Any tips on making comics? Both Digitally and Traditionally? Threading/spitballing here.

Don't draw like shit.

Ozelot said:
Don't draw like shit.

Only an artist could be so helpful!

From what I've seen, besides drawing decently, you need to define your layout. I'd recommend looking at some comics. Also, dialog. Not always needed, though.

Durandal said:
Only an artist could be so helpful!

We are superior.

But honestly, you have to have incredible drawing skills to make comics. Comics are one of the hardest things you can draw, and a lot of people don't realize this. They see snoopy and assume it is easy. I see way too many people who try to make comics with subpar drawing skills and it just makes me chuckle, as everything they make comes off as horrible failures.

Don't even try unless you can pretty much draw nearly everything effortlessly and near-flawlessly.

Find a style that fits you and try not to deviate from it too far. It's okay to evolve and improve but don't enter unfamiliar territory when making a comic. Know where you want your story to go before making it. One huge problem with mangakka is that they may end up just making stuff up along the way causing continuity errors, ignored characters, and plot holes. Lastly, tell your story. Don't let "fans" deter what you want to illustrate.

Ozelot said:
We are superior.

But honestly, you have to have incredible drawing skills to make comics. Comics are one of the hardest things you can draw, and a lot of people don't realize this. They see snoopy and assume it is easy. I see way too many people who try to make comics with subpar drawing skills and it just makes me chuckle, as everything they make comes off as horrible failures.

Don't even try unless you can pretty much draw nearly everything effortlessly and near-flawlessly.

*facepalm*

Durandal said:
Only an artist could be so helpful!

*Snicker*

Ozelot said:
Don't even try unless you can pretty much draw nearly everything effortlessly and near-flawlessly.

Once again, you completely miss the point of both 'art' and 'professionalism'.

Pay an allready good artist to do the comic for you. Its called a commission.

heres some things i have learned from my comic studies (some of these tips are from professional comic artists):

- start with plot. you have to have entire thing planned before you start drawing anything. write down all events and lines in movie script style.
- make storyboard. like small preview versions of each page where you plan general composition, speech bubble placing and so on
- show your work to others before you start inking and coloring. dont be afraid of changing things.
- make sure that everything is so clear that even your grandmother could understand whats going on in your comic
- kill your darlings. dont be afraid to remove the things you love from your comic if they ruin everything and just doesnt work.
- dont shove in too much text in each speech bubble
- write the text before you draw speech bubbles
- dont use comic sans

savageorange said:
Once again, you completely miss the point of both 'art' and 'professionalism'.

Meh, by all means, make something when you don't even know what you are doing. Though everything you create will come off as lazy crap to people.

Ozelot said:
Meh, by all means, make something when you don't even know what you are doing. Though everything you create will come off as lazy crap to people.

Or maybe, make a comic, get constructive critique and learn from it? Your logic: "Don't try skateboarding unless you are already a pro skater"

Ozelot said:
Meh, by all means, make something when you don't even know what you are doing. Though everything you create will come off as lazy crap to people.

hey, everyone starts from something. you dont instantly become master at everything. you need years of being shitty artist to become good artist. stop discouraging people to draw just because they are not instantly good. when i started drawing, i didnt instantly get the art skills i have now , it took me years of being shitty artist
i wouldnt be sitting here sending applications to game designing schools if i had stopped drawing at 2012 just because back then i didnt know what i was doing and my art was shitty and came off as lazy crap to people.

silentstorm said:
Pay an allready good artist to do the comic for you. Its called a commission.

Not everyone has money or have a job. :V

Ozelot said:
We are superior.

But honestly, you have to have incredible drawing skills to make comics. Comics are one of the hardest things you can draw, and a lot of people don't realize this. They see snoopy and assume it is easy. I see way too many people who try to make comics with subpar drawing skills and it just makes me chuckle, as everything they make comes off as horrible failures.

