As the title suggests. I want a way to blacklist only pedophilia content specifically. I'm sure this has been discussed before but couldn't find a working answer while searching.
The default suggestion of adding "young -rating:safe" to the blacklist blocks things that have explicit depictions of adults alongside safe depictions of young characters. An example would be a comic page with two adult characters fucking and then showing the resulting children in a innocent manner.
In theory the following blacklist could mostly take care of this but that isn't the case:
young solo -rating:safe
young_on_young
adult_on_young
young_penetrated
young_penetrating

I saw the suggestion to use loli and shota, so I've been tagging those when I see it, but those are gender specific tags that implicate their respective genders, so it's useless with ambiguous and intersex characters. They also never seem to get used because they mean something more than just "sexualized young person". It doesn't occur to people to tag it on feral characters for example.

Now I enjoy this content a lot so I'm pretty used to the tags that are and aren't used, so let me apply my knowledge to help you avoid it (lol):

loli, shota, cub, teenager and any other tags directly referring to one's age being below 18 imply young, so young is your catchall for that (unless teenager is fine by you, then you will have to add all tags listed on the wiki page for young).

even ignoring that, loli and shota are rarely used, but seem to be more common for human posts (maybe people crossposting from danbooru and gelbooru).

EVEN IGNORING THAT there are plenty of safe posts with loli or shota tags so you might as well just use young, since they imply that anyways.

More useful suggestions for tags that explicitly sexualize minors:
exposure_to_minor
age_difference young
*_on_young (replace adult_on_young and young_on_young)

There's no way to perfectly block basically anything.
If you want to be sure you don't see sexualized young characters, young -rating:safe is simply the best way to do it. Yes, there will be some other content blocked as well, but this is the only way to get the vast majority of that content.
If you don't care as much, then your current blacklist plus the changes Magikarp suggested are about as good as you can get, without blacklisting other content as well.

this is what loli and shota are meant for. so, in a perfect world blacklisting those should do it, but unleas they're always tagged perfectly there's going to be some leaks.

sipothac said:
this is what loli and shota are meant for. so, in a perfect world blacklisting those should do it, but unleas they're always tagged perfectly there's going to be some leaks.

That is not what loli and shota are used for in practice, there are safe solo images with those tags that have no other indication of pedophilia. Those tags are effectively the same as cub, teenager, young, etc. so simplifying it all with the umbrella tag for minors, young, would make their blacklisting easier.

Ultimately it is up to whether they want to have a guaranteed comfortable experience when the blacklist is on, or if they don't mind seeing the odd post that slips through their blacklist in exchange for seeing a couple more risque posts featuring underaged characters. People are generally curious so I don't blame them for tolerating a little of bad content in the hope that the good content that you are less likely to miss would outweigh that.

When it comes to personal comfortability I prefer to go in with a looser blacklist and tag stuff as I see it. But I run into stuff like a child of ambiguous gender interacting with a mostly unseen character and there's not really any tag I could put on it. I wish there was a more broad catch-all like an umbrella version of the loli/shota tags like how other contentious topics have separate tags for non-sexual and sexual instances like feces vs scat.

Also for some reason blacklisting *_on_young doesn't work on young_on_young?

oopsitripped said:
When it comes to personal comfortability I prefer to go in with a looser blacklist and tag stuff as I see it. But I run into stuff like a child of ambiguous gender interacting with a mostly unseen character and there's not really any tag I could put on it. I wish there was a more broad catch-all like an umbrella version of the loli/shota tags like how other contentious topics have separate tags for non-sexual and sexual instances like feces vs scat.

Also for some reason blacklisting *_on_young doesn't work on young_on_young?

If I'm not mistaken, wildcards aren't supported on the blacklist.

m3g4p0n1 said:
If I'm not mistaken, wildcards aren't supported on the blacklist.

ah, my bad. Fortunately there's only three tags (that are actually in use)

older_on_young
adult_on_young
young_on_young

I've been trying to tag the more niche young_X and Y_young tags, especially for the more extreme fetishes (i.e. rape), but it's ongoing job. :tired:

Doing a tag search for all *young* tags should give you plenty to add to your list. Just add the ones that seem relevant and ignore others: https://e621.net/tags?commit=Search&search%5Bhide_empty%5D=0&search%5Bname_matches%5D=%2Ayoung%2A&search%5Border%5D=count It should be obvious that the earlier examples are more effective than ones that only have 100 posts or the like

https://e621.net/posts?tags=dominant_young++rating%3Asafe
https://e621.net/posts?tags=young_domination++rating%3Asafe And yes, we're working on the dom&sub tags in another topic.

