So I made the otherworldly mistake of clicking on the eevee tag while browsing, and oh my god so much feral intercourse was laid before me.
It wouldn't have bugged me if I didn't know that the feral tag was part of my blacklist. The big majority of them didn't have the tag.
I tried to correct the mistake in as many posts as possible until I hit my hourly tagging limit.
Now I know in some cases it's a thin line between feral and anthro, and it could be hard deciding which to use, but with the posts I'm talking about, there wasn't much space left for imagination.
The same happens, albeit a bit toned down, with the MLP stuff.
Why is it that posters don't think about that when uploading their things ? You'd think that, with this kind of content being a sizeable chunk of the e621 data, it would be as obvious a tag as female, male or gay.

Ah, I believe I brought this up once.

Nothing changed, though.

Yeah, I hate when people don't tag properly. But hey, more tag edits for me :)

That's a wonder, what with the so-called "Blacklist-or-die" policy.
What about a "Tag-your-shit-decently-or-die" policy to go with it ?

Armada6280 said:
That's a wonder, what with the so-called "Blacklist-or-die" policy.
What about a "Tag-your-shit-decently-or-die" policy to go with it ?

I'd quite like this to come into play. More than I'd care to say, actually. Though I don't think everyone would like that.

Renard_Queenston said:
I'd quite like this to come into play. More than I'd care to say, actually. Though I don't think everyone would like that.

I think we already do but it's not mentioned as much as blacklisting

Maybe it's because the other majority of the users here:

A. Do not comment, post, make blips, forum posts ect.
B. Cannot tag if their lives depended on it.

Well, I remember someone said that all the users that comment/post are just a tiny fraction of all the other users here.

Renard_Queenston said:
Maybe it's because the other majority of the users here:

A. Do not comment, post, make blips, forum posts ect.
B. Cannot tag if their lives depended on it.

Well, I remember someone said that all the users that comment/post are just a tiny fraction of all the other users here.

Still no excuse for the uploader not to tag the bare minimum. What would people say if there was a sudden influx of untagged gore/scat stuff ?

Renard_Queenston said:
Maybe it's because the other majority of the users here:

A. Do not comment, post, make blips, forum posts ect.
B. Cannot tag if their lives depended on it.

Well, I remember someone said that all the users that comment/post are just a tiny fraction of all the other users here.

Then those people shouldn't upload

Could there be an announcement about it or something ? There's no way things are gonna change with just a measly forum thread. I could try commenting on the corresponding posts but that would just end up being spam at some point.

Eh, I think it's a bad idea to punish uploaders just because they aren't also taggers. It takes a village to run this site. We could just as easily have people haunt the first 3 pages and make sure they always get the bare minimum of tags before they slide off into infinity. And it would probably be a more effective solution. Discouraging uploading though is a bad idea.

furrypickle said:
Eh, I think it's a bad idea to punish uploaders just because they aren't also taggers.

Punishing isn't a good word. I prefer the word "reminding". Reminding them with neutrals and warnings. It sounds better this way, doesn't it?

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Punishing isn't a good word. I prefer the word "reminding". Reminding them with neutrals and warnings. It sounds better this way, doesn't it?

Yep, sounds better, yet it's the same thing.

Butterscotch said:
Yep, sounds better, yet it's the same thing.

Uh, no ? Reminding people has no negative consequence to it. Punishing implies you act negatively upon someone.

Armada6280 said:
Uh, no ? Reminding people has no negative consequence to it. Punishing implies you act negatively upon someone.

Yes, but what they said was "reminding them with neutrals and warnings" which is a negative set of marks against a person's user record. And can lead to an eventual ban. It's not the same as leaving a comment saying "loved the upload, next time could you tag a few basics like gender, species, etc? thanks!". Calling neutrals and warnings "reminding" instead of punishing is just optimistic semantics. It's still punishment.

And when tagging is EVERYONE'S job, it seems disproportionate to expect only the uploader to held liable for not enough tags. Technically every single member who viewed it is just as responsible for that lack of tags. Maybe more so if you factor in that uploading is already one way of adding to this site. So they're already doing more for this site than 90% of the userbase. And the people who view it and then complain are adding nothing. It's not hard to see which group is doing less to contribute to this site and maybe deserves some of these actual "reminders".

