Topic: Tag Alias: Uncolored_fur -> Fur

Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions

We don't need both, but I don't think aliasing away uncolored_fur is a good long term plan. Because fur is a general base tag, so shouldn't the overly general fur be done away with just like skin, eyes, legs, all have? The trend is towards more specific [color]_[base_tag] style of tagging. And when that happens with fur, how will we tag greyscale/black_and_white/line_art fur texture if we've already aliased away the uncolored_fur tag? This alias would cause future problems.

I think it would make more sense to alias away fur since it's a base tag that's become redundant because all fur is tagged with it's color as well (as in blue_fur, red_fur, etc). And then keep the uncolored_fur tag for when something is greyscale/black_and_White/line_art or otherwise doesn't have a color to tag the fur with. Just like uncolored_skin serves a purpose for when someone has a skin texture but is uncolored or unable to be tagged with a regular [color]_skin tag. For the long term, I think this would make far more sense.

Updated by anonymous

That's funny, I think aliasing fur away will cause problems. The uncolored_fur tag isn't being used in most pictures it should be used in. Most pictures have a male and/or female tag, so one could say it's too generic as well. Fur isn't too generic, it's not on every picture, and it's a useful tag to have in order to fix other tags. If one is trying to search for a picture about a dragon with no tags regarding its exterior composition, typing "dragon -fur -scales -feathers" is much easier than "dragon -scales -feathers -white_fur -grey_fur -black_fur -red_fur - all kinds of fur" (*_fur can be buggy, as goes for all wildcard conjugate tags). If someone wants to see all kinds of scalies, marine life and avians, same story. Hair is tagged too, but it's visible on nearly every picture as well.

Updated by anonymous

Addressing all of asphyxia's points, click to read

Asphyxia said:
The uncolored_fur tag isn't being used in most pictures it should be used in.

Those came after a thread about how base tags were going to be handled in the future. So their limited use to date doesn't say much at all when the tag is related to a discussion not much more than a month old. Looking at the number of images under just line_art alone, I can see the need for tagging uncolored instances of fur is clearly there. The question is if we keep the mostly redundant fur tag or if we go completely over to [color] + [base tag] like we already have done for a growing number of tags like skin, eyes, all the color tags, etc? If we go to color + basetag completely then uncolored_fur would be the only way to tag it. It's about consistency and planning a good system for where the site is going.

Asphyxia said:
Most pictures have a male and/or female tag, so one could say it's too generic as well. Fur isn't too generic, it's not on every picture,

It's not how often a tag is used that makes it generic; it's whether it is already covered by other tags that makes it redundant or not. Don't confuse popularity with purpose. male and female are not directly tagged in any other way than by the male and female tags. Fur and skin however are also tagged as fur (or skin) + color. So that means keeping the base tag as separate makes those images get tagged as having fur twice. That's redundant, but can be fine if it still adds something else to the search system.

When one of those two ways it's tagged as having fur in the image is 1, giving less information to the searcher and, 2, it fails to add anything in addition, then it [the base tag] becomes generic and debatable of why it should be kept. So, fur doesn't say anything that [color]_fur wasn't already saying, however [color]_fur says more because it tells you what color that fur is. Of the two, fur is redundant and [color]_fur is more informative. Why should we keep a tag which says the same thing another tag says, only with less information? Use of wildcards for searching all [color]_fur with *_fur leaves the fur tag with no longer any purpose even for searching all fur together.

Asphyxia said:
(*_fur can be buggy, as goes for all wildcard conjugate tags). If someone wants to see all kinds of scalies, marine life and avians, same story. Hair is tagged too, but it's visible on nearly every picture as well.

The buggy issue is actually pretty small, most results return without incident. But all the same it just needs fixing. The more complex the site gets, the more unavoidable use of wildcards is. The moment we aliased away the base color tags in favor of more specific color + basetag combos, was the moment wildcards became necessary and not just useful. Now they're close to reaching the point where that glitch is a real issue, because we just have so many tags now that need a wildcard for searching. I think it's a good direction for the site to go in, but it also means that glitch just needs fixing so that searching as whole can be that much more reliable.

And scalie, marine and avian are species tags, not the same as body surface texture at all. Confusing them would be TWYK instead of TWYS since plenty of furries aren't depicted with typical-of-their-species body texture, and it can vary from picture to picture or artist to artist how their body texture is depicted in an image.

hair is also a base tag. So the same arguments apply to it that applied to skin, eyes, red, blue, etc and that are now being applied to fur.

I just think the much bigger issue needs talked about first is all. What is the overall policy regarding base tags; what is the overall tag system goal here. I think the policy at least should be consistent across the board or else we'll just be undoing some of it again later.

corgi bread said:
I'm all for this alias.

Which one? Two different ideas are being discussed.

Updated by anonymous

Response to Furrypickle:

Since I'm on my phone, typing long explanations and elaborations make my screen crash before I can send the message.

Here's a tag that should also be removed according to your reasoning: canine. There are quite a few speciestags that are implicated to canine, not to begin about the large number that is implicated to dog alone.
Another example: penis. (stop snickering, we're not in eight grade.) all colours are implicated to it; canine, horse, feline, tapered, long, thick, and lots of others too. Does that make it redundant? No it doesn't.
I'm /for/ the keeping of tags you think are redundant, but that doesn't mean this should become an essay battle nor polemic. I'm sorry if my messages are too short.

Updated by anonymous

furrypickle said:
Which one? Two different ideas are being discussed.

The one that the thread is about. :I

Updated by anonymous

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