The bulk update request #7683 is active.

Reason: ...From this thread, as advised by Strikerman: topic #29959

As the OP of that thread is now inactive and the BURs are full of duplicate implications and minor issues. Here's part 1. Still relatively straightforward copyright to owner implications, but some notes:

• Bioware doesn't actually own Baldur's Gate - it's a series it developed most of the games for, but as of currently another studio has the license.
• Bioware was acquired by EA in 2007. Origin Systems in 1992. (Edit: IDK how I missed that Bioware already implies EA)
• Command and Conquer doesn't need to be split into two subseries, I think just Red Alert alone works, since you could do command_and_conquer -red_alert_(series). There's also Generals which has its own unrelated plot but I'm not sure we have any posts about it.
• I can't find any reason to keep those individual Battlefield and Syndicate games separate.

I am not including character/species/etc. implications at the moment, as the ones Fluffball included originally were arbitrary and usually not all the relevant tags that needed implied. They'd be better handled separately.

EDIT: The bulk update request #7683 (forum #401791) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7684 is active.

create implication bioshock (347) -> 2k_games (865)
create implication borderlands (328) -> 2k_games (865)
create implication evolve_(copyright) (195) -> 2k_games (865)
create implication space_invaders (57) -> taito (291)
create implication arkanoid (4) -> taito (291)
create implication taito (291) -> square_enix (21393)
create implication thief_(series) (15) -> square_enix (21393)
create implication just_cause (3) -> avalanche_studios (3)
create implication legacy_of_kain (39) -> crystal_dynamics (150)
create implication bahamut_lagoon (1) -> square_enix (21393)
create implication drakengard (56) -> square_enix (21393)
create implication octopath_traveler (19) -> square_enix (21393)
create implication radiata_stories (1) -> square_enix (21393)
create implication valkyrie_profile (6) -> square_enix (21393)
create implication tonic_trouble (2) -> ubisoft (2047)
create implication legends_of_runeterra (69) -> league_of_legends (27891)
create implication teamfight_tactics (44) -> league_of_legends (27891)

Reason:

• Bioshock, Borderlands, Evolve, etc have been developed by a couple different companies but are exclusively published by 2K so I think it's safe to assume they own the IPs. OP wanted to change evolve_(copyright) to evolve_(game) but I don't think it's necessary.
• Taito is owned by Square Enix.
• I completely disagree with the original BUR's decision to split out the EU branch of Square Enix... Completely unnecessary...
• Square Enix doesn't own Nier Automata, PlatinumGames does, so it's left out. As for Nier... I don't know what's the deal with it.
• Original BUR implied TFT directly to Riot, no idea why, it's a spinoff of LOL...

EDIT: The bulk update request #7684 (forum #401792) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7686 is active.

Reason: This one's relatively straightforward, TBH.

• Excluded Alone in the Dark because it was sold to THQ Nordic.
• Mattel made the Intellivision, along with its games. Pretty straightforward.
• Implications for populated games from the Action 52 collection.

EDIT: The bulk update request #7686 (forum #401795) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7687 is active.

create implication high_seas_havoc (5) -> data_east (21)
create implication burgertime (1) -> data_east (21)
create implication karnov (1) -> data_east (21)
create implication magical_drop (5) -> data_east (21)
create implication mutant_fighter (8) -> data_east (21)
create implication gunforce_ii (1) -> irem (5)
create implication kid_niki (1) -> irem (5)
create implication kung-fu_master (1) -> irem (5)
create alias kung_fu_master (1) -> kung-fu_master (1)
create implication r-type (2) -> irem (5)
create implication galaxy_fight (62) -> sunsoft (99)
create alias galaxy_fight:_universal_warriors (1) -> galaxy_fight (62)
create implication waku_waku_7 (24) -> sunsoft (99)
create implication aero_the_acro-bat_(series) (26) -> acclaim (47)
create implication zero_the_kamikaze_squirrel (2) -> acclaim (47)
create implication vexx (18) -> vexx_(game) (18)
create implication vexx_(game) (18) -> acclaim (47)

Reason: Original version of this BUR wanted to imply Aero and Zero to Sunsoft, but they were last owned by the now-defunct Acclaim. Other than that mostly straightforward.

This covers up to forum #314447, I'll continue this a bit later.

EDIT: The bulk update request #7687 (forum #401801) has been approved by @Cinder.

nimphia said:
I am not including character/species/etc. implicstions at the moment, as the ones Fluffball included originally were arbitrary and usually not all the relevant tags that needed implied. They'd be better handled separately.

