Implicating monster_girl → female
Link to implication

Reason:

Self-explanatory

We don't tag herms as female.

post #25722

post #18512

post #17960

post #270342

Those should most definitely be tagged with Monster_girl, but they can't be tagged as female because of their actual gender.

For this to work, we would have to have Monster_herm, Monster_dickgirl, etc.

How about we alias "monster_girl" -> "monster" and tag it with female? Do the same thing we did with catgirl

TheHuskyK9 said:
How about we alias "monster_girl" -> "monster" and tag it with female? Do the same thing we did with catgirl

I agree with this.

TheHuskyK9 said:
How about we alias "monster_girl" -> "monster" and tag it with female? Do the same thing we did with catgirl

Isn't monster_girl already aliased to monster? "monster_girl -monster" turns up nothing on search (not even b/l'd posts).

Bongani said:
Isn't monster_girl already aliased to monster? "monster_girl -monster" turns up nothing on search (not even b/l'd posts).

That's because monster_girl currently implies monster.

I still think that should've been an alias though.

Fluttershy said:
That's because monster_girl currently implies monster.

I still think that should've been an alias though.

Sorry, meant implied. (Sometimes my brain races faster than my mouth/fingers).

TheHuskyK9 said:
How about we alias "monster_girl" -> "monster" and tag it with female? Do the same thing we did with catgirl

I'm down.

Most of the Monster girl tags without female seem to be Herms and dickgirls, after all.

Everyone agreed on aliasing monster_girl to monster then adding female manually?

Rainbow_Dash said:
Everyone agreed on aliasing monster_girl to monster then adding female manually?

Yes

Rainbow_Dash said:
Everyone agreed on aliasing monster_girl to monster then adding female manually?

No. Monster implies, well, a monstrous visage, amongst other things. Monster girls are those specifically that have been anthropomorphicized in a cute/beautiful way, regardless of whether they are female, herms or dickgirls (monster girl anemones typically are depicted as dickgirls, and when they were first done- to my knowledge- were portrayed as such). It's more of a classification type (like Pokemon) than it is a "this is a monster and this is a girl." direct inference type tag.

Rainbow_Dash said:
Everyone agreed on aliasing monster_girl to monster then adding female manually?

The female tag is already tagged due to the monster being a girl

123easy said:
No. Monster implies, well, a monstrous visage, amongst other things. Monster girls are those specifically that have been anthropomorphicized in a cute/beautiful way, regardless of whether they are female, herms or dickgirls (monster girl anemones typically are depicted as dickgirls, and when they were first done- to my knowledge- were portrayed as such). It's more of a classification type (like Pokemon) than it is a "this is a monster and this is a girl." direct inference type tag.

Then add the cute tag to an image containing a female monster. The "monster_girl" tag is like tagging an image with "female" and "monster" (also with "cute" by your definition)

So then no alias or implication what so ever?

Rainbow_Dash said:
So then no alias or implication what so ever?

I think aliasing monster_girl -> monster is the best choice.

Rainbow_Dash said:
So then no alias or implication what so ever?

Yes alias

Rainbow_Dash said:
So then no alias or implication what so ever?

Implication to monster makes perfect sense, but doesn't it already have that?

TheHuskyK9 said:
The female tag is already tagged due to the monster being a girl

Then add the cute tag to an image containing a female monster. The "monster_girl" tag is like tagging an image with "female" and "monster" (also with "cute" by your definition)

No, it's not. Like I said, it's a classification, rather than just a descriptor. cute monster girl is just the most basic definition, there's a lot more to the term than just that.

123easy said:
No, it's not. Like I said, it's a classification, rather than just a descriptor. cute monster girl is just the most basic definition, there's a lot more to the term than just that.

