Please can we just add "not furry" to the Invalid reasons to flag an image for deletion in the official list?

I mean we have a not_furry tag and a human tag, yet I keep seeing images flagged for not_furry.

Could we perhaps add it onto the list of 'Invalid reasons to flag' when someone goes to flag an image?

It might stop all the odd flags and inform people without a mark on their account.

-----------------
Example
-----------------
Invalid reasons to flag an image for deletion:

- Image is 'crappy', 'disgusting', 'unpopular' or 'not furry'
- You're an artist or character owner and want the image deleted (please use the takedown form)

It still won't stop people from flagging it for being not furry.

It won't stop all people but it may stop some.

Patch said:
It still won't stop people from flagging it for being not furry.

It will stop some, because people might see and read it then not flag for that reason. Besides it would stop people from getting marks on there account for it if it was actually listed.

NotMeNotYouMobile said:
It won't stop all people but it may stop some.

Agreed, it should be added it would stop a lot of flags for that reason and people would know its not a valid flag reason.

*has flagged this forum topic*
not furry

Aurali said:
*has flagged this forum topic*
not furry

I'm flagging you for being not furry

Patch said:
I'm flagging you for being not furry

obb

I thought not furry already was on the list of things to not flag an image for, lumped in with other subjective reasons?

Rocket_Corgi said:
obb

I thought not furry already was on the list of things to not flag an image for, lumped in with other subjective reasons?

That's what I thought too, but I guess not

Rocket_Corgi said:
I thought not furry already was on the list of things to not flag an image for, lumped in with other subjective reasons?

"not furry" isn't a subjective tag.
There are post where you could argue if the creatures depicted are furry or not, but those aren't the ones that get flagged for being "not furry".

sad thing is... ive seen people FLAG things for the exact things your not supposed to use. such as. Disgusting, and unpopular. best part? the unpopular ones usually are only at -1 or -2...
bigger more clear rules dont stop stupid.

Esme_Belles said:

bigger more clear rules don't stop stupid.

Ignorance is treatable, and clearer rules can help. You're right about stupid, though. It's incurable, and often contagious.

Munzkelan said:
"not furry" isn't a subjective tag.
There are post where you could argue if the creatures depicted are furry or not, but those aren't the ones that get flagged for being "not furry".

Wasn't talking about the not_furry tag, was talking about the FFD reason.

From the FFD help page:

The deletion request reasons that are acceptable are:
- Duplicate of #postnumber
- Inferior (i.e. smaller, sketch, cropped, or resized) version of #postnumber
- Updated version has been posted (usually applies to a flash)
- Drawn by an artist or owned by a site on the DNP list
- Violates the site's posting rules

Do not flag images for deletion for subjective reasons! "Not furry," "bad art," and "irrelevant" are all subjective reasons!

Not saying that it's right, but that is how it's laid out in the rules.

Rocket_Corgi said:
I thought not furry already was on the list of things to not flag an image for, lumped in with other subjective reasons?

TheHuskyK9 said:
That's what I thought too, but I guess not

Well the problem is, The FFD help page is more updated then the flag page.

Look here for example: https://e621.net/post/flag/314214

Invalid reasons to flag an image for deletion:

- Image is 'crappy', 'disgusting', or 'unpopular'
- You're an artist or character owner and want the image deleted (please use the takedown form)

-------------------------

As you can see the flag page isnt updated for all the reasons you shouldnt flag for.

edidaf said:
Ignorance is treatable, and clearer rules can help.

I agree, I think if the other reasons where added to the flag window reasons then this could stop a lot of mis flags.

I mean if you are going to have admins put gray marks on people's accounts for flagging a image for "not furry" then at least UPDATE the flag page so it lists that as a reason, so people can see it when they are about to flag.

Conker said:

I mean if you are going to have admins put gray marks on people's accounts for flagging a image for "not furry" then at least UPDATE the flag page so it lists that as a reason, so people can see it when they are about to flag.

This, so much. If it is gonna be such a source of grey/reds, make it clearer

CamKitty said:
This, so much. If it is gonna be such a source of grey/reds, make it clearer

Agreed, hopefully they will update the flagging image page soon on this matter.

CamKitty said:
This, so much. If it is gonna be such a source of grey/reds, make it clearer

alternatively we can take it back to only priv users and higher, knowing those people have thoroughly read the rules.

Ignorance is never an excuse.

Aurali said:
alternatively we can take it back to only priv users and higher, knowing those people have thoroughly read the rules.

Ignorance is never an excuse.

I don't think it should be taken away from all members, it should however be possible to disable it for some people who like to misuse it.

Also, ignorance may not be an excuse but there is still a reason why stop signs are bright red and placed in highly visible areas, instead of being a tiny post it note on the ground somewhere nearby. It is more often better to give out necessary information in relevant places than to stash them away somewhere and make people search.