I'm fine with that, all the random decisions from Fluffball made it really difficult to sift through the BURS (let alone have a proper discussion about them at the time).

The bulk update request #7683 (forum #401791) has been approved by @Cinder.

I've started reviewing these, and I don't know if I really agree with how these are structured.
Developers deserve more credit for the games they made than publishers do.

For example, it's not EA who made Titanfall, it's Respawn Entertainment.
Dead Space was made by Visceral Games, Legacy of Cain – by Crystal Dynamics, Just Cause – by Avalanche Studios.

cinder said:
I've started reviewing these, and I don't know if I really agree with how these are structured.
Developers deserve more credit for the games they made than publishers do.

For example, it's not EA who made Titanfall, it's Respawn Entertainment.
Dead Space was made by Visceral Games, Legacy of Cain – by Crystal Dynamics, Just Cause – by Avalanche Studios.

I can rework them, I don't mind. The structure is from the original thread :P Just give me a bit to wake up

The bulk update request #7719 is active.

remove implication dead_space (180) -> electronic_arts (10329)
create implication dead_space (180) -> visceral_games (180)
create implication visceral_games (180) -> electronic_arts (10329)
remove implication titanfall (173) -> electronic_arts (10329)
create implication titanfall (173) -> respawn_entertainment (402)
create implication respawn_entertainment (402) -> electronic_arts (10329)
remove implication apex_legends (234) -> electronic_arts (10329)
create implication apex_legends (234) -> respawn_entertainment (402)
remove implication dungeon_keeper (6) -> electronic_arts (10329)
create implication dungeon_keeper (6) -> bullfrog_productions (8)
create implication bullfrog_productions (8) -> electronic_arts (10329)
remove implication syndicate_(series) (4) -> origin_systems (8)
create implication syndicate_(series) (4) -> bullfrog_productions (8)

Reason: This should work to fix the first BUR, luckily for us all these developers are subsidiaries of EA so the EA implication isn't incorrect to the point of needing a tag nuke.

Also I can't tell if the original BUR made the Syndicate mistake or if it was my error. Either way it was a Bullfrog IP, not Origin Systems. Easy fix though since there's not many images.

I edited the second BUR as well and I believe the last two should be fine.

I'm just gonna leave Tomb Raider out since it seems like it was acquired by another company and changes hands a lot.

EDIT: The bulk update request #7719 (forum #402050) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7719 (forum #402050) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7720 is active.

create implication star_wars_jedi:_fallen_order (13) -> respawn_entertainment (402)

Reason: Filling in a missing implication

EDIT: The bulk update request #7720 (forum #402053) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7684 (forum #401792) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7686 (forum #401795) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7687 (forum #401801) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7720 (forum #402053) has been approved by @Cinder.

nimphia said: ...

Thank you so much for your work.

I'm pretty sure the reason why the previous thread was left unapproved is because of how much of a mess the whole thing was.
I really appreciate you trying to salvage something of use from it.

The bulk update request #7721 is active.

Reason: This was originally in another thread but fittingly it was in the thread so here, I'll just copy it here.

Bethesda, Tango, Arkane and id are all subsidiaries of Microsoft.

• I'm skipping Wolfenstein since it's been developed by so many companies.
• Originally Brink was implied to Bethesda, but that's just the publisher. It was created by Splash Damage, a subsidiary of Tencent. I'm going to deal with Tencent after this BUR because they also own Riot Games and... A lot of other things.
• Infinity Blade and Shadow Complex were developed by Epic subsidiary Chair Entertainment.

EDIT: The bulk update request #7721 (forum #402060) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7722 is active.

create implication riot_games (27944) -> tencent (29625)
create implication funcom (2) -> tencent (29625)
create implication dreamfall (1) -> funcom (2)
create implication age_of_conan (1) -> funcom (2)
create implication digital_extremes (1661) -> tencent (29625)
create implication dark_sector (1) -> digital_extremes (1661)
create implication warframe (1660) -> digital_extremes (1661)
create implication splash_damage (1) -> tencent (29625)
create implication brink_(game) (1) -> splash_damage (1)
create implication sumo_digital (5) -> tencent (29625)
create implication snake_pass (5) -> sumo_digital (5)
create implication key_(company) (17) -> tencent (29625)
create implication kanon_(visual_novel) (6) -> key_(company) (17)
create implication clannad (6) -> key_(company) (17)
create alias little_busters (1) -> little_busters! (4)
create implication little_busters! (4) -> key_(company) (17)

Reason: Quickly detouring to deal with Tencent, which owns Riot Games, Splash Damage, Sumo Digital, Digital Extremes, Funcom and Key.