What's more to a tag with two words put together and called a species by the people who like it? It's literally just "monster" and "girl" in one word. Also, I don't think your definition is accurate because some of these monsters aren't cute:
post #440416
post #444897
post #426699
post #426429

TheHuskyK9 said:
What's more to a tag with two words put together and called a species by the people who like it? It's literally just "monster" and "girl" in one word. Also, I don't think your definition is accurate because some of these monsters aren't cute:
post #440416 post #444897 post #426699 post #426429

That's why I said that's just the most basic definition. "my little pony" is just saying that those little ponies are yours, after all, what more is in that particular selection of words? :P Sure, it's not a trademark or copyright, but it's still a recognizable catagorization. It's especially common (comparatively) in Japan. As for if those things are cute or not- the first two may not be according to the very specific form of 'cute' that we utilize for the tag to try and keep it as objective as possible, most certainly. But there are those that find them cute, and the latter two I would say are cute even under the specific usage of the tag we use, as well. http://www.fakku.net/tags/monstergirl http://www.fakku.net/manga/limb-legion-english just some examples (the latter is more specific to the Scyllan concept of the 3D model).

123easy said:
That's why I said that's just the most basic definition. "my little pony" is just saying that those little ponies are yours, after all, what more is in that particular selection of words? :P Sure, it's not a trademark or copyright, but it's still a recognizable catagorization. It's especially common (comparatively) in Japan. As for if those things are cute or not- the first two may not be according to the very specific form of 'cute' that we utilize for the tag to try and keep it as objective as possible, most certainly. But there are those that find them cute, and the latter two I would say are cute even under the specific usage of the tag we use, as well. http://www.fakku.net/tags/monstergirl http://www.fakku.net/manga/limb-legion-english just some examples (the latter is more specific to the Scyllan concept of the 3D model).

My little pony is not a species, it's just a name for a show/toy line. We are talking about species. Monster_girl should not be a species nor a tag because it's implying that it's a monster and a female, which both of those tags are in great use. What's wrong with just searching "monster female" in the search bar instead of monster_girl? Just want solo monster_girl? Search "solo monster female". Want a monster_girl having sex? Search "monster female sex". Didn't we agree to steer clear of gender-specific tags? We've already fix'd catgirl, spider_girl, rabbitgirl, etc. this is just another example of those "(species)girl" tags.

TheHuskyK9 said:
My little pony is not a species, it's just a name for a show/toy line. We are talking about species. Monster_girl should not be a species nor a tag because it's implying that it's a monster and a female, which both of those tags are in great use. What's wrong with just searching "monster female" in the search bar instead of monster_girl? Just want solo monster_girl? Search "solo monster female". Want a monster_girl having sex? Search "monster female sex". Didn't we agree to steer clear of gender-specific tags? We've already fix'd catgirl, spider_girl, rabbitgirl, etc. this is just another example of those "(species)girl" tags.

I completely agree it shouldn't be a species tag, because it's a catagorization tag like MLP is. Again, it's not because it's a gender specific tag. It's because it's a catagorization tag- It's explicitly NOT just another "species+girl" tag- or at least shouldn't be getting used as such.

123easy said:
I completely agree it shouldn't be a species tag, because it's a catagorization tag like MLP is. Again, it's not because it's a gender specific tag. It's because it's a catagorization tag- It's explicitly NOT just another "species+girl" tag- or at least shouldn't be getting used as such.

So then what exactly should it be tagged for? It seems to me that it is just tagging female monsters that may or may not be cute, and if that is the case, why don't we have monsterboy, ti's male equivalent?

'Monster girl' is not just a hybrid of monster and girl. It's a specific genre, based on games and manga such as Monster Girl Quest and Daily Life with A Monster Girl. I dunno how to explain it well, so maybe check the wiki: http://monstergirlencyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Mamono

I really don't know what to do with the tag. I think it's valid, but it definitely gets mistagged a lot. Many of the examples posted in this thread aren't actually mamono. Maybe it's not worth keeping.

Thank you for trying to help him understand at least, Genjar. :)

Agreed it gets mistagged a lot, but not sure what to do about it either.

