Topic: Request of Adjustment of the rule about sandbox games

Posted under General

I would like to request the rule about sandboxes to be adjusted.

This post will use the high quality animations I tried to upload as an example, and the arguments used by the Janitor Mairo, the Quotes from the artist talking to me on their discord server.

Current rules:

Screen captures: Screenshots from games, still images from movies, video snippets from YouTube, etc.

This includes all content created in sandboxes like Second Life, Minecraft, and similar.

I am not quite familiar with the game/software that the artist used, however In my opinion it should not matter what software is used, as long as the quality is good.

The artist used something called Charastudio which is apparently based on Koikatsu.
At first, I had a miscommunication where I wrote with the Janitor that it's made with Koikatsu, and he kept referring specifically to that.

Koikatsu is the game that is violating the rule about sandbox content. The artist uses a tool that is based on it. Here is the artist's and Mairo's explanation. Although personally, I lack the context to understand it.

Koikatsu and Charastudio definitions

Yes. Well technically Charastudio is more accurate. Koikatsu is the game Charastudio is based on, like how SFM is based off of Half Life 2

Mairo's words about Koikatsu:

Koikatsu is considered to be similar to Second life as that it is still sandbox game, where Source Filmmaker even though using Source engine, has proper tools to properly render the animation out.

The fact that they kept talking about Koikatsu is probably still an effect of my miscommunication.

Mairo then argued about rendering and screenshots.

Mairo's quotes

You can correct me if I'm completely wrong, but Koikatsu is still sandbox game, not animation software. Even animation exporting is done via plugins that essentially just screenshot the game rather than render the animation out.
People do put a lot of effort into VRChat and Second life animations as well and make them high quality, but it's still outside the scope of the website, this isn't social media, pornsite or naughtymachinima.

The sites guidelines. If you can properly render out the animation or poster, then it's acceptable, if not, then it's considered screencap.
That's why 3DS Flipnote is acceptable, but Swapnote is not

I would argue that the method of rending does not matter as long as the quality is good enough.
The current rules are, in my opinion, too restrictive to high quality animations that are made in a sandbox.

I think content from sandboxes should be allowed if:

  • no game or OS UI is present in the video.
  • there are custom characters, and not predefined ones from the game.
      • my reasoning: default characters might get used too much and fill up the site.
  • there are custom animations with no presets
      • animations done with presets are repetitive and not adapted for specific situations. Custom animations allow one to make specific and high quality videos.
  • no characters whose movement is determined by IRL people
      • reason: if people control characters with movement, like in VR-chat porn, then it's not an animation and out of scope of e621. Animations are also superior to IRL movement, when it comes to create art.
  • the shading and lighting should look alright
      • some sandboxes may have interesting shading and lighting, this may not be wanted.
  • the animation should have a good sense of timing,
      • example: having a one-minute animation of a 5-second-long loop is low quality.

I think if animations that follow those ideas of quality should be allowed.
Restricting animations merely by the means of how it was created sounds like a bad idea to me.

Here is an example of a good animation, it compiled me to make this post, since I belive that high quality work should be easily accessible and archivable.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O7O0Rg0s9rFf7ggIogk56hILwt-0l5ZD/view

The artist explaining how they made the work (images not included)

Most models are mine. The works made with my OCs- are my models and I also made boykisser myself. Other renders I made that includes pre-existing characters such as Pokemon, I've downloaded those models.
Animations are mine
Backgrounds are sometimes mine--either I build the backgrounds myself or I use maps/backgrounds made by the community Koikatsu community (whether if they are original maps or ported from something else)
and all lighting and shaders are done by me, these are some examples if they help
The images- The left character are the basic Koikatsu shader from the game itself. The right character is the shader I typically use for most renders, which this and most other shaders I have are made by other Charastudio artists. For most shaders; they allow the models, maps, or items to receive proper lighting and shadows, and just helps with making the textures looking a bit more detailed. I can make more textures for the models, use detailmasks, normalmaps (which is how the right model has skin pores) make certain parts glow like the Midna example, and the list goes on.
The first videos shows how light and shadows reacts on the right character's shader whereas the left default shader does nothing.
Second vid is a quick animation I just made to prove I make my own animations. Character waves and poses with the FK/IK nodes I made turned on, but just T-poses when they're turned off.

Thank you for reading.

Please tell me if I can improve my writing, I am not used to writing arguments on forums.

I somewhat disagree with your definition of animation, as motion capture is a widely accepted tool within animation, it just requires cleanup typically. A good mocap actor enhances art. I also don't think that animation cycles would need to be custom, as plenty of source filmmaker, and traditional animation software content on this website contain animation cycles that are incredibly repetitive, or repurposed.

Overall I disagree with this, I do not think VRChat, SecondLife, or other games belong in e6, as while they have the potential to be high quality, source filmmaker animations that are already on this site show the limitations of game-engine rendered content, and in my opinion we do not need more of it on this website.

Not all of it is, but generally, VRChat and other sandbox game content in particular is low effort, low quality, and not fit for e6. If a games content belongs on this website, the creator, developer, artist, what have you of that game should be the one to upload clips of it.

I somewhat disagree with your definition of animation, as motion capture is a widely accepted tool within animation, it just requires cleanup typically. A good mocap actor enhances art. I also don't think that animation cycles would need to be custom, as plenty of source filmmaker, and traditional animation software content on this website contain animation cycles that are incredibly repetitive, or repurposed.

Fair, this was my attempt to keep in the no VRchat rule. I am not an expert in the field, so admins would have to clean this all up.
And yeah, there may be some repetitive animations, and maybe they are fine.

Not all of it is, but generally, VRChat and other sandbox game content in particular is low effort, low quality, and not fit for e6. If a games content belongs on this website, the creator, developer, artist, what have you of that game should be the one to upload clips of it.

Sure, most of it is low quality and should not be here, but some programs can make high quality animations.
If the only reason a high quality animation is not allowed is by the means of its creation, and no other quality concerns, then I think that's not right.

I am sure that if the example animation was made in blender, and the result looked exactly as it does now, then there would be no issue to upload it.

  • 1