I think the problem is this attitude that it's "someone else's job" to make sure the tags are added. It's everyone's job. That attitude is why so many people complain about lack of tags and only a very small percent are adding any. THAT is the real problem here. Not about cracking down on artists who already are contributing to our database through finding and uploading art. Expecting them to do everything is just a form of laziness. With all the hundreds of views each of those pictures gets within hours, there's really no reason they aren't tagged all with the basics.

Technically every single member who viewed it is just as responsible for that lack of tags.

NO, just no.

Uploaders are already reminded, and banned for not tagging genders. And no, tagging should be mainly uploader job. Others are to help if uploader forgot something or mess up for the first time. People with attitude, "Fuck it, I uploaded it - let's have someone else tag it." should be banned or this site would become another FA. I'd rather have less, but well tagged pics than a mess.

furrypickle said:
And when tagging is EVERYONE'S job, it seems disproportionate to expect only the uploader to held liable for not enough tags. Technically every single member who viewed it is just as responsible for that lack of tags. Maybe more so if you factor in that uploading is already one way of adding to this site. So they're already doing more for this site than 90% of the userbase. And the people who view it and then complain are adding nothing. It's not hard to see which group is doing less to contribute to this site and maybe deserves some of these actual "reminders".

I think the problem is this attitude that it's "someone else's job" to make sure the tags are added. It's everyone's job. That attitude is why so many people complain about lack of tags and only a very small percent are adding any. THAT is the real problem here. Not about cracking down on artists who already are contributing to our database through finding and uploading art. Expecting them to do everything is just a form of laziness. With all the hundreds of views each of those pictures gets within hours, there's really no reason they aren't tagged all with the basics.

When you have gore, scat, beastiality coming up every now and then, it should be rather mandatory to at least include the sensitive tags.
I mean, doesn't it strike the uploader that a feral eevee fucking some huge four-titted pokemon with semen dripping all over the place isn't to everybody's taste ? I mean, it's no problem that someone forgets to tag "handcuffs" or something like that, but there's so much feral stuff in there that it should be mandatory to tag it.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
...or this site would become another FA.

Just one brief point: FA is that way BECAUSE uploaders are the only ones who tag. We have it set up for every member to tag in order to avoid that mess. Making it solely the uploader's responsibility makes us more like FA, not less.

I think the more onerous you make it to upload, the less people will upload. And I'd rather have more art, not less.

I also don't see it as an either/or. We have taggers. We have a whole userbase full of more people who could tag if it was easier to learn and our wikis weren't empty. Uploading is a full job. Tagging is a full job. Asking just a few people to do the lion's share of the work is not sustainable. And it's also unnecessary when the whole site is set up for everyone to contribute. Someone who uploads a lot but barely tags is not dead weight. This site is nothing without user contributions of both kinds. We need them just as badly as we need the taggers.

Actually, I'd want less, but much more quality art.

furrypickle said:
Just one brief point: FA is that way BECAUSE uploaders are the only ones who tag. We have it set up for every member to tag in order to avoid that mess. Making it solely the uploader's responsibility makes us more like FA, not less.

I think the more onerous you make it to upload, the less people will upload. And I'd rather have more art, not less.

I also don't see it as an either/or. We have taggers. We have a whole userbase full of more people who could tag if it was easier to learn and our wikis weren't empty. Uploading is a full job. Tagging is a full job. Asking just a few people to do the lion's share of the work is not sustainable. And it's also unnecessary when the whole site is set up for everyone to contribute. Someone who uploads a lot but barely tags is not dead weight. This site is nothing without user contributions of both kinds. We need them just as badly as we need the taggers.

You're implying that the viewers who are bothered by the way stuff is tagged should do something about it.
So you're saying that the people complaining about the lack of tags should be the ones who should do the tagging work ?
Mind you, there's a reason these guys are complaining in the first place. Most of the time, they aren't there because they specifically searched for the tag in question, but rather the opposite.

And the people who view it and then complain are adding nothing. It's not hard to see which group is doing less to contribute to this site and maybe deserves some of these actual "reminders".
I think the problem is this attitude that it's "someone else's job" to make sure the tags are added. It's everyone's job. That attitude is why so many people complain about lack of tags and only a very small percent are adding any. THAT is the real problem here.