123easy said:
Thank you for trying to help him understand at least, Genjar. :)

Agreed it gets mistagged a lot, but not sure what to do about it either.

So monster_girl is like a type of porn and not an actual female monster?

Genjar said:
'Monster girl' is not just a hybrid of monster and girl. It's a specific genre, based on games and manga such as Monster Girl Quest and Daily Life with A Monster Girl. I dunno how to explain it well, so maybe check the wiki: http://monstergirlencyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Mamono

I really don't know what to do with the tag. I think it's valid, but it definitely gets mistagged a lot. Many of the examples posted in this thread aren't actually mamono. Maybe it's not worth keeping.

If it gets mistagged most of the time, why not alias it to 'mamono' and you provide the wiki? The term 'mamono' is way more straight-forward and less confusing

TheHuskyK9 said:
So monster_girl is like a type of porn and not an actual female monster?

If it gets mistagged most of the time, why not alias it to 'mamono' and you provide the wiki? The term 'mamono' is way more straight-forward and less confusing

Yes, it's a catagorization, this is what I have been saying. Like how "aliens" is a catagory, or "furries" is a catagory.

'Mamono' is the japanese word for "Monster Girl". As we translate all tags to english where possible, that would be incorrect.

If it's a "category" then it shouldn't be a species tag at the very least.

Halite said:
If it's a "category" then it shouldn't be a species tag at the very least.

I'll try changing that at least

Rainbow_Dash said:
So then no alias or implication what so ever?

alias

ippiki_ookami said:
alias

Yes

ippiki_ookami said:
alias

no

ippiki_ookami said:
alias

Yes

TheHuskyK9 said:
Yes

no.

123easy said:
no.

Yes

123easy said:
no.

Yesh

yes

Sure, why not. :3

But then there'll be no way to search for actual monster girls, especially since most of them are missing the proper species tags... At least keep the monster_girl_profile tag, ok?

While we're on the topic, there's more monster girl related tags that should be fixed:
post #38219

Goo girls. We have goo girl, slime girl, goo and slime tags. First three are species tags, slime is a general tag. Here's a short summary:

Goo girl: Slime-type monster girls.
Slime girl: Same as above.
Goo: Currently aliased with ooze and gel. Probably shouldn't be a species tag.
Slime: Mostly non-living slime, with a few JRPG monsters mixed in. I can't see much difference between this and goo.

Those need to be sorted out sooner or later...

I'm not sure I can't disagree with an alias here as it's hard to keep this as a reliable tag when it is gender based or appears gender based

Other catagorizations are kept regardless of what they are based on- WHy is it so hard to keep monster girl? It never should have been a species tag, no idea why it was. Either way, it should definitely not be aliased to monster, at the very least- That's messing up the catagorization.

123easy said:
Other catagorizations are kept regardless of what they are based on- WHy is it so hard to keep monster girl? It never should have been a species tag, no idea why it was. Either way, it should definitely not be aliased to monster, at the very least- That's messing up the catagorization.

Because the tag directly implies that it needs a girl in it

Rainbow_Dash said:
Because the tag directly implies that it needs a girl in it

I don't see the problem. They're all females in the canon, and the tag shouldn't be used for herms, etc.

Genjar said:
I don't see the problem. They're all females in the canon, and the tag shouldn't be used for herms, etc.

That's the problem, it's gender-specific. We want tags that can be applied to all genders. If we allowed this, then it's going to be a hot mess. Chances are that the majority of people are going to tag an image with monster_girl when they see a female monster in a image because they are tagging what they see (that's what's currently happening). You've already stated that this is being mistagged constantly and it's not going to stop anytime soon due to no one researching something every time before they tag. Even though you and Easy don't like but it's best to alias it so we can end the problem.