NotMeNotYou said:
Also, ignorance may not be an excuse but there is still a reason why stop signs are bright red and placed in highly visible areas, instead of being a tiny post it note on the ground somewhere nearby. It is more often better to give out necessary information in relevant places than to stash them away somewhere and make people search.

That analogy is extremely flawed. Did you know you have to park less then one foot from the curve? did you know that headlights must be with 2000K of being pure white? I'm sure all curves don't say "Park this close or else" and I'm sure the packaging of the light bulb doesn't say "Not street legal" in flashing bright letters..

And you'll still get a ticket for not knowing those rules. Regardless of them not being plastered every which way.

Aurali said:Did you know you have to park less then one foot from the curve? did you know that headlights must be with 2000K of being pure white? I'm sure all curves don't say "Park this close or else" and I'm sure the packaging of the light bulb doesn't say "Not street legal" in flashing bright letters..

Thast no excuse NOT to update the "dont flag" section of text when you go to flag something. Its outdated and should be updated. It would make it crystal clear its not allowed, and if anyone does it after that its their own fault, but if the page was updated then it would stop a lot of those invalid flags.

It should be updated, if you are going to have a sign that says "dont flag for these reasons" then at least keep that list updated or dont have that list of rules there at all, as its pointless if its outdated.

Currently in the Flag For Deletion Help page, the following is listed as acceptable reasons for flagging an image:

Acceptable Deletion Request Reasons

Note: Flagging a post for anything other than the following reasons may result in disciplinary action being taken against your account. Be wary. Don't be afraid to ask an Administrator if you are unsure.

The deletion request reasons that are acceptable are:
- Duplicate of #postnumber
- Inferior (i.e. smaller, sketch, cropped, or resized) version of #postnumber
- Updated version has been posted (usually applies to a flash)
- Drawn by an artist or owned by a site on the DNP list
- Violates the site's posting rules

The last one is, in my mind, where a lot of the confusion lies, because of you then go to the site's rules section and scroll down to the Posting section, you see the following:

(Posting)

*Avoid posting things covered by the avoid posting list.
*ASK the artist before you upload their art. Since there is no way to verify if this is actually allowed here or not, it saves us a lot of hassle. This is not a suggestion.
*When uploading an image, add at least four tags, try to include species and gender. This is a good list for figuring out what to tag.
*Make an effort to post quality, finished, non-repost images. Avoid crap-quality things like tiny images, grainy images, motivational poster memes, screenshots, image macros, images with absurdly huge and extremely annoying watermarks, etc. Off-topic images and any potential fallout from posting them are subject to the whims of the moderators. In other words, don't post non-furry art if you aren't okay with it being deleted.
*Only post the best quality, highest resolution version of an image available. If you find a better version of an existing post, for God's sake, upload it!
*Source your uploads.

The bolded part in particular makes it seem as though it's acceptable to flag images for being 'crappy' or 'low quality'. It's my opinion that, while having the rules laid out in a proper manner may not completely curb FFD abuse, having them laid out in a proper manner will help people better learn what they can and cannot flag an image for over time. Here's my idea of how that particular section of the rules should look like (complete with formatting):

--------

Acceptable Deletion Request Reasons

(Note: Flagging a post for anything other than the following reasons may result in disciplinary action being taken against your account. Be wary. Don't be afraid to ask an Administrator if you are unsure.)

Acceptable deletion reasons are:
*Duplicate of #postnumber
*Inferior (i.e. smaller, cropped, or resized) version of #postnumber
*Updated version has been posted (usually applies to a flash)
*Drawn by an artist or owned by a site on the DNP list

Do not flag images for deletion for subjective reasons! "Not furry," "bad art," and "irrelevant" are all subjective reasons!

If you consider the image in question to be sick, disgusting, perverse, "Just wrong" or anything similar, do not flag it for deletion. This is an invalid reason, and flagging a post with a similar sort of reason will result in disciplinary action. You have been warned.

--------

I'd say leave the 'violates site posting rules' bit out, because that really opens it up to be sort of nebulous.

Aurali said:
That analogy is extremely flawed. Did you know you have to park less then one foot from the curve? did you know that headlights must be with 2000K of being pure white? I'm sure all curves don't say "Park this close or else" and I'm sure the packaging of the light bulb doesn't say "Not street legal" in flashing bright letters..

And you'll still get a ticket for not knowing those rules. Regardless of them not being plastered every which way.

All analogies are flawed, but that isn't really the point, it would take only a small effort once to change that page and have a improvement, while buying and placing those signs would cost millions.

I'm all for kicking people in the nuts for not knowing things they should know, but why make it harder for them than it has to be?
Also, it is more satisfying to kick them harder the easier you make it for them to know things.

NotMeNotYou said:
All analogies are flawed, but that isn't really the point, it would take only a small effort once to change that page and have a improvement, while buying and placing those signs would cost millions.