Extremely straightforward since there's no having to deal with Fluffball's disorganized BUR for this one... It only came up because they originally wanted to imply Brink to Bethesda.

EDIT: The bulk update request #7722 (forum #402061) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7723 is active.

Reason: Capcom. See forum #314448.

• I am not touching Xeno series. I also don't know why Fluffball included it in this BUR originally. It's not even related to Capcom.
• I don't see any reason to keep the Power Stone series separate.
• Viewtiful Joe, Okami and God Hand were developed by subsidiary studio Clover Studio.

EDIT: The bulk update request #7723 (forum #402064) has been approved by @Cinder.

nimphia said:
The bulk update request #7721 is active.

create implication bethesda_softworks (17797) -> microsoft (33082)
create alias bethesda (4) -> bethesda_softworks (17797)
create implication starfield_(game) (17) -> bethesda_softworks (17797)
create implication tango_gameworks (558) -> microsoft (33082)
create implication hi-fi_rush (528) -> tango_gameworks (558)
remove implication the_evil_within (30) -> bethesda_softworks (17797)
create implication the_evil_within (30) -> tango_gameworks (558)
create implication arkane_studios (49) -> microsoft (33082)
create implication arx_fatalis (1) -> arkane_studios (49)
remove implication dishonored (25) -> bethesda_softworks (17797)
create implication dishonored (25) -> arkane_studios (49)
create implication prey_(game) (17) -> arkane_studios (49)
create implication deathloop (6) -> arkane_studios (49)
create implication id_software (2009) -> microsoft (33082)
create implication commander_keen (15) -> id_software (2009)
create implication quake (113) -> id_software (2009)
create implication age_of_empires (9) -> xbox_game_studios (12713)
create implication rocket_league (47) -> epic_games (10238)
create implication infinity_blade (6) -> chair_entertainment (8)
create implication shadow_complex (2) -> chair_entertainment (8)
create implication chair_entertainment (8) -> epic_games (10238)

Reason: This was originally in another thread but fittingly it was in the thread so here, I'll just copy it here.

Bethesda, Tango, Arkane and id are all subsidiaries of Microsoft.

• I'm skipping Wolfenstein since it's been developed by so many companies.
• Originally Brink was implied to Bethesda, but that's just the publisher. It was created by Splash Damage, a subsidiary of Tencent. I'm going to deal with Tencent after this BUR because they also own Riot Games and... A lot of other things.
• Infinity Blade and Shadow Complex were developed by Epic subsidiary Chair Entertainment.

Rocket League is being developed by Psyonix, who in turn are owned by Epic.
I dunno if that's worth tagging, since that's their only game.

Rest looks good.

The bulk update request #7721 (forum #402060) has been approved by @Cinder.

The bulk update request #7722 (forum #402061) has been approved by @Cinder.

cinder said:
Rocket League is being developed by Psyonix, who in turn are owned by Epic.
I dunno if that's worth tagging, since that's their only game.

Rest looks good.

I'd say it's not necessary, but not a bad idea either in case they do develop more games in the future. But since the BUR's already gone through, I'll leave it be for now.

The bulk update request #7723 (forum #402064) has been approved by @Cinder.

nimphia said:
I'd say it's not necessary, but not a bad idea either in case they do develop more games in the future. But since the BUR's already gone through, I'll leave it be for now.

Yep. I'm not a huge fan of "future proofing" implications like that.
Same with creating implications that would affect zero posts. Seems pointless to me.

When / if the situation changes, the implication structure can be adjusted.

nimphia said:
create implication prey_(game) (17) -> arkane_studios (48)

There are two games named Prey, one made in 2006 by Human Head Studios (under contract from 3D Realms, published by 2K), and the other made in 2017 by Arkane for Microsoft.

nimphia said:
create implication quake (113) -> id_software (2004)

The Quake series is not developed exclusively by id Software. Quake 4 was developed by Raven Software. And there was a Quake 1 remaster released recently made by Nightdive Studios, with new maps made by MachineGames (maybe? info on that is spotty). Microsoft owns the IP, not id.

