So I know dacad posts a lot of their art here themselves, and I know for a fact that they don't draw cub/young characters. And yet, on every post, I see a tag history of people INSISTING that the characters are young (when they only say that because the characters are short). This wouldn't be an issue for me if Dacad themself weren't also in the tag history removing these tags manually. So why the hell are people still adding these tags? Additionally, WHY do some of Dacad's posts have young tag locked???

here's one post for example
https://e621.net/post_versions?search%5Bpost_id%5D=4535271

dacad adds the post, tagging as they see fit, since, y'know, they're the fucking artist of the piece.

over the next tag edits, you see the young and various other related tags go back and forth between being added and removed, until one user re-adds the young tag, and then an admin locks the tag...? why? there's no reason given, they just lock it silently like they're hoping no one notices. I'm not throwing any accusations around but this makes it look like an admin forcing their preferences onto a post (NOT SAYING THEY ARE, BUT THIS MAKES IT LOOK LIKE THAT.)

see post version 4535271:9 of dacad removing the young tags:
"wtf do you mean young on young / young? rabbit dudes are small"

Tags are added based on what appears to be in the image. Not what anyone says is in the image. Even the artist themselves. Especially when it comes to contentious content like young, which in some countries is also illegal content and must be tagged.

definitelynotafurry4 said:
Tags are added based on what appears to be in the image. Not what anyone says is in the image. Even the artist themselves. Especially when it comes to contentious content like young, which in some countries is also illegal content and must be tagged.

well what I see are two characters that are short. what about them makes them seem young? there's no indictator anywhere. "Short" does not equal "young". Do you suppose all of Kuroodod's Oversexed Eeveelutions comic be tagged as young because Sam is short? I'm sure that would go over well.

piano0000000 said:
well what I see are two characters that are short. what about them makes them seem young? there's no indictator anywhere. "Short" does not equal "young". Do you suppose all of Kuroodod's Oversexed Eeveelutions comic be tagged as young because Sam is short? I'm sure that would go over well.

It isn't just height that determines that sort of thing, I imagine, but also other things about their appearance. It's about how young they look, not how old they are. A shortstack with giant T&A probably won't be tagged "young." A petite character that lacks either and on top of that is a lower evolutionary form of a pokemon that naturally looks less developed (eg, Riolu, Pikachu) has a much higher chance.

Unfortunately as with most tags, there isn't an objective measure one can use this sort of thing, especially for stuff like furry characters. And considering that cub, loli, young, etc sorts of tags all have legal implications in some countries on top of the fact that it's something some people REALLY don't want to see (even if it isn't cub in lore and only somewhat looks like cub), you can't really skimp on stuff like this either.

welcome to e621, you must be new here.

I'd advise not trying to get around the locked tags. That isn't going to go well for you.

piano0000000 said:
well what I see are two characters that are short. what about them makes them seem young? there's no indictator anywhere. "Short" does not equal "young". Do you suppose all of Kuroodod's Oversexed Eeveelutions comic be tagged as young because Sam is short? I'm sure that would go over well.

Indeed, short does not always equal young. We don't tag dwarfs as young because of their height, but because most of them look like adults (take this post for instance). The tag is one of those things where it's better to err on the side of caution and tag it than to undertag because of the "illegal in some areas" thing like the guy above you said.

narglfargl said:
It isn't just height that determines that sort of thing, I imagine, but also other things about their appearance. It's about how young they look, not how old they are. A shortstack with giant T&A probably won't be tagged "young." A petite character that lacks either and on top of that is a lower evolutionary form of a pokemon that naturally looks less developed (eg, Riolu, Pikachu) has a much higher chance.

Unfortunately as with most tags, there isn't an objective measure one can use this sort of thing, especially for stuff like furry characters. And considering that cub, loli, young, etc sorts of tags all have legal implications in some countries on top of the fact that it's something some people REALLY don't want to see (even if it isn't cub in lore and only somewhat looks like cub), you can't really skimp on stuff like this either.

