alias skinsuit -> catsuit and
bodysuit -> catsuit

I think this might be another rubber/latex type debate

Like latex, catsuits are the most common term for fetish/kink bodywear that covers the wearer from head to toe in what's usually latex though it can be other materials.

Much like the latex/rubber debate, googling catsuits brings up what you'd expect: many many pictures of kink form-fitting bodywear
Googling skinsuit, however, brings up specifically form fitting clothing used for bikes. Not to mention that catsuit has its own wikipedia page.

There also needs to be some discussion on bodysuit since it's depicted as being a catsuit but an actual bodysuit is a type of clothing that looks similar to a one-piece swimsuit or leotard.

Quick note: I tried making a BUR for skinsuit -> catsuit and bodysuit -> catsuit but it already exists, apparently so it wouldn't let me post it.

Okay, this really sounds to me like you didn't even look up e621's definitions for the tags.

Catsuit got invalidated , because the term can mean either skinsuit or cat_costume. (I 100% agree with that. Some people seem to turn off their mind when they see *_suit tags.) Also, the tag is invalid since 2016. I don't see why we should waste our time with that now.

Bodysuit is defined by e6 as a skin-tight garment (skinsuit) that doesn't cover the head. If it covers more, it is a skinsuit, but no bodysuit. Simple difference. Furthermore, bodysuit's wiki page lists other options.

I also want to point out that comparing this to the latex/rubber debate... doesn't really make sense. The latex/rubber problem is that both materials look identical and thus made problems with Tag-What-You-See. What Google or Wkipedia said about that matter never played any role.

Both bodysuit and skinsuit have proper definitions and implications and are frequently used. Why should we waste our time with catsuit? For a synonym? I can't even agree to catsuit being the most common term part, I know the word from costumes and only heard it in that context. Nothing fetish related.

demonthedarkhound said:
Okay, this really sounds to me like you didn't even look up e621's definitions for the tags.

Catsuit got invalidated , because the term can mean either skinsuit or cat_costume. (I 100% agree with that. Some people seem to turn off their mind when they see *_suit tags.) Also, the tag is invalid since 2016. I don't see why we should waste our time with that now.

Bodysuit is defined by e6 as a skin-tight garment (skinsuit) that doesn't cover the head. If it covers more, it is a skinsuit, but no bodysuit. Simple difference. Furthermore, bodysuit's wiki page lists other options.

I also want to point out that comparing this to the latex/rubber debate... doesn't really make sense. The latex/rubber problem is that both materials look identical and thus made problems with Tag-What-You-See. What Google or Wkipedia said about that matter never played any role.

Both bodysuit and skinsuit have proper definitions and implications and are frequently used. Why should we waste our time with catsuit? For a synonym? I can't even agree to catsuit being the most common term part, I know the word from costumes and only heard it in that context. Nothing fetish related.

it doesn't mean skinsuit or cat costume, it has a very distinct meaning and skinsuit shouldn't even be a tag on here that's what I'm trying to say. It's just like the rubber vs latex thing again.

e6's wiki isn't the same as the actual wiki for what these suits are based off of for their IRL counterparts.
For zentai, a it's a whole body suit but a catsuit with a hood wouldn't be considered zentai and based on the number on posts that actually contain zentai (less than one page) it should be aliased to catsuit. The page also has several posts that are very clearly shiny which should be latex and others have no "hood" part at all.

Wetsuit and unitard I can't argue with because those tags fit.

hoodie_bodysuit funnily enough actually contains mostly the one-piece swimsuits type suits where as bodysuit has a lot of catsuit images mislabelled as bodysuit.

The current e6 wiki for both skinsuit and bodysuit are wrong for what they actually are and it needs to be fixed.

