Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions
The tag alias #71386 gold_scales -> yellow_scales is pending approval.
Reason: tagged submissions under ether do not meaningfully vary. gold for all intents and purposes is just a combination of yellow hue and metallic property. some variants irl do tend towards being what we regard as tan on e621 but the greater majority of the gold tags here appear to be yellow however.
We could put truly metallic looking scales under metallic_scales perhaps. (Many images under gold_scales are not even metallic though)
I don't know if someone went through them all, but currently, most of the images tagged as gold scales actually have gold scales, not yellow scales.
kyiiel said:
I don't know if someone went through them all, but currently, most of the images tagged as gold scales actually have gold scales, not yellow scales.
how might these differentiate significantly if at all? these are a equal amount of samples taken from both the yellow scales and gold scales from some of the most recent submissions to the oldest that still exist on the site.
post #545344 post #4203433 post #1697131
post #1989574 post #4772667 post #3246226
post #3917521 post #4199068 post #3306567
post #108119
i checked through the gold tag and yeah, the vast majority of the posts are just generic yellow body and markings. i don't think shiny yellow scales really constitute them as gold either.
if you alias gold hair, eyes, fur, etc, to yellow/blonde respectively, even if you argue those are made of gold in the context, then gold scales should be also the one as well
snake-girl said:
i checked through the gold tag and yeah, the vast majority of the posts are just generic yellow body and markings. i don't think shiny yellow scales really constitute them as gold either.
if you alias gold hair, eyes, fur, etc, to yellow/blonde respectively, even if you argue those are made of gold in the context, then gold scales should be also the one as well
As far as I know, nobody made such an argument for hair. AFAIK there aren't very many instances of literal metallic hair.
I only looked at the first three pages before. I agree most of the early pages consist of yellow scales, not gold scales.
But aliasing gold scales away would make it very difficult to find literal gold scales, such as these:
post #4768212 post #4738585 post #4569253 post #4237987 post #3802117 post #3795122 post #3781280 post #3772532 post #3733626 post #3143477 post #2971850
I have an idea for a BUR that could resolve this issue, I'll create it when I get a chance.
kyiiel said:
As far as I know, nobody made such an argument for hair. AFAIK there aren't very many instances of literal metallic hair.I only looked at the first three pages before. I agree most of the early pages consist of yellow scales, not gold scales.
But aliasing gold scales away would make it very difficult to find literal gold scales, such as these:
post #4768212 post #4738585 post #4569253 post #4237987 post #3802117 post #3795122 post #3781280 post #3772532 post #3733626 post #3143477 post #2971850
I have an idea for a BUR that could resolve this issue, I'll create it when I get a chance.
Yellow_scales metallic_scales (metallic_scales doesn't exist yet, but if it's created)
The bulk update request #8672 is pending approval.
change category gold_scales (675) -> invalid
create implication goldtone_scales (0) -> metallic_scales (0)
Reason: There has been a need to disambiguate between 'Color Gold' (ex: matte yellow) and actual metallic gold when tagging certain substances for many years on this site. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_(color)) for definitions of (color gold and metallic gold)
Here is an example of the issue:
Metallic Gold Scales: post #4768212 Gold Color Scales post #3845271
The painting industry has also ran into this problem. We can borrow the lingo from the painting industry to help with this disambiguation. When referring to a metallic paint, they use the terms 'goldtone', 'silvertone', etc. (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/goldtone)
I propose a small scale experiment to see if these terms are useful here. pun intended lol
Due to yellow_scales frequently being being as mistagged as gold_scales, gold_scales would be moved to the invalid category.
A new tag specifically for metallic gold scales would be created: goldtone_scales. The wiki for gold_scales would be updated to direct users on whether to use yellow_scales or goldtone_scales.
If this experiment goes well and helps prevent the mistagging, we can consider incorporating this new lingo to other bodyparts/objects and metals. (ex: silvertone_scales, goldtone_body, etc)
Updated
wandering_spaniel said:
Yellow_scales metallic_scales (metallic_scales doesn't exist yet, but if it's created)
There is metal_scales with 31 posts, btw.
kyiiel said:
The bulk update request #8672 is pending approval.change category gold_scales (675) -> invalid
create implication goldtone_scales (0) -> metallic_scales (0)Reason: There has been a need to disambiguate between 'Color Gold' (ex: matte yellow) and actual metallic gold when tagging certain substances for many years on this site. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_(color)) for definitions of (color gold and metallic gold)
Here is an example of the issue:
Metallic Gold Scales: post #4768212 Gold Color Scales post #3845271
The painting industry has also ran into this problem. We can borrow the lingo from the painting industry to help with this disambiguation. When referring to a metallic paint, they use the terms 'goldtone', 'silvertone', etc. (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/goldtone)
I propose a small scale experiment to see if these terms are useful here. pun intended lol
Due to yellow_scales frequently being being as mistagged as gold_scales, gold_scales would be moved to the invalid category.
A new tag specifically for metallic gold scales would be created: goldtone_scales. The wiki for gold_scales would be updated to direct users on whether to use yellow_scales or goldtone_scales.
If this experiment goes well and helps prevent the mistagging, we can consider incorporating this new lingo to other bodyparts/objects and metals. (ex: silvertone_scales, goldtone_body, etc)
mind you, no mention of gold in anyway should be made in the naming of any new color tag, otherwise the same tagging problems will just carry over onto the new tag returning to square one.
The focus when I made this alias was on scales, but this frankly should also extend to all other tags that refer to gold in the context of a color, they all should be invalidated or aliased to their yellow equivalents. I will add that we also have silver tags that have the same issue as gold used in the context of color. Interestingly copper is thankfully not still a thing through...
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in regard to the use of a metal_scales or metallic_scales tag, how exactly would that be distinguished from the existing glistening_scales??
The difference between metallic and glistening is that nobody knows what glistening is supposed to mean.
regsmutt said:
The difference between metallic and glistening is that nobody knows what glistening is supposed to mean.
I'd be in favor of undoing that alias. Glistening sounds like oiled or wet scales, not naturally shiny & metallic.
genjar said:
I'd be in favor of undoing that alias. Glistening sounds like oiled or wet scales, not naturally shiny & metallic.
That seems awfully lore/TWYT dependent if you ask me, there is nothing really visible to tell whether the reflective/shiny shading is temporary or permanent aspect of the character.
regsmutt said:
The difference between metallic and glistening is that nobody knows what glistening is supposed to mean.
nether does it seem with metallic, both are reflective or shiny and that is the only objective visible condition applied to both. Both in terms of the tag's wiki and most submissions on them both, so again how are they different?
darou said:
The tag alias #71386 gold_scales -> yellow_scales is pending approval.Reason: tagged submissions under ether do not meaningfully vary. gold for all intents and purposes is just a combination of yellow hue and metallic property. some variants irl do tend towards being what we regard as tan on e621 but the greater majority of the gold tags here appear to be yellow however.
Ugh, this was coming up when tagging golden dragons. Yeah, metallic_* and yellow_* are technically equivalent to golden_* when talking about scales or the like. I think I remember leaving it alone when it was clearly metallic in appearance. Same with bronze and copper and others.
wandering_spaniel said:
We could put truly metallic looking scales under metallic_scales perhaps. (Many images under gold_scales are not even metallic though)
Yeah, have to have a good reason to outright nuke it. Gold dragons as a species are a DND-specific thing, right?