I can see the logic in that. what I'm still worried about is how nonchalantly an admin locked the tag with no explanation given

piano0000000 said:
here's one post for example
https://e621.net/post_versions?search%5Bpost_id%5D=4535271

dacad adds the post, tagging as they see fit, since, y'know, they're the fucking artist of the piece.

Twys means that the general tags on the image should be tagged based on what is in the image, and what it looks like, rather than what the artist says it is. (The artist can use adult_(lore) to indicate the character is an adult.)

Ostensibly, this is so the blacklist and search can work properly.

piano0000000 said:
I can see the logic in that. what I'm still worried about is how nonchalantly an admin locked the tag with no explanation given

That's just down to the fact that this happens aaaaaaall the time around here, I bet. Just adding the "young" tag to rectify it without locking it will probably often result in a tagging war, at times with the artist who made the piece, out of a desire to not be anywhere near cub/young/etc. I've also seen several times where giving the (frankly reasonable) explanation doesn't help anything either, and even just causes a giant argument.

People get extremely touchy about tags not matching character lore in spite of how often or how well the TWYS principle is explained. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if mods just gave up on trying to explain it in many cases.

piano0000000 said:
I can see the logic in that. what I'm still worried about is how nonchalantly an admin locked the tag with no explanation given

Do you expect it to be announced to the world in the comments of the post, or similar? That's just inviting drama for any tag lock, regardless of how controversial it is
Nothing is said because there is nothing to explain, the tag is applied as per Tag What You See

piano0000000 said:
So I know dacad posts a lot of their art here themselves, and I know for a fact that they don't draw cub/young characters.

This is what the adult_(lore) tag is for. Please add it to posts containing young-looking characters that Dacad confirms are meant to be adults.

piano0000000 said:
dacad adds the post, tagging as they see fit, since, y'know, they're the fucking artist of the piece.

You don't get to tag based on your preference. You tag based on what is required by the site standards (i.e., TWYS).
That is why anybody is allowed to edit the post's tags, to make them "accurate" to what the viewers see and can blacklist.

piano0000000 said:
I can see the logic in that. what I'm still worried about is how nonchalantly an admin locked the tag with no explanation given

You can see in topic #37528 when the artist asked the same question.

Normally, tags are clear-cut and do not get contested between taggers. In this case, however, young is a very contestable tag that is often part of a tag war (i.e., back-and-forth adding and removing).
The thing with that tag in particular is that everybody has their own perception of it, which is why an admin needs to step in when no consensus could be reached.
They will have the final say in things and lock tags when appropriate. If you have a problem with it, you can report the post and say that you disagree with the ruling. Then, another admin may check the tags again to see if the ruling is valid.

TheGreatWolfgang raises a good argument. Regardless of reasoning or opinion, that's how it's done on this site.
Not much point in fighting the tags. Especially if it comes down to something as subjective as "well does this look like a cub/loli/whatever?"
Open a ticket if a tag proves contentious.
If you disagree with what admins tag or how it's typically done on e621, there's nothing you can do unless you're dacad anyways.

thegreatwolfgang said:

The thing with that tag in particular is that everybody has their own perception of it, which is why an admin needs to step in when no consensus could be reached.
They will have the final say in things and lock tags when appropriate. If you have a problem with it, you can report the post and say that you disagree with the ruling. Then, another admin may check the tags again to see if the ruling is valid.

i'm curious, has anyone ever contested an admin on a lock, and WON?

benjiboyo said:
i'm curious, has anyone ever contested an admin on a lock, and WON?

generally not on decisions like this. usually locks only get changed if something was locked in the wrong direction by accident or something like that.

there are a few cases, within the last half year there've been two cases of posts having their gender decisions reversed, post #1906365 and post #2703144

benjiboyo said:
i'm curious, has anyone ever contested an admin on a lock, and WON?

sipothac said:
generally not on decisions like this. usually locks only get changed if something was locked in the wrong direction by accident or something like that.

I recall this post where an admin locked the lynel tag off. NMNY reversed the decision and locked it on a year later after someone contested it via ticket and made their case on how you can tell it's a lynel.

sipothac said:
post #1906365

damn, i'd like to know the story on this post