Latex is the same thing as rubber more or less. The thing about using it on e6 is that latex is mostly talked about as a kink material such that if you search latex_gloves you expect to see something like this rather than this

A catsuit is not a synonym. A catsuit is "a one-piece form-fitting garment that covers the torso and the legs, and frequently the arms". A bodysuit is what I've said before, and a skinsuit is used for cycling. They're 3 completely different forms of clothing.

bdanimare said:
alias skinsuit -> catsuit and
bodysuit -> catsuit

Just want to say that is not how you suggest a BUR, nothing will get approved if you type it like that.
You can request for a new BUR through this link - https://e621.net/bulk_update_requests/new
Remember to attach this forum topic's ID (i.e., 41403) into the BUR so that the discussions don't get separated into two threads.

thegreatwolfgang said:
Just want to say that is not how you suggest a BUR, nothing will get approved if you type it like that.
You can request for a new BUR through this link - https://e621.net/bulk_update_requests/new
Remember to attach this forum topic's ID (i.e., 41403) into the BUR so that the discussions don't get separated into two threads.

"I tried making a BUR for skinsuit -> catsuit and bodysuit -> catsuit but it already exists, apparently so it wouldn't let me post it."

The site literally wouldn't let me posts it because the alias already exist. The catsuit tag needs to be brought back.

bdanimare said:
"I tried making a BUR for skinsuit -> catsuit and bodysuit -> catsuit but it already exists, apparently so it wouldn't let me post it."

The site literally wouldn't let me posts it because the alias already exist. The catsuit tag needs to be brought back.

That's because catsuit as a standalone tag does not exist. It is currently aliased to catsuit_(disambiguation).
If you want to use catsuit again, you need to suggest for an unalias first through the BUR.

thegreatwolfgang said:
That's because catsuit as a standalone tag does not exist. It is currently aliased to catsuit_(disambiguation).
If you want to use catsuit again, you need to suggest for an unalias first through the BUR.

I already made a thread about aliasing bodysuit/skinsuit to catsuit. I don't think people would be happy if I made another, but if you suggest it I suppose I can.

Latex vs Rubber was mainly about the impracticality of distinguishing the two materials under the TWYS policy.

The fetish wear discussion was limited to only effecting very specific utility clothing items like medical gloves or water proof boots (which have distinct appearances from fetishwear). I could see making a tag for ‘latex’ like bodysuits that aren’t fetishwear (see https://e621.net/forum_topics/41117). I'm assuming you want some way to tag non-fetish skin-tight clothing specifically apart from “latex catsuits” as you described them. Is that accurate?

diligentdragon said:
Latex vs Rubber was mainly about the impracticality of distinguishing the two materials under the TWYS policy.

The fetish wear discussion was limited to only effecting very specific utility clothing items like medical gloves or water proof boots (which have distinct appearances from fetishwear). I could see making a tag for ‘latex’ like bodysuits that aren’t fetishwear (see https://e621.net/forum_topics/41117). I'm assuming you want some way to tag non-fetish skin-tight clothing specifically apart from “latex catsuits” as you described them. Is that accurate?

No, I'm saying that "skinsuits" should be "catsuits" instead because that's the correct term for them. Like this image is a catsuit.

bdanimare said:
No, I'm saying that "skinsuits" should be "catsuits" instead because that's the correct term for them. Like this image is a catsuit.

The image has "cat_suit" and "body_suit" though.

noobway said:
The image has "cat_suit" and "body_suit" though.

It doesn't have either of those tags. It has "bodysuit" because there is no "catsuit" tag anymore. I posted it as an example of what a catsuit is.

If this isn’t about search overlap then I don’t understand your position. Latex / fetishwear was because of TWYS (this was discussed in topic 41117 and linked topics there). But there isn’t a compelling reason to change bodysuit/skinsuit to catsuit. You need to explain/present a compelling reason for the aliases you are suggesting, for example:

(1) Show that bodysuit and/or skinsuit are ambiguous AND that catsuit is less ambiguous.
(2) Show evidence that users are mistagging bodysuit / skinsuit AND that a change to catsuit would probably help decrease the mistagging.
(3) Show evidence that existing tags aren’t comprehensive enough AND that creating or updating a tag would probably benefit user’s searches.