Don't even try unless you can pretty much draw nearly everything effortlessly and near-flawlessly.

Weren't you that has been from my other forum that I've made last fall?

My questions:

1) Is script writing a best way to ease concentration of what you are writing?

2) Traditionally, how much big paper do you need to draw boxes (panels?) And what technique do I need to use to pencil them out?

3) Digitally, what program is best use to use speech bubbles? As well as traditional art? Because with traditional, it feels tricky.

Ponynstuff320 said:
My questions:

1) Is script writing a best way to ease concentration of what you are writing?

2) Traditionally, how much big paper do you need to draw boxes (panels?) And what technique do I need to use to pencil them out?

3) Digitally, what program is best use to use speech bubbles? As well as traditional art? Because with traditional, it feels tricky.

1) i do not really understand this question, could you put it in simple english and i might be able to give you answer

2) all paper size stuff depends on your personal preferences. some find it easier to work on larger paper (like A3) and some like to work on smaller (like A4. i personally prefer A4). it really doesnt matter unless you are going to print it. And all you need is pencil, ruler (for lines and marking where the lines go. decide how far away from the edge of paper the outer lines are and how much there is room between panels) and something for inking if you are going to scan it.

3) There might be some programs that are able to create ready speech bubbles but basically they have to be drawn manually. The trick is to put the text in place before drawing speech bubbles. The text placement should somewhat resemble the shape of speech bubbles. Round text placement for round speech bubbles and square shaped text placement for square shaped speech bubbles.

im comic major, dont hesitate to ask comic realted questions from me :)

Mutisija said:
1) i do not really understand this question, could you put it in simple english and i might be able to give you answer

2) all paper size stuff depends on your personal preferences. some find it easier to work on larger paper (like A3) and some like to work on smaller (like A4. i personally prefer A4). it really doesnt matter unless you are going to print it. And all you need is pencil, ruler (for lines and marking where the lines go. decide how far away from the edge of paper the outer lines are and how much there is room between panels) and something for inking if you are going to scan it.

3) There might be some programs that are able to create ready speech bubbles but basically they have to be drawn manually. The trick is to put the text in place before drawing speech bubbles. The text placement should somewhat resemble the shape of speech bubbles. Round text placement for round speech bubbles and square shaped text placement for square shaped speech bubbles.

im comic major, dont hesitate to ask comic realted questions from me :)

I type too fast. I speak English well, I just type too fast. For number 1, what I meant to say was that is it better for you to have a comic script than just drawing things that are in your head of what the characters are speaking? And the enviorment are they are in?

Ponynstuff320 said:
I type too fast. I speak English well, I just type too fast. For number 1, what I meant to say was that is it better for you to have a comic script than just drawing things that are in your head of what the characters are speaking? And the enviorment are they are in?

it depends on what works for you best, but at least create some kind of rough, easily editable version of you comic before actually starting to draw. for me it works best to just create storyboard/thumbnails of the pages and roughly slap there the composition and lines and then read the whole thing and make necessary changes afterwards. some people need to write full movie script styled comic script before doing the storyboard/thumbnail work.

*Quietly takes notes on everything Mutisija says because it will probably come in handy soon*

Tokaido said:
*Quietly takes notes on everything Mutisija says because it will probably come in handy soon*

furrypickle said:
Apparently, I'm not the only one doing that then...

Same with me

So hey, I can't say I have much comic experience or learning like Mutisija, but there's one thing I can definitely say. I don't think that the quality of art matters as much as long as you have a good story, and vise versa.

If there's anything I've learned working in the indie scene it's that you need to focus on what you do well, and don't worry about the other areas as much. In video games, AAA games can focus on each and every aspect, having good writing, good art, and good gameplay, but indie devs usually have to pic just one of those things and let everything else slide. Look at Super Meat Boy for example, great gameplay, no real story, and passable but certainly not awe inspiring graphics. Or look at Super Brothers: Swords and Sorcery, it has wonderful retro art, but a forgettable story, and point/click gameplay. They pick one area to be awesome in, then let that carry them. The same goes for comics, an indie comic can be good if they focus on their strengths, but only AAA comics have the time/resources to focus on every aspect and turn out well.

