Implicating eeveelution -> pokemon.

Reason: Every eeveelution is a Pokemon

Why would we need this tag? I see no reason for this to exist except as a rather useless Umbrella-term.

I would like to second the "eeveelution is a bad tag" point.
I don't like it, and I don't think it serves a real purpose.

Oh, good news, there's also an eeveelutions tag.

I see a need for it. It is a specific thing people look for. Dumber ones exist here . . .

CamKitty said:
I see a need for it. It is a specific thing people look for. Dumber ones exist here . . .

You can find the same thing with "pokemon *eon"
You get charmeleon too, but if you hate him that much you can always filter that out.

You know what's even cooler? There's several images with only Eevee (who technically isn't an Eeveelution) but they're still tagged as eeveelution.

yeah i think this tag needs to be smothered with a pillow

Wing_boner, horngasm, I could continue.

There are plenty that stick around because people search for it. Just sayin'

CamKitty said:
Wing_boner, horngasm, I could continue.

There are plenty that stick around because people search for it. Just sayin'

You mentioned 2 tags, that are not redundant and cannot be replaced by other search(es). So no, tags don't stick around just because people search for it.

Well if people do have such a hard on to remove it, "evolves_from_eevee" or something should be added. It's a desired thing, unless you think "pokemon *eon -charmeleon" should be the normal search :P

CamKitty said:
Well if people do have such a hard on to remove it, "evolves_from_eevee" or something should be added. It's a desired thing, unless you think "pokemon *eon -charmeleon" should be the normal search :P

I think the "normal" search is for an individual one of the "eeveeloutions".
But if you want to find them all, then "pokemon *eon -charmeleon" works just fine.

Oh joy, implication was approved.
So apparently feedback in these threads means nothing.

It serves a purpose of grouping a type of pokemon. And for future reference, if we have to use a multi tag meta search for something that can be found with one tag, then you've added more clutter to your search.

It's true that winged horse could find most pegasus images but then you only have 6 more tags to use.

I'm not a fan of this tag myself and would prefer a better one but it serves a purpose in grouping like pokemon so it stays until a better one is suggested or someone has a better reason than using a metasearch such as *eon (which also won't work for tag subscriptions)

Rainbow_Dash said:
It serves a purpose of grouping a type of pokemon. And for future reference, if we have to use a multi tag meta search for something that can be found with one tag, then you've added more clutter to your search.

It's true that winged horse could find most pegasus images but then you only have 6 more tags to use.

I'm not a fan of this tag myself and would prefer a better one but it serves a purpose in grouping like pokemon so it stays until a better one is suggested or someone has a better reason than using a metasearch such as *eon (which also won't work for tag subscriptions)

If we allow tags just to remove "search clutter" then why don't we have gender specific species tags, like vixen and mare.
Or tags for all of the pokemon types, since they would serve the same purpose, grouping pokemon.
Why not a "female_my_little_pony_character" tag, that would cut down on search clutter for a lot of people.

Hammie said:
If we allow tags just to remove "search clutter" then why don't we have gender specific species tags, like vixen and mare.
Or tags for all of the pokemon types, since they would serve the same purpose, grouping pokemon.
Why not a "female_my_little_pony_character" tag, that would cut down on search clutter for a lot of people.

Those are not hard to find, unlike using metatags for *eon.

Butterscotch said:
Those are not hard to find, unlike using metatags for *eon.

Really?
How would you find only images with female horses in them?
Or all images of fire type pokemon?

Hammie said:
If we allow tags just to remove "search clutter" then why don't we have gender specific species tags, like vixen and mare.
Or tags for all of the pokemon types, since they would serve the same purpose, grouping pokemon.
Why not a "female_my_little_pony_character" tag, that would cut down on search clutter for a lot of people.

Eeevelutions is a condensed version of ~Flareon ~Glaceon ~jolteon ~vaporeon ~espeon ~umbreon ~leafeon while vixen would only be fox female, the same with female_mlp_character.

NotMeNotYou said:
Eeevelutions is a condensed version of ~Flareon ~Glaceon ~jolteon ~vaporeon ~espeon ~umbreon ~leafeon while vixen would only be fox female, the same with female_mlp_character.

Searching "fox female" =/= "vixen"
Neither does "female MLP" or "female FIM" = "female_mlp_character".
Female_mlp_character would = "~fluttershy ~rainbow_dash ~princess_luna ~princess_celestia ~applejack ~etc. etc. etc.".

What's next, tag for all Pokemon types? Fire_pokemon, fairy_pokemon,...
And how about starter_pokemon, evolved_pokemon and unevolved_pokemon?

Seems like pointless tag clutter to me.

And yeah, "fox female" != "vixen". Since there are images with multiple characters...

Genjar said:
What's next, tag for all Pokemon types? Fire_pokemon, fairy_pokemon,...
And how about starter_pokemon, evolved_pokemon and unevolved_pokemon?

Seems like pointless tag clutter to me.

And yeah, "fox female" != "vixen". Since there are images with multiple characters...

First half: over generalization
Second half: splitting hairs

lol

CamKitty said:
First half: over generalization
...

But we have "pokemon" which is even more general.
We also have canine, and equine, etc. which are pretty much the same level of generalization as "fire_type" etc.
So, if someone might search for it, and it reduces "search clutter" then how is it not valid, but "eeveeloution" is?