So the very people who are disgusted by the type of thing in question should be the ones that tag it ? Christ, you even imply that those guys should be the ones that are punished.
And of course those are the only other people aside from the uploader who are standing out from the rest of the crowd. So if someone has to be punished, it's either one or the other, right ?
Yesterday I busted my ass for half an hour tagging 150+ posts of feral eevee porn. There's a reason it's in my blacklist.
What would you say if people were too lazy to tag genders, orientation, or forgot to tag a big bunch of scat stuff? Should the people who hate it take the time of tagging or should the uploader actually think about the part of the community which isn't into this kind of stuff ?

Armada6280 said:
You're implying that the viewers who are bothered by the way stuff is tagged should do something about it.

No one's implying that.
We're saying it, because the rules say it.
https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=help%3Ablacklist

Halite said:
No one's implying that.
We're saying it, because the rules say it.
https://e621.net/wiki/show?title=help%3Ablacklist

Nothing in the link you posted states anything about that.
Besides, that's retarded, see my post above.

As long as they are providing four tags to their uploads, they are doing what we require of them.

@furrypickle

Less people will help in tagging if they see that uploaders doesn't give a shit, and right after hours of retagging pictures there are dozens of new pictures that need tagging. I get that feeling each time I tag feral tags, and I'm limiting myself only to fim pictures.

feral tag is rather important, and related to people's fetishes. I can understand people not tagging some minor things like straw, bucket, etc. but not this.

Making it solely the uploader's responsibility makes us more like FA, not less.

Not solely, but mainly. There is a difference. I can understand new people who don't know how to tag yet. I can understand few occurrences when uploader was too busy with something else. But if uploader is continuously making bad tags, then maybe xe should leave uploading to someone else.

ippiki_ookami said:
As long as they are providing four tags to their uploads, they are doing what we require of them.

And how is the "Blacklist-or-die" policy supposed to hold up in that case ?
You gotta drop this one or sturdy up tag requirement. I'm all with people not shitting all over posts for subjective reason, but when nobody even tag their posts with the bare minimum, the blacklist plea is null.
And uploaders have already received punishment in the past for omitting genders, as Gilda pointed out. So why not for omitting feral tags?
I'm not necessarily asking for any form of punishment either. Hell, even an announcement, some form of reminder would be a good start. When you see all the untagged stuff out there, it's like they don't even know the tag exists!

Armada6280 said:
Nothing in the link you posted states anything about that.
Besides, that's retarded, see my post above.

Maybe read the large bold text at the top, it says:

If you are having trouble getting an image blacklisted, please make sure that the image is tagged properly. (if it isn't, consider tagging it yourself :) )

Halite said:
Maybe read the large bold text at the top, it says:

If you are having trouble getting an image blacklisted, please make sure that the image is tagged properly. (if it isn't, consider tagging it yourself :) )

I think that there is a difference between "an image", and "hundreds of images with dozens of new coming each day".

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
I think that there is a difference between "an image", and "hundreds of images with dozens of new coming each day".

Well, as ippiki said, requirements are to tag 4 tags minimum.
The rules do also state to do your best to tag your own images.
Problem is, if it's not one person with a pattern of non-tagging then there's not much to do about it.
If 100 people upload a single image that they don't tag very well then you end up with 100 badly tagged images, and no one that you can really punish for it.

In the end, the simple fact is that fixing the problem yourself is much more effective than just complaining about it.

Halite said:
In the end, the simple fact is that fixing the problem yourself is much more effective than just complaining about it.

Feral is as important a tag as gender. And it's just not people putting scarce tagging on their pics. You got pics like this with plenty of tags but just not one of the most important ones. With feral in particular it is omitted quite frequently. It's not necessarily people being lazy with their upload, some of them look like they don't even know the god-damn tag exist. As I said an announcement of sorts would help trim down on uploaders who are already well-willing.

All "blacklist or die" means is don't bitch about art in the comments. Cracking down on tagging isn't going to make people bitch less. And if they do bitch, it's on them and not the uploader.

ippiki_ookami said:
All "blacklist or die" means is don't bitch about art in the comments. Cracking down on tagging isn't going to make people bitch less. And if they do bitch, it's on them and not the uploader.

So what you're saying is that people who are disgusted by that kind of pictures are the ones who should do the colossal work of tagging all of them properly?
Apparently there already is a rule about tagging pics with male/female. Heck, the last ban was even handled by you. Why not do the same with anthro/feral?

