The bulk update request #7982 is pending approval.

change category holidays (71217) -> copyright

Reason: All the tags that imply this (christmas, halloween, etc.) are copyright tags, so why isn't this one?

Also see topic #37173

snpthecat said:
Also see topic #37173

I think copyright is the more logical category for this to go in since we tend to add "brands" into that category. while "holidays" itself is a bit vague, the traditions, imagery, etc. of individual holidays are what can loosely be described as branding.

although we did place meme in the meta category when most of its constituent tags are copytags...

Personally, I think holidays is better off in the Meta category, in parallel with meme.

clawstripe said:
Personally, I think holidays is better off in the Meta category, in parallel with meme.

wouldn't it make more sense to have it match mythology instead?

meme is weird.

Meta tags are for describing meta information about the post rather than the actual contents within the post. The aspect ratio, the artistic medium, etc. If a post itself is a meme, that definitely falls within that category. Meme formats like image macro (also meta) describe meta information (the format of the post) rather than the content of the post. This is not the case with holidays and mythology, which say nothing about the format of the post, and only describe its contents. I do not believe that either of these belong in the meta category.

However, and here's where the weirdness of meme comes in - this isn't always the case with memes either. With a lot of meme posts, maybe most of them, the post itself is a meme, so the meta tag makes sense. However, it is also very common for regular, non-meme posts to contain memes within them - for example, surprised pikachu on a poster in the background.

Arguably, we could consider splitting meme into meme_format in the meta category and meme_reference in, perhaps, the general category? Then have them both imply meme in the copyright category? I'm not really sure, but that sounds like a lot of work and a mess to keep straight regardless. I'm fine with just leaving meme as it is, all things considered.

That said, I think copyright is the best target for holidays, as it describes the source of the contents of the post (which is basically the broadest definition of that category that I can think of), but I'm not going to do anything yet without more consensus.

clawstripe said:
Personally, I think holidays is better off in the Meta category, in parallel with meme.

Holidays can be tagged by twys, so I don't think Meta fits well.

Someone did point out recently that having too much non-copyright things under Copyright makes it harder to filter images that have franchise characters.
I can't remember why all the holiday tags were made Copyright-category in the first place. There's no real benefit as far as searchability goes for having them in there...? (Unlike other exceptions like having sound warning in artist for visibility.) General might've been the better fit all along.

scaliespe said:
meme is weird.

Meta tags are for describing meta information about the post rather than the actual contents within the post. The aspect ratio, the artistic medium, etc. If a post itself is a meme, that definitely falls within that category. Meme formats like image macro (also meta) describe meta information (the format of the post) rather than the content of the post. This is not the case with holidays and mythology, which say nothing about the format of the post, and only describe its contents. I do not believe that either of these belong in the meta category.

However, and here's where the weirdness of meme comes in - this isn't always the case with memes either. With a lot of meme posts, maybe most of them, the post itself is a meme, so the meta tag makes sense. However, it is also very common for regular, non-meme posts to contain memes within them - for example, surprised pikachu on a poster in the background.

Arguably, we could consider splitting meme into meme_format in the meta category and meme_reference in, perhaps, the general category? Then have them both imply meme in the copyright category? I'm not really sure, but that sounds like a lot of work and a mess to keep straight regardless. I'm fine with just leaving meme as it is, all things considered.

That said, I think copyright is the best target for holidays, as it describes the source of the contents of the post (which is basically the broadest definition of that category that I can think of), but I'm not going to do anything yet without more consensus.

We were talking in the meme cleanup thread about maybe making meme more manageable by splitting it up into chunks - meme_clothing, meme_iconography, meme_template, meme_phrasology, etc.

But the issue is that memes don't always fall into one camp - born_to_die_(meme) is both phrasology and also meme clothing, for example. So we end up with like, meme encompasses way too much and has a hot mess of implications (though my BUR axed a ton of the questionable ones) but also it can't easily be split up.

I still hope for a day when e621 gets Danbooru's auto-tag feature so we can just have meme tags end with *_(meme) and not bother worrying about manual implications, though.

Anyways, on-topic, I don't really have an opinion on where holidays should go. It feels weird in all of the suggested categories.

genjar said:
I can't remember why all the holiday tags were made Copyright-category in the first place. There's no real benefit as far as searchability goes for having them in there...? (Unlike other exceptions like having sound warning in artist for visibility.) General might've been the better fit all along.

As I see it, holidays are akin to public "franchises" whereas actual copyrights are private franchises. Essentially the same thing except a corporation or franchise doesn't own the former.