A name being more common is a good point but it’s not enough on its own. What matters more is the practical outcome, users were repeatedly mistagging rubber / latex / vinyl etc. and the aliases are meant to prevent that. Fetishwear latex clothes appear distinct from utility latex clothes, so the lack of implications (from utility clothes to latex clothes) was meant to avoid overlapping search results. What practical issue is an alias from skinsuit to catsuit or bodysuit to catsuit meant to address? I haven’t seen a compelling reason presented. I don’t see evidence of widespread mistagging and I don’t understand what problem this alias would solve.

diligentdragon said:
If this isn’t about search overlap then I don’t understand your position. Latex / fetishwear was because of TWYS (this was discussed in topic 41117 and linked topics there). But there isn’t a compelling reason to change bodysuit/skinsuit to catsuit. You need to explain/present a compelling reason for the aliases you are suggesting, for example:

(1) Show that bodysuit and/or skinsuit are ambiguous AND that catsuit is less ambiguous.
(2) Show evidence that users are mistagging bodysuit / skinsuit AND that a change to catsuit would probably help decrease the mistagging.
(3) Show evidence that existing tags aren’t comprehensive enough AND that creating or updating a tag would probably benefit user’s searches.

A name being more common is a good point but it’s not enough on its own. What matters more is the practical outcome, users were repeatedly mistagging rubber / latex / vinyl etc. and the aliases are meant to prevent that. Fetishwear latex clothes appear distinct from utility latex clothes, so the lack of implications (from utility clothes to latex clothes) was meant to avoid overlapping search results. What practical issue is an alias from skinsuit to catsuit or bodysuit to catsuit meant to address? I haven’t seen a compelling reason presented. I don’t see evidence of widespread mistagging and I don’t understand what problem this alias would solve.

1.) I dont know how to make it more unambiguous for the fact that catsuit, bodysuit, and skinsuit all have actual real world definitions in respected dictionaries.
2.) Almost every single post is mistagged since they're tagged as skinsuit/bodysuit when they aren't, by definition.
3.) I'll have to get back on that

Should things not be tagged as the actual name that they are?

bdanimare said:
Should things not be tagged as the actual name that they are?

They should be tagged with the proper tag, which doesn't necessarily have to be the most common name/term. Given that this is a furry art site, a term can have other meanings or be more ambiguous here than in the general public. In particular, furries are more likely to take the term "catsuit" to mean a suit that makes one look like a cat, compared to the general public. Or similarly, to the general public catty would be taken as someone saying rude or unkind words, while furries may be more likely to take it as someone acting like a cat. Or "bitch" is another word that has a common public meaning, that furries can take differently.

watsit said:
They should be tagged with the proper tag, which doesn't necessarily have to be the most common name/term. Given that this is a furry art site, a term can have other meanings or be more ambiguous here than in the general public. In particular, furries are more likely to take the term "catsuit" to mean a suit that makes one look like a cat, compared to the general public. Or similarly, to the general public catty would be taken as someone saying rude or unkind words, while furries may be more likely to take it as someone acting like a cat. Or "bitch" is another word that has a common public meaning, that furries can take differently.

I suppose that's fair. I do feel like having both bodysuit and skinsuit is redundant too.