Since you don't want to filter out all un-Safe young posts, you missed stuff like fingering that doesn't indicate penetration.

*cub* I think that adult_on_cub is about to become adult_on_young + cub, BTW. The reasoning is that it's currently a mess and far less of a PITA to just have the different age groups separated, and single tag for cub or the like per post. I got brought to this thinking after reading comments and doing some basic comparisons of search results. I suspect it's also more effective for locking tags.

magikarp said:
That is not what loli and shota are used for in practice, there are safe solo images with those tags that have no other indication of pedophilia. Those tags are effectively the same as cub, teenager, young, etc. so simplifying it all with the umbrella tag for minors, young, would make their blacklisting easier.

Then it's used wrong. Loli and shota are supposed to be tags exclusively for non safe young characters.but they're both underused AND missused despite being in the global blacklist.

But my problem also comes from the lack of intersex equivelants of these tags. I've long long ago made a suggestion for a new theoretical tag called "sexualized_young" as the new replacement for the global blacklist, but the work load for implementing and re tagging and etc. Would have been herculean.

Point is, there currently is no perfect solution, and getting to that is also near impossible.

benjiboyo said:
Then it's used wrong. Loli and shota are supposed to be tags exclusively for non safe young characters.but they're both underused AND missused despite being in the global blacklist.

But my problem also comes from the lack of intersex equivelants of these tags. I've long long ago made a suggestion for a new theoretical tag called "sexualized_young" as the new replacement for the global blacklist, but the work load for implementing and re tagging and etc. Would have been herculean.

Point is, there currently is no perfect solution, and getting to that is also near impossible.

I am just stating how it used in practice, you should never rely on the wiki as it only describes intention or at some point was edited by someone else who did not give much thought (having shota/loli imply a sexual nature to a post would be strange because the other tags describing age do not necessitate a sexual nature. It would be easier to remove the sexual requirement from the wiki pages to reflect this than to fix all the posts, people can filter ratings if they want to see safe/explicit posts specifically.)

As for intersex equivalent tags, you would be creating hybrid tags, which are somewhat contentious afaik because there's probably hundreds of thousands of hybrid tags that could be reasonably added, but it's impractical to add them and create wiki pages, aliasing, and implications for all of them. Not to mention that with the way the tagging system works and the amount of inaccuracy and missing tags already present, it wouldn't add much functionality to this site.

Somewhat off-topic, but my point about tags not being consistently is doubly true when they become more specific. I browse cub stuff a lot and I can tell you that many tags that I wish were present, like age_difference, adult_on_cub, older/younger_male/female are not present on posts where they should be and are present on posts where they should (ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR OLDER/YOUNGER TAGS, WHICH SHOULDN'T BE ON SOLO IMAGES, BUT ARE)).

ALSO, YOUNG IS SOMETIMES USED WHEN A CHARACTER IS NOT VISOBLY A MINOR AND IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE AN ADULT IF NOT A TEENAGER, BUT ISN'T EVEN TAGGED AS TEENAGER.

So yeah, even as someone that's looking specifically, for this content, I miss a lot of posts and get a lot of false positives when using searches like young older_male, so your blacklist will not become any more accurate by including these tags because the reality is that these tags are used inaccurately to begin with.

magikarp said:
I am just stating how it used in practice, you should never rely on the wiki as it only describes intention or at some point was edited by someone else who did not give much thought (having shota/loli imply a sexual nature to a post would be strange because the other tags describing age do not necessitate a sexual nature. It would be easier to remove the sexual requirement from the wiki pages to reflect this than to fix all the posts, people can filter ratings if they want to see safe/explicit posts specifically.)

As for intersex equivalent tags, you would be creating hybrid tags, which are somewhat contentious afaik because there's probably hundreds of thousands of hybrid tags that could be reasonably added, but it's impractical to add them and create wiki pages, aliasing, and implications for all of them. Not to mention that with the way the tagging system works and the amount of inaccuracy and missing tags already present, it wouldn't add much functionality to this site.

Somewhat off-topic, but my point about tags not being consistently is doubly true when they become more specific. I browse cub stuff a lot and I can tell you that many tags that I wish were present, like age_difference, adult_on_cub, older/younger_male/female are not present on posts where they should be and are present on posts where they should (ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR OLDER/YOUNGER TAGS, WHICH SHOULDN'T BE ON SOLO IMAGES, BUT ARE)).

