you get the genre, the correct word would be body type.
the words themselves are pretty weird, they could be adjectives or nouns really.

benjiboyo said:
Young female is shoujo not yuri, that'd be a lesbian pairing

Loli and shota aren't the genre, add con to the end and you get the genre, the correct word would be body type.
the words themselves are pretty weird, they could be adjectives or nouns really.

yeah sorry, got my words mixed. I typed faster than my brain processing speed. thanks for the assist.
I think ya got what I meant to say though right?

sipothac said:
I kinda feel like we ought to do away with the the loli -> female and shota -> male (oh, I guess that already isn't implied) implications entirely. I think the tags would be more useful if they could be applied to intersex characters, especially since subtags like oppai_loli exist, which already gets improperly applied to young intersex characters fairly often.

post #3958593
Hilariously, I dodged the bullet on that one. It is tagged with male because of TWYS, but the character is maleherm. Mahou Shoujo AKA Magical Girl (and boy in this case) is a transformation/clothing genre, kinda-sorta? It's been years since I've watched much of it. This doesn't have a Shota tag on it, anyways, though. But if it did... yeah, too bad that it's not a body type like andromorph/male/maleherm or gynomorph/female/herm. Would be nice for tagging but not technically correct, from discussions here haha.

I love (some) goth designs, BTW. The artists get to play with clothing styles that are... elaborate compared to most. See also: Super hero genre, Transformers, etc. I bet it's the height of frustration and fun to do that kind of stuff. Although I wonder about "motherf***ing hands/hair!" and backgrounds that some artists struggle with. ;)

Yeah, yuri is pretty much the definition of the young (female) couples genre.

The bulk update request #5074 (forum #368468) has been rejected by @Benjiboyo.

I've gone through all the tags in BUR #5073 and verified that every post is either tagged cub or an appropriate young_form tag, so it should now be safe to approve.

The bulk update request #5986 is active.

create alias feral_cub (2) -> young_feral (22994)
create alias anthro_cub (0) -> young_anthro (153031)
create alias taur_cub (0) -> young_taur (208)

Reason: Found these along the way. anthro_cub has a long history of usage even though it is currently blank. taur_cub has never been used, but is included for completeness.

EDIT: The bulk update request #5986 (forum #383538) has been approved by @slyroon.

The bulk update request #5986 (forum #383538) has been approved by @slyroon.

benjiboyo said:
The bulk update request #5074 has been rejected.

create implication young_male (45629) -> young (240446)
create implication young_male (45629) -> male (2539796)
create implication shota (37397) -> young_male (45629)
create implication young_female (39020) -> young (240446)
create implication young_female (39020) -> female (2580287)
create implication loli (31266) -> young_female (39020)
create implication young_intersex (1228) -> young (240446)
create implication young_intersex (1228) -> intersex (249747)
create implication young_gynomorph (479) -> young (240446)
create implication young_gynomorph (479) -> gynomorph (196422)
create implication young_andromorph (487) -> young (240446)
create implication young_andromorph (487) -> andromorph (23838)
create implication young_herm (160) -> young (240446)
create implication young_herm (160) -> herm (27671)
create implication young_maleherm (71) -> young (240446)
create implication young_maleherm (71) -> maleherm (4569)
create implication young_ambiguous (4403) -> young (240446)
create implication young_ambiguous (4403) -> ambiguous_gender (317264)

Reason: cont, the implications

EDIT: The bulk update request #5074 (forum #368468) has been rejected by @Benjiboyo.

Why the rejection? The two BURs seemed pretty sound. (Besides the loli and shota implication)

snpthecat said:
Why the rejection? The two BURs seemed pretty sound. (Besides the loli and shota implication)

alphamule's didn't have the shota and loli one

benjiboyo said:
alphamule's didn't have the shota and loli one

Yeah, been asking for advice on editing or flat out rejecting them. Thanks! It would have just set there blocking non-obsolete scripts. The bitrot is real!
Oh hell, I thought it was one of mine, carry on. ;) Yeah, I actually misread that at first and was kind of confused at wording.
Yeah, other than the shota/loli implications, that one makes sense. Sigh...

Hmm, 5986 makes a lot of sense, as well. We're just dealing with a lot of BURs and big tagging projects ATM. Finally got approved. :thumbs_up:

The bulk update request #5073 (forum #368467) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.