Catsuit definitely feels like one of those tags that never needed to be disambiguated. Sure, the occasional person (especially non-native English speakers) might confuse a catsuit with a cat suit, but that's probably not all too common and it's easily fixed. Currently all 10 results for catsuit_(disambiguation) appear to be actual catsuits. Assuming Rouge's outfit is a type of catsuit, which might be debatable... but it's not a cat suit in any case. Maybe it should be its own tag, maybe not, but at the very least I think it'd be better off aliased to skinsuit/bodysuit instead of a disambiguation tag.

scaliespe said:
Catsuit definitely feels like one of those tags that never needed to be disambiguated. Sure, the occasional person (especially non-native English speakers) might confuse a catsuit with a cat suit, but that's probably not all too common and it's easily fixed. Currently all 10 results for catsuit_(disambiguation) appear to be actual catsuits. Assuming Rouge's outfit is a type of catsuit, which might be debatable... but it's not a cat suit in any case. Maybe it should be its own tag, maybe not, but at the very least I think it'd be better off aliased to skinsuit/bodysuit instead of a disambiguation tag.

That's what I was thinking. For anyone that's confused, that's exactly what e621's tag wikis are for.

Rogue is kind of a catsuit but also not really. It's a weird multi-piece design that doesn't really look like what you think of when you imagine a catsuit.

If catsuit is to get aliased, I highly suggest bodysuit rather than skinsuit.

If we want to break catsuit into its own distinct tag, it needs a well-defined wiki page that makes it clear it is more specific than bodysuit. So we need a definition which falls in line with existing tags but also includes more specific details...

I really don't see a distinct "new" tag in these posts (https://e621.net/posts?tags=catsuit_%28disambiguation%29) but maybe there is something the existing tags don't "cover"

If we want to get really granular, we technically don't have a bodysuit group tag that defines a one-piece garment which covers the torso, legs and arms. Zentai is for the whole body and head, unitard is supposed to be used for clothing covering the torso and legs (its a little mistagged atm). Bodysuit can refer to a garment which covers most of the bodysuit, but it doesn't have to.

Catsuit could hypothetically become a tag which describes a form-fitting one-piece garment which covers the torso, legs and arms. Or maybe a formfitting one-piece garment covering the torso, legs, arms, hands and feet. I don't know which of those two descriptions is better though.

In summary I think its possible to use catsuit to define a specific type of bodysuit not already covered by existing bodysuit implying tags. I don't know if doing so is necessary but maybe it could work. Would that address your concerns BDAnimare? Does that idea work for anyone else?

"Zentai is for the whole body and head" What's weird is that a catsuit with a built-in hood, wouldn't be considered zentai with the only difference being the material.

I wouldn't be opposed to add catsuit back as a tag in addition to bodysuit, but the problem is on e6 skinsuit/bodysuit/catsuit would all refer to the same thing. That's why I suggested just using the catsuit tag since it's the proper term for it.

To zentai: As far as I know in addition to the "covers the whole body and head" the appearance of it is meant to reference Power Ranger suits and this stuff. Maybe we should add that to the definition?

To catsuit: Yes, I agree the disambiguation is far fetched, but I already pointed out the problems with some *_suit tags like rubber_suit and goo_suit over in the latex BUR.
For those, who are not in on this subject the short version: rubber_suit while supposed to refer to one-piece garments that cover big areas of the wearer got used too often for situations when rubber_clothes were actually meant. Also, it lacks a proper definition despite being one of the most common rubber tags (even before the majority got aliased away). Thus, we agreed on making this tag a little bit more specific and alias it to latex_skinsuit.

goo_suit might sound like an attempt at tagging clothes out of liquid, but it's an extreme mess. A mix of encasement, latex_skin, latex_transformation and also just straight up latex_bodysuit (doesn't even always involve any liquid). I think the problem we encounter with clothing made out of goo is that as soon as they can be identified as clothing/fully formed some clothing they stop looking like goo. More like dripping latex. Also, thanks to the shine the goo carries, people are more likely to tag the formed clothing as latex, liquid_latex or both.

Lastly, I agree to catsuit being aliased to bodysuit. Sounds like the best idea so far.

Maybe. They do look different material wise though most suits like that on e6 are visibly shiny

Maybe latex_skinsuit should be latex_bodysuit instead?

I can't say much about goo since I'm don't have experience with goo content.