ALSO, YOUNG IS SOMETIMES USED WHEN A CHARACTER IS NOT VISOBLY A MINOR AND IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE AN ADULT IF NOT A TEENAGER, BUT ISN'T EVEN TAGGED AS TEENAGER.

So yeah, even as someone that's looking specifically, for this content, I miss a lot of posts and get a lot of false positives when using searches like young older_male, so your blacklist will not become any more accurate by including these tags because the reality is that these tags are used inaccurately to begin with.

Hmm, I guess the admins could tweak the global blacklist to have -rating:s for loli and shota?

alphamule said:
Hmm, I guess the admins could tweak the global blacklist to have -rating:s for loli and shota?

That could be done, but loli and shota are already on the global blacklist while ~cub ~child ~teenager etc. are all allowed, despite their usage in practice being the same.

Would it not be better to just remove the NSFW requirement from the wiki for shota/loli?

Or even better, just alias them to young_male/young_female because they are applicable to more than one age group so they don't seem to add any meaningful specificity or meaning that differs from young_male/female.

Other tags that came from japanese like futanari, which are notoriously nonspecific in usage to the extent that they're identical to some other tag like intersex.

I will create a new thread later regarding this since loli and shota tags seem unnecessary in the same way that the futa tag was, feel free to do it for me though lol.

magikarp said:
That could be done, but loli and shota are already on the global blacklist while ~cub ~child ~teenager etc. are all allowed, despite their usage in practice being the same.

Would it not be better to just remove the NSFW requirement from the wiki for shota/loli?

Yeah, was kind of the point I guess. If they're not always rated:e/q, anyways... This tagging project is DOA. Sometimes we have to educate/correct tag usage, and other times it is obvious that the tags themselves are problematic. I'm tending to lean towards the latter in this case. Allowing to view them only when rating = safe would at least work sanely.

Or even better, just alias them to young_male/young_female because they are applicable to more than one age group so they don't seem to add any meaningful specificity or meaning that differs from young_male/female.

Or that. :D

Other tags that came from japanese like futanari, which are notoriously nonspecific in usage to the extent that they're identical to some other tag like intersex.

I will create a new thread later regarding this since loli and shota tags seem unnecessary in the same way that the futa tag was, feel free to do it for me though lol.

Annoyingly, shota can be a body type. Like one post I made that the character appears male but is in fact maleherm. The outfit and pose would definitely get tagged shota on Japanese sites, I think. Moot point for shota applying since it's tagged male, anyways. And of course magical_Y tags and friends are yet another mess that post showed me.

I'll start a cleanup thread for shota/loli. It's going to be a mess because sometimes it is used for appropriate male/female tags, other times for body types ala andromorph=maleherm=male group that often have overlap in appearance. It's not uncommon for the same character to get tagged with all 3 of those depending on what genitals are visible, if any. The rule seems to be if you see a masculine build, and no genitals in a safe-ratedd post, default to male, right?

I've been going into the young tag with this blacklist in an attempt to clean up:
loli
shota
young solo -rating:s
adult_on_young
young_on_young -rating:s
exposure_to_minor
age_difference young
young_penetrated
young_raped

For some reason the cub tags don't always imply the young version of the tag but from what I'm hearing they're going to be aliased away. I don't know if it's necessary to clean them up.

I think an ideal solution would be to unalias pedophilia from young to be used for this purpose and maybe split it by age group.

oopsitripped said:
I've been going into the young tag with this blacklist in an attempt to clean up:
loli
shota
young solo -rating:s
adult_on_young
young_on_young -rating:s
exposure_to_minor
age_difference young
young_penetrated
young_raped

For some reason the cub tags don't always imply the young version of the tag but from what I'm hearing they're going to be aliased away. I don't know if it's necessary to clean them up.

I think an ideal solution would be to unalias pedophilia from young to be used for this purpose and maybe split it by age group.

yeah I made a BUR forever ago that fixed that (and many many other age_on_age tags but never submitted it.

oopsitripped said:
I think an ideal solution would be to unalias pedophilia from young to be used for this purpose and maybe split it by age group.

No chance sadly, between the dual threat of people trying to use it in good faith on solo young posts much the way they try to use gay on solo male posts now, and other people using it in bad faith on posts they don't like. It would be re-invalidated within the year.

wat8548 said:
No chance sadly, between the dual threat of people trying to use it in good faith on solo young posts much the way they try to use gay on solo male posts now, and other people using it in bad faith on posts they don't like. It would be re-invalidated within the year.

That, and adult_on_young is effectively the same thing with a much more self-descriptive name.