I don't really like this Game -> Developer -> Publisher/Owner chain going on here, as it has the potential to make a mess of IP ownership recognition. Especially as studios get bought or sold, games and series can change developers, and IP ownership isn't clear cut. Sometimes a developer retains the IP, sometimes the publisher gets them. Sometimes the publisher wholly owns the developer, sometimes not. This set of BURs even had to undo the baldur's_gate implication to bioware/electronic_arts because of the issue that implications like these are creating.

nimphia said:
create alias bethesda (4) -> bethesda_softworks (17557)
create implication starfield_(game) (17) -> bethesda_softworks (17557)

This is a whole separate can of worms. All other games here were implicated to a developer, but Bethesda Softworks is a publisher, not a developer. The developer is Bethesda Game Studios.

watsit said:
There are two games named Prey, one made in 2006 by Human Head Studios (under contract from 3D Realms, published by 2K), and the other made in 2017 by Arkane for Microsoft.

It seems like they're from the same series, and Bethesda owns the IP, so removing the Arkane implication should be fine?

The Quake series is not developed exclusively by id Software. Quake 4 was developed by Raven Software. And there was a Quake 1 remaster released recently made by Nightdive Studios, with new maps made by MachineGames (maybe? info on that is spotty). Microsoft owns the IP, not id.

I don't really like this Game -> Developer -> Publisher/Owner chain going on here, as it has the potential to make a mess of IP ownership recognition. Especially as studios get bought or sold, games and series can change developers, and IP ownership isn't clear cut. Sometimes a developer retains the IP, sometimes the publisher gets them. Sometimes the publisher wholly owns the developer, sometimes not. This set of BURs even had to undo the baldur's_gate implication to bioware/electronic_arts because of the issue that implications like these are creating.

The Baldur's Gate implication was an issue because it was just wrong, which had been brought up before and yet it got past anyways for some reason.

I don't really have a response to your other concern, though, I'd like to hear other people's, especially staff's, thoughts on it.

I have been trying to make sure not to imply games to publishers who don't appear to own the IP, or developers to publishers/owners they're not a subsidiary of, but obviously some mistakes happen, no one's perfect. ^^;

This is a whole separate can of worms. All other games here were implicated to a developer, but Bethesda Softworks is a publisher, not a developer. The developer is Bethesda Game Studios.

This part feels like semantics to me, honestly... I used Bethesda Softworks because that's what the tag already was. Bethesda Softworks also was the name of the development studio for 15 years, until it decided to break it off into a smaller subsidiary.

I'm not opposed to reversing bethesda -> bethesda_softworks, though.

nimphia said:
It seems like they're from the same series, and Bethesda owns the IP, so removing the Arkane implication should be fine?

They're not from the same series. There was going to be a Prey 2 (following the 2006 game), but that got silently scrapped after nothing really came together for it. Arkane was working on their game independently, and Bethesda Softworks went "hey, we have access to the Prey name, use that for your game", so they did. They have nothing to do with each other besides that. It might be better to make two different tags for them (even if they have been retconned to somehow be related in lore, the two games are so different that separate tags would be justified).

nimphia said:
I don't really have a response to your other concern, though, I'd like to hear other people's, especially staff's, thoughts on it.

Another thing to consider is when a developer makes a game through a publisher that retains the IP to that game, then that developer gets bought out by a different company. For example, Donkey Kong Country 1, 2, and 3, being developed by Rareware for Nintendo who owns the IPs. Rare later being bought by Microsoft. Having Donkey Kong Country 1, 2, and 3 imply Rare for being the developer, and having Rare imply Microsoft for now owning the company, would cause the Nintendo-owned DKC 1/2/3 games to be tagged Microsoft, who had nothing to do with them.

Though that particular case has added twists. While Nintendo owns Donkey Kong Country, certain things that Rare created for it (such as king_k._rool) did stay under Rare's ownership, so technically Microsoft owns specific parts like that. But not the games or series as a whole.

nimphia said:
This part feels like semantics to me, honestly... I used Bethesda Softworks because that's what the tag already was. Bethesda Softworks also was the name of the development studio for 15 years, until it decided to break it off into a smaller subsidiary.

At this point, I think the bethesda_softworks tag should be retired, any implications to them for publishing/ownership purposes (Prey 2017, Rage) should be moved to microsoft. Then bethesda_game_studios be unaliased from bethesda_softworks and the appropriate game-specific TES, Fallout, and Starfield tags can implicate bethesda_game_studios as needed (not TESO, and I assume there's different tags for the pre-Bethesda Fallout games that should stay where they are). bethesda_softworks can then be aliased to microsoft, since they don't really do anything worthy of a tag anymore, IMO. Microsoft owns the IPs, BGS develops some of the games. Bethesda Softworks is just a publishing arm of Microsoft who doesn't own anything themselves and isn't involved in creating anything.

watsit said:
They're not from the same series. There was going to be a Prey 2 (following the 2006 game), but that got silently scrapped after nothing really came together for it. Arkane was working on their game independently, and Bethesda Softworks went "hey, we have access to the Prey name, use that for your game", so they did. They have nothing to do with each other besides that. It might be better to make two different tags for them (even if they have been retconned to somehow be related in lore, the two games are so different that separate tags would be justified).