Genjar said:
What's next, tag for all Pokemon types? Fire_pokemon, fairy_pokemon,...
And how about starter_pokemon, evolved_pokemon and unevolved_pokemon?

Seems like pointless tag clutter to me.

And yeah, "fox female" != "vixen". Since there are images with multiple characters...

This.
There should be alias, not implication.

Also the name of this tag alone makes me cry. I guess pokemon fandom is as bad as bronies.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
...I guess pokemon fandom is as bad as bronies.

To be fair, most fandoms are.
Bronies are just the newest.

Genjar said:
What's next, tag for all Pokemon types? Fire_pokemon, fairy_pokemon,...
And how about starter_pokemon, evolved_pokemon and unevolved_pokemon?

Seems like pointless tag clutter to me.

And yeah, "fox female" != "vixen". Since there are images with multiple characters...

Well funny you should mention that because we sorta do that already with magic casters being grouped into subsets. It's just a large umbrella tag to encompass all the eevee type pokemans

Rainbow_Dash said:
Well funny you should mention that because we sorta do that already with magic casters being grouped into subsets. It's just a large umbrella tag to encompass all the eevee type pokemans

Please don't skip the question - are we making fire_type, etc. tag for pokemons? After all it makes much more sense than this tag.

Then we should unalias earth_pony tag for mlp.

And there are even more fandom specific tags possible. Like virus_digimon for digimon, tailsko for sonic series, and so on, and so on...

Magic casters are not fandom specific, these tags can be used for all kinds of pictures. This tag is fandom specific - nobody but some subset of pokemon fans care about it.

It's on a case by case basis. We might make an umbrella tag for fire type pokemon if it serves a purpose

Rainbow_Dash said:
It's on a case by case basis. We might make an umbrella tag for fire type pokemon if it serves a purpose

Yeah, this tag really served its purpose recently. It has 238 uses. Umbreon, which should be only part of this tag, has almost 5 times bigger tag count. If this is accepted than everything else should be accepted.

This is very relevant also to this tag.

The eeveelution needs to remain a tag. Searching for a specific subset of Pokemon with over 3,000 images tagged should not return the entire 600+ pokemon that are unrelated. If anything, it could be implicated, but a tag with that many associated images and nothing else to return the same value apart from using another wide variety of tags shouldn't be aliased.

Okay, so I can understand that there are tags that aren't helpful because they're too rarely applied. But the thing is, I don't think that applies here.

And I say that because it never needs to be manually applied. All of the individual Eevee evolutions can be (and already are!) implicated to it, at which point it simply serves as a convenient umbrella tag for people who are trying to search for all of them. (And people DO use the term, no matter how much others dislike it.)

I even get that wildcard searches can be used. But they're mentioned in exactly one line of the help, and it takes either a more technical background, or a fair bit of experience, before one can construct appropriate wildcard searches to get what's actually desired. Sure, I can, but I'd put good money on the average user needing a lot of explaining before they get it.

So yeah, I don't think this should be aliased. Of course, it already has been, but it's not too late to reverse that.

After talking with char on this (I'd really like his input in person too) I find this tag does have enough use because it's simply too difficult to string together a wild card search when a tag can handle it. The tag is specific, not subjective and has use while not being able to be covered by another already existing tag

Oops, I missed this thread at the time when RD brought the situation up to me.

I think people are getting too hung up on "tag clutter" and not looking at things from a standpoint of "is this actually useful or not".

This is actually one area where I disagree with SnowWolf's post: http://e621.net/forum/show/46136 In my opinion, if there's a tag that can be used to cover a group of characters/species/whatever, and it has no exceptions, then that's a perfectly valid and useful tag. For instance, if I wanted to search for MLP, but specifically did not want any of the Cutie Mark Crusaders, it's a lot nicer to search for "MLP -cutie_mark_crusaders" than it is to search for "MLP -applebloom_(mlp) -scootaloo_(mlp) -sweetie_belle_(mlp)". That takes me 4 tags to do what I could otherwise accomplish with 2 tags (this is assuming that cutie_mark_crusaders implies those 3 characters of course).

I think people need to also keep in mind that as the site continues to grow in size, it needs to continue getting better in its ability to cut through as many posts as possible in order to deliver the results that you want (just look at http://rule34.paheal.net if you disagree; it's basically "reliably" useful only for character names, and shows/franchises to an extent). In order to do so, having relevant tags grouped together under "umbrella" tags is a good solution. We already do this for tags like 'canine', and no one seems to be complaining about that, so the issue seems to just be "where do we draw the line" rather than if this is a practice that we should even be engaging in.

For instance, if e621 was a much smaller site and we only had 100 submissions with canines in them, it's suddenly a lot harder to make the argument that "canine" should be a tag; just search for "wolf" or "dog" or "fox" or whatever, why also group them all under one umbrella tag? Same situation with eeveelutions: just search for "jolteon" or "flareon" or "vaporeon" or whatever, why also group them all under one umbrella tag?

Maybe I'm failing to see what the problem is, but I don't understand how "canine" can be a valid tag while "eeveelution" can't be. They're both umbrella tags and both serve exactly the same function, but just for a different set of tags.