Examples
Ava's Demon Great visuals, good characters, okay story
Goblins Great story, good characters, okay art.
Dominic Deegan Great characters, good story, okay art.

Last but not least, if you start drawing a comic and get passionate about it, you'll improve as you go. I could give so many examples here, like Ctrl+alt+delete, or Penny Arcade, but my absolute favorite would be Ian McConville's work. First page, final page.

Every time Ozelot opens his mouth I'm unsure if I should pity him or laugh at him.

Also, more examples of just "do what you enjoy and you will eventually get better": Questionable Content First page vs Page 2907

And the author can draw better than Ozelot as well.
Coincidence? I think not.

At least questionable content can draw more than 1 pose :|

LMAO, I draw way better than that. And I draw all kinds of poses. I'm pretty much perfect as an artist.

It's interesting to see an admin get angry and insult people, though.

People usually get angry when the hard truths get spoken. Coincidence? I think not!

(also, I'm a girl)

Mutisija said:
hey, everyone starts from something. you dont instantly become master at everything. you need years of being shitty artist to become good artist. stop discouraging people to draw just because they are not instantly good. when i started drawing, i didnt instantly get the art skills i have now , it took me years of being shitty artist
i wouldnt be sitting here sending applications to game designing schools if i had stopped drawing at 2012 just because back then i didnt know what i was doing and my art was shitty and came off as lazy crap to people.

Trying to draw comics when you can't draw tons of things exceptionally is like trying to build sky-scrapers when you can't even draft. You can probably put some of the beams up and it might get pretty tall, but ultimately you are doomed to failure. Another thing is you have to have good writing skills or your stories will just be crap. Not many artists can combine the drawing abilities and story-telling to make comics work, which makes it even more difficult than people realize. I see many popular artists who only draw porn comics because they really can't write and nobody would care if it wasn't porn.

You have to walk before you can run.

http://www.lackadaisycats.com/gallery.php

Here is a true non-shit-tier webcomic artist. Obviously she had tons of formal training and stuff before she even started her comic and everyone pretty much loves it. Check on some of her tutorials or other work for some good general advice.

Ozelot said:
LMAO, I draw way better than that. And I draw all kinds of poses. I'm pretty much perfect as an artist.

It's interesting to see an admin get angry and insult people, though.

People usually get angry when the hard truths get spoken. Coincidence? I think not!

(also, I'm a girl)

Don't do drugs, kids!

Ozelot said:
LMAO, I draw way better than that. And I draw all kinds of poses. I'm pretty much perfect as an artist.

People usually get angry when the hard truths get spoken. Coincidence? I think not!

I don't think even drugs could make me feel this euphoric.

TheHuskyK9 said:
Don't do drugs, kids!

Kind of off-topic there, Husk. But opium is fucking awesome. Ever want to just OD and kill yourself, I'd say that'd be the way to go.

Ozelot said:
Kind of off-topic there, Husk. But opium is fucking awesome. Ever want to just OD and kill yourself, I'd say that'd be the way to go.

Is that a threat?

TheHuskyK9 said:
Is that a threat?

That question doesn't even make sense.

Ozelot said:
That question doesn't even make sense.

Ever want to just OD and kill yourself, I'd say that'd be the way to go.

Is this a threat?

TheHuskyK9 said:
Is this a threat?

Of what?

Ozelot said:
Of what?

I'll paraphrase it by exaggerating it a bit: "If you wanted to kill yourself, this would be the way to do it *cough cough*"

Ozelot said:
Of what?