Ya, I'm with Gilda, a history of bad tagging should be something that gets warned then punished

So I was trying to clean up the pokemon tag, hit the tag limit rather quickly. I refresh the page and I see some new untagged feral stuff.
It was rather well tagged too, and I'm under the impression the uploader didn't know this specific tag existed.
I just consulted the tagging checklist and it seems the feral tag isn't mentionned. Should I edit it in? Surely it would prevent new uploaders from repeating the same mistake.
I'm still positive that a small announcement, just to remind posters of the tag's existence, would partially solve the problem.

Armada6280 said:
Feral is as important a tag as gender. ...

That's just it, to you it might be, but the the average e621 user/tagger it's not, at all.

As for not wanting to tag pictures you're disgusted with, you're not going to get a ton of sympathy about that, most serious taggers, myself included, have at one point gone through a bunch of images they didn't like to make sure they were properly tagged.
Some people here do it on a regular basis.

I'll tell you right now, based on what I've seen in the past, a news announcement won't help anywhere near as much as you think.
It's just as likely to cause mis-tagging of feral on images that really shouldn't have it.

Halite said:
That's just it, to you it might be, but the the average e621 user/tagger it's not, at all.

Seems like it's not entirely correct. I'm not the only one in this thread who seeks change. Besides, it delivers a lot more information than "fangs" or "tapering penis" as I've seen in some posts, so I don't see why it's not important.

As for not wanting to tag pictures you're disgusted with, you're not going to get a ton of sympathy about that, most serious taggers, myself included, have at one point gone through a bunch of images they didn't like to make sure they were properly tagged.

So? The point is I find it repulsive. I shouldn't be the one to tag all these images in the first place. The thing is, with all these serious taggers you claim are around, no one was able to tag the entirety of the feral posts so far, and according to my recent experience with the pokemon tag, nearly half of the posts in question weren't tagged.
So who does that leaves to clean the mess besides the people who don't want to see it?

I'll tell you right now, based on what I've seen in the past, a news announcement won't help anywhere near as much as you think.
It's just as likely to cause mis-tagging of feral on images that really shouldn't have it.

How would it cause mis-tagging if it's a link to the tag page or the tagging checklist? If uploaders don't take the time to read those they're likely to mis-tag in other fields anyway.

Armada6280 said:
Seems like it's not entirely correct. I'm not the only one in this thread who seeks change. Besides, it delivers a lot more information than "fangs" or "tapering penis" as I've seen in some posts, so I don't see why it's not important.

I didn't say not important, I said not as important to the average user as gender tags.
And it's not.
People are going to be much more interested in whether an image contains males, females, dickgirls, herms, etc. that if it's feral or not.

So? The point is I find it repulsive. I shouldn't be the one to tag all these images in the first place. The thing is, with all these serious taggers you claim are around, no one was able to tag the entirety of the feral posts so far, and according to my recent experience with the pokemon tag, nearly half of the posts in question weren't tagged.
So who does that leaves to clean the mess besides the people who don't want to see it?

No one, that's why people who don't want to see it tend to end up doing tag fixes so often, because they actually care.
You can't force people to tag, no matter what you do there's going to be people who do the minimum.
It comes down to people who care about the accuracy of the tagging to fix the problems.
And a lot of the time the people who care are those who don't want to see certain things and need a tag for their blacklist.

How would it cause mis-tagging if it's a link to the tag page or the tagging checklist? If uploaders don't take the time to read those they're likely to mis-tag in other fields anyway.

People would see the announcement in the news and assume that feral is the new super important tag, in an effort to be helpful it would get over-tagged on images that don't really deserve it.

I didn't say not important, I said not as important to the average user as gender tags.
And it's not.
People are going to be much more interested in whether an image contains males, females, dickgirls, herms, etc. that if it's feral or not.

But it's still a pretty big deal whether the character in the picture is an anatomically accurate dog or an anthro interpretation. It still doesn't explain why so many uploaders disregard this tag.

Halite said:
People would see the announcement in the news and assume that feral is the new super important tag, in an effort to be helpful it would get over-tagged on images that don't really deserve it.

Editing the tagging checklist still could slow down the influx of untagged stuff. That being said, nobody answered my question about whether or not I should do it.