I'm all for kicking people in the nuts for not knowing things they should know, but why make it harder for them than it has to be?
Also, it is more satisfying to kick them harder the easier you make it for them to know things.

this

Should add for the unacceptable side

• because someone claiming to be the artist said for it to be deleted in comments, they must use the take down section instead.
• on the artists behalf.

Seen 2 flags like this in 1 week. And have seen it every so often in the past.

NotMeNotYou said:
All analogies are flawed, but that isn't really the point, it would take only a small effort once to change that page and have a improvement, while buying and placing those signs would cost millions.

I'm all for kicking people in the nuts for not knowing things they should know, but why make it harder for them than it has to be?
Also, it is more satisfying to kick them harder the easier you make it for them to know things.

I agree. The more obvious/easier to find they are, the harder you can hit them for being stupid.

As a side note, that privileged users only thing was tried once and turned pic voting into a joke and clear things that should be FFD'd weren't if no one "special" was on.

Also privileged are not infallible. One recently had his status revoked, and for "not furry" IIRC. Just sayin'

Aurali said:
alternatively we can take it back to only priv users and higher, knowing those people have thoroughly read the rules.

Like fur_in_the_dark, who recently went on a not furry flagging binge? Many of our privileged users are just people who were in the right place at the right time.

Guys, I was being sarcastic with the whole "take it away" thing :p come on now.

Any how, I have decided to strip the rules that are hard coded into the flag for deletion page (This wasn't a good idea, I'll need to talk to Tony about why) and bold out the link to the rules section for flag for deletion wiki, with a warning that any discrepancy will lead to alternative action. This will be going up tomorrow in the update

Aurali said:
Guys, I was being sarcastic with the whole "take it away" thing :p come on now.

This is why somebody should create a sarcasm font. :V

Aurali said:
Any how, I have decided to strip the rules that are hard coded into the flag for deletion page (This wasn't a good idea, I'll need to talk to Tony about why) and bold out the link to the rules section for flag for deletion wiki, with a warning that any discrepancy will lead to alternative action. This will be going up tomorrow in the update

Would it be possible to shuffle the "How to flag" around with the "Acceptable FFD reasons" section in the wiki? It looks weird to me to first explain how to do something before telling them what is allowed and what isn't.

Given the TL;DR nature of the internet, some people may stop reading long before they reach the end, disregarding anything after "how" as unimportant clutter.

Placing how-to behind the do-and-do-not forces them to either read it or make them disregard the rules by decision.

NotMeNotYouMobile said:
TL;DR

Not to bring the convo off-topic but can someone tell me what this means? I've seen it a lot and I can't depict what it means

TheHuskyK9 said:
Not to bring the convo off-topic but can someone tell me what this means? I've seen it a lot and I can't depict what it means

Too long;didn't read.

NotMeNotYouMobile said:
Too long;didn't read.

Thank you

Rocket_Corgi said:
[wiki entry]

What you posted is a lot thats missing from the flag an image page.

ippiki_ookami said:
not furry flagging binge

Can we just update the flag image page when you click "flag for deletion" so there is no excuse?

Below this is all it says

If you are an artist of this image or you own a character in this image, please use the takedown form instead.
See this page for more detailed information.

Valid reasons to flag an image for deletion:

Duplicate post (please include original post number in flag reason)
Inferior version of an existing post (smaller, lower quality)
Drawn by an artist or owned by a site on the Avoid Posting list

Invalid reasons to flag an image for deletion:

Image is 'crappy', 'disgusting', or 'unpopular'
You're an artist or character owner and want the image deleted (please use the takedown form)

Failure to follow these guidelines may result in disciplinary action against your account.

Its very outdated. if that flag image page was updated: We would have a lot less flags, a lot less excuses, and it would be so much clearer.

Conker said:
Can we just update the flag image page when you click "flag for deletion" so there is no excuse?

No. He can't just "Update" it. Only tony and I can.. because it's hard coded. and after talking to tony, he's wanting stuff it in the config. Which.. then means only I can update it @.@; but eh, if it's in the config it at least won't effect the other websites, which was my beef.

The FFD site isn't freely editable from ouroboros to ouroboros?
Well, that does limit options.

It is now, and added "not furry" to the list of unacceptable flag reasons in the next update.

NotMeNotYouMobile said:
Too long;didn't read.

My god, you actually spelled it out. My hats off to you good sir!

tony311 said:
It is now, and added "not furry" to the list of unacceptable flag reasons in the next update.

Good to hear :3

Two questions about flagging guidelines.

1. I know that characters don't get on avoid posting list, but is it okay to flag pictures and link to accepted takedown request? Like I've done with post #340905

2. I think that instead of
"If you are an artist of this image or you own a character in this image, please use the takedown form instead."

there should be something like this (maybe phrased in such way that it would include first point)

"If you are an artist of this image or you own a character in this image, and you are not on avoid posting list yet, please use the takedown form instead.

If characters are not on the DNP list that would seem to imply that you should not immediately FFD them.