Not going to ask again

Oh. I don't think the word "Threat" even applies there. A threat is a supposed direct action of violence against somebody. You can't "threaten" somebody with suicide because they do it to themselves really, unless you're talking about doing it to yourself. Threats are meaningless on the internet anyways, and I would never do one.

But I was just saying in general. Opium activates euphoria in your brain to the max and pretty much removes all pain.

But this is totally off-topic, I don't even know why Husky brought it up.

Ozelot said:
I don't even know why Husky brought it up.

>Threatens an admin
>Blames it on admin

TheHuskyK9 said:
>Threatens an admin
>Blames it on admin

Nobody threatened you, rofl.

You brought up the off-topic drug thing.

Ozelot said:
Nobody threatened you, rofl.

You brought up the off-topic drug thing.

Do you know what a 'joke' is?

Both of you, knock it off.

Fine. Sorry. I'll discuss the topic.

Okay.... Wow... Um... This is an art talk thread, not going batshit threat terroristic some or other the fuck threat. Isn't this type of spitball should be in the General tag?

Ponynstuff320 said:
Okay.... Wow... Um... This is an art talk thread, not going batshit threat terroristic some or other the fuck threat. Isn't this type of spitball should be in the General tag?

My advice for traditional comics: Write the words neatly as possible. The art can be good and stuff but poor handwriting kinda ruins it imo

TheHuskyK9 said:
My advice for traditional comics: Write the words neatly as possible. The art can be good and stuff but poor handwriting kinda ruins it imo

Traditional Mangakka write out each letter by hand as neatly as possible while asides (little comments made by a person not in a speech bubble or author notes) are written in standard handwriting. Eiichiro Oda explains that he used to do it the traditional way but he now uses editing software to write text as it eliminates any issues people may have with an author's handwriting though he still draws everything else by hand.

This is the one I use in photoshop
http://www.1001fonts.com/anime-ace-font.html

Ozelot said:
LMAO, I draw way better than that. And I draw all kinds of poses. I'm pretty much perfect as an artist.

That guy is much better at anatomy and shading than you likely ever will be, for the simple reason that he doesn't follow "I only learned to draw to make money off of horny Bastards" and then got disappointed because nobody liked his stuff.

You're pretty much the rob liefield of the furry fandom, just less commissioned.
Your anatomy is fucked (waists and spines don't work that way), you don't shade anything anymore because you never managed to make it look right and you never draw any sort of hands or feet, and if you do they look bad.

But I guess that is "perfect".

Ozelot said:

It's interesting to see an admin get angry and insult people, though.

People usually get angry when the hard truths get spoken. Coincidence? I think not!

(also, I'm a girl)

Expressing the desire to either pity or laugh at you is not insulting you.

Also, what hard truths? Just because you believe something doesn't make it a truth.
But I guess I'll try to remember your gender?

Back on topic, if there is a library in your town check if they have some literature on the topic, I remember seeing a couple books in mine.

My advice?

Just do it.

Everything else is just details.

It doesn't matter whether you've planned everything to the last detail or end up making most of it up on the fly, nor does it matter if you're better than da Vinci or have the skills of a toddler, if you never start in the first place. Your efforts won't be perfect because the only perfect comics are those never started, but at least people will be able to look at it (comprehending it is a different matter, but that's just details).

Clawstripe said:
My advice?

Just do it.

Everything else is just details.

It doesn't matter whether you've planned everything to the last detail or end up making most of it up on the fly, nor does it matter if you're better than da Vinci or have the skills of a toddler, if you never start in the first place. Your efforts won't be perfect because the only perfect comics are those never started, but at least people will be able to look at it (comprehending it is a different matter, but that's just details).

I think it somewhat depends on your temperament. If you're prone to overthinking things, just do it. If, like me, you're prone to 'just doing it' -- acting all the time without thinking it out well -- you probably need to sit down and make yourself think about it. But only after you've actually started. Everything is easier once you've started. Starting makes things seem possible.

XKCD is an example of a good and simple comics. Just find your own style.