Gotcha, based on that I would agree with separating them, then. Do we have posts for both right now? I'm not familiar with the source, so I can't tell. Maybe prey_(2006) and prey_(2017) could work.

Another thing to consider is when a developer makes a game through a publisher that retains the IP to that game, then that developer gets bought out by a different company. For example, Donkey Kong Country 1, 2, and 3, being developed by Rareware for Nintendo who owns the IPs. Rare later being bought by Microsoft. Having Donkey Kong Country 1, 2, and 3 imply Rare for being the developer, and having Rare imply Microsoft for now owning the company, would cause the Nintendo-owned DKC 1/2/3 games to be tagged Microsoft, who had nothing to do with them.

Though that particular case has added twists. While Nintendo owns Donkey Kong Country, certain things that Rare created for it (such as king_k._rool) did stay under Rare's ownership, so technically Microsoft owns specific parts like that. But not the games or series as a whole.

This stuff is so confusing, man. Maybe this is why I gravitate towards indie games. (Mostly joking, but what a mess, lol.)

At this point, I think the bethesda_softworks tag should be retired, any implications to them for publishing/ownership purposes (Prey 2017, Rage) should be moved to microsoft. Then bethesda_game_studios be unaliased from bethesda_softworks and the appropriate game-specific TES, Fallout, and Starfield tags can implicate bethesda_game_studios as needed (not TESO, and I assume there's different tags for the pre-Bethesda Fallout games that should stay where they are). bethesda_softworks can then be aliased to microsoft, since they don't really do anything worthy of a tag anymore, IMO. Microsoft owns the IPs, BGS develops some of the games. Bethesda Softworks is just a publishing arm of Microsoft who doesn't own anything themselves and isn't involved in creating anything.

Honestly, this sounds good to me, I can't think of any issues with this proposal.

nimphia said:
Gotcha, based on that I would agree with separating them, then. Do we have posts for both right now? I'm not familiar with the source, so I can't tell. Maybe prey_(2006) and prey_(2017) could work.

Sounds reasonable. As it is, there seems to only be one post for the 2006 game, post #130622 includes Tommy from the 2006 game. Which I'm honestly a bit surprised about. The 2006 game included plenty of alien creatures, alien environments, and a notable amount of Native American animal imagery, which better fits the site focus. At least compared to the 2017 game which was just humans in a high-tech space colony setting with generic shapeshifting blobs. Maybe the 2006 game was just too early relative to e6's creation and growth, that any interest there could be with the 2006 game was over by the time e6 started becoming popular while the 2017 game was released during its growth.

nimphia said:
This stuff is so confusing, man. Maybe this is why I gravitate towards indie games. (Mostly joking, but what a mess, lol.)

Yeah. I remember there being discussions about removing the developer tags and not worry about tagging them at all, and just stick with IP ownership tags to avoid dealing with messes like that.

The bulk update request #7756 is pending approval.

remove implication prey_(game) (17) -> arkane_studios (49)
remove implication quake (113) -> id_software (2009)
remove alias bethesda (4) -> bethesda_softworks (17797)
remove alias bethesda_game_studios (0) -> bethesda_softworks (17797)
remove implication bethesda_softworks (17797) -> microsoft (33082)
remove implication the_elder_scrolls (11345) -> bethesda_softworks (17797)
remove implication fallout (6165) -> bethesda_softworks (17797)
remove implication prey_(game) (17) -> bethesda_softworks (17797)
remove implication rage_(game) (0) -> bethesda_softworks (17797)
remove implication starfield_(game) (17) -> bethesda_softworks (17797)

Reason: Based on what Watsit said above. Reminds me of another issue with the original thread: a ton of BURs were made all at once, which makes picking out mistakes a lot more difficult. That's why I'm trying to keep this thread to just a couple at a time (and seriously, Watsit, I majorly appreciate you pointing out issues with BURs whenever you notice them, it's super helpful)

If there's any mistakes to be corrected, please point them out.

Bump, I'd appreciate if someone would take a look at the above BUR