I don't think you need a perfect artist to draw good comics.

Ozelot said:
I'm pretty much perfect as an artist.

interesting. i can pretty safely say that i am better artist than you and still im definitely not perfect artist :V
here is a small advice: you will never be perfect as an artist, there is always something you can improve.

anyways about the original topic: i am comic student, just throw questions at me and i will gladly share my knowledge.

Mutisija said:
interesting. i can pretty safely say that i am better artist than you [...]

You know what? I agree.

Mutisija said:
interesting. i can pretty safely say that i am better artist than you and still im definitely not perfect artist :V
here is a small advice: you will never be perfect as an artist, there is always something you can improve.

anyways about the original topic: i am comic student, just throw questions at me and i will gladly share my knowledge.

No way man, I'm far better than you. Show me one thing you've drawn and I'll find plenty wrong with it.

But no, you kind of CAN be a 'perfect' artist. This is something people don't realize. The thing is that even if you are 'perfect' at whatever art niche you happen to fill, there will always be people who just don't like your art because it doesn't fit their ideal of whatever art should be.

The problem is more that art is totally subjective, and everyone has their fucking opinions and they all stink, but they will never ever let go of them.

Perfect example: Show a room full of people some really well drawn gay furry porn and they'll probably freak out and complain that it's too 'pornographic' and that it's not 'real art.' But show that to furries and they love it.

Or that notmenotyou guy expressing his opinion above that I'm bad like it's a fact or something, when really that's just his opinion. Whether I decide to care or not about what he says is totally optional on my part. There are plenty of people who simply think I'm incredible no matter how much I tell them no, my art is really quite awful, and constantly begging me for commissions despite his one opinion on the matter. Or all the art teachers I've had who agree that I'm one of the hardest working students they've ever had. These people can't be convinced that I'm bad any more than he could be convinced I'm good, as he's already made up his mind about the fact that he doesn't like me or anything I do.

Basically, there will always be those unpleaseable people shouting their opinions from the roof tops. It's not so much that artist's crafts are imperfect as are people's tastes.

In my opinion, which is definitely objective fact, anyone who wants to try and emulate Tom Fischbach or whatever his name was instead of T.J. Butler is just awful. But some people do it any way.

Ozelot said:
No way man, I'm far better than you. Show me one thing you've drawn and I'll find plenty wrong with it.

i didnt say that my art is flawless. i am well aware that my drawings have flaws and there is still plenty to improve.
as i said, my art is not perfect but i am better than you. i have better grasp of color theory and shading than you, characters in my drawings have generally better anatomy and proportions than the characters in your drawings.

heres some of my drawings:
x x x x x x

Mutisija said:
i didnt say that my art is flawless. i am well aware that my drawings have flaws and there is still plenty to improve.
as i said, my art is not perfect but i am better than you. i have better grasp of color theory and shading than you, characters in my drawings have generally better anatomy and proportions than the characters in your drawings.

heres some of my drawings:
x x x x x x

Not really, you've spent more time rendering things and I've spent more time on line quality, my work has almost never been painterly-focused, mainly because I intended to branch into animating.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Mutisija said:
heres some of my drawings:
x x x x x x]

I had no idea you had so much talent.

Mutisija said:

heres some of my drawings:
x x x x x x

These are very nice. :3

Mutisija said:
heres some of my drawings:
x x x x x x

I knew you could draw but I didn't know you drew THAT awesome

Mutisija said:
heres some of my drawings:
x x x x x x

You should do a webcomic.
Your style reminds me of that one webcomic, the one with the chick that is a shark, that comes into some city with walls around it and meets a boy. I think you linked it in the blips.

Ozelot be all like

Mutisija said:
heres some of my drawings:
x x x x x x

Wow, you are very good! :)

Mutisija said:

heres some of my drawings:
x x x x x x]

<3

Ponynstuff320 said:
Ozelot be all like

lmao