TheHuskyK9 said:
That's the problem, it's gender-specific. We want tags that can be applied to all genders. If we allowed this, then it's going to be a hot mess. Chances are that the majority of people are going to tag an image with monster_girl when they see a female monster in a image because they are tagging what they see (that's what's currently happening). You've already stated that this is being mistagged constantly and it's not going to stop anytime soon due to no one researching something every time before they tag. Even though you and Easy don't like but it's best to alias it so we can end the problem.

I agree with everything Husky said.

TheHuskyK9 said:
That's the problem, it's gender-specific. We want tags that can be applied to all genders. If we allowed this, then it's going to be a hot mess. Chances are that the majority of people are going to tag an image with monster_girl when they see a female monster in a image because they are tagging what they see (that's what's currently happening). You've already stated that this is being mistagged constantly and it's not going to stop anytime soon due to no one researching something every time before they tag. Even though you and Easy don't like but it's best to alias it so we can end the problem.

Exactly my point when I said the problem is with it having girl in it, which makes people mistag it

TheHuskyK9 said:
That's the problem, it's gender-specific. We want tags that can be applied to all genders. If we allowed this, then it's going to be a hot mess. Chances are that the majority of people are going to tag an image with monster_girl when they see a female monster in a image because they are tagging what they see (that's what's currently happening). You've already stated that this is being mistagged constantly and it's not going to stop anytime soon due to no one researching something every time before they tag. Even though you and Easy don't like but it's best to alias it so we can end the problem.

As a catagorization, it does apply to all genders- though it is a bit of a misnomer in that herms and dickgirls also fall under it though it simply notes 'girl' in the name. As an example, My Little Pony being tagged on a non-pony doesn't invalidate My Little Pony as a catagorization tag because it's used on images where the character is not a pony- It's understood it falls under the aegis of the catagory being tagged in some way. It's the exact same thing, just something not as popular and/or widely known. I'd rather see mistags of general female monsters than have the Monster Girls catagory invalidated, anyday.

123easy said:
As a catagorization, it does apply to all genders- though it is a bit of a misnomer in that herms and dickgirls also fall under it though it simply notes 'girl' in the name. As an example, My Little Pony being tagged on a non-pony doesn't invalidate My Little Pony as a catagorization tag because it's used on images where the character is not a pony- It's understood it falls under the aegis of the catagory being tagged in some way. It's the exact same thing, just something not as popular and/or widely known. I'd rather see mistags of general female monsters than have the Monster Girls catagory invalidated, anyday.

Users won't know that it's a categorization tag unless the research it first, which no one will do. MLP is a show/toy line and they have their own sets of characters that belong (copyrighted) to the show/toy line. If one of their characters is humanized, it still gets tagged with MLP because the character is from the show/toy line. Monster_girl has no sets of characters, it's not a show, and it does not have copyrights. Now if it was some kind of company or show, this would be a different story. Also, you rather see the problem progress rather than fixing it is a bit backwards logic, don't you agree?

TheHuskyK9 said:
Users won't know that it's a categorization tag unless the research it first, which no one will do. MLP is a show/toy line and they have their own sets of characters that belong (copyrighted) to the show/toy line. If one of their characters is humanized, it still gets tagged with MLP because the character is from the show/toy line. Monster_girl has no sets of characters, it's not a show, and it does not have copyrights. Now if it was some kind of company or show, this would be a different story. Also, you rather see the problem progress rather than fixing it is a bit backwards logic, don't you agree?

This really sums it up here. My little pony is the actual copyright it comes from, like valve or steam, despite neither franchises actually containing valves or steam. Monster girl just makes users think it is for monsters that are female, as the name would suggest and that is where the problem is occurring. Even after looking at the tags, I can't find any consistent categorization of this type of character other than it being female and a monster

TheHuskyK9 said:
Monster_girl has no sets of characters, it's not a show, and it does not have copyrights.

Just because it's a shared universe (comparable to scp_foundation), doesn't mean that it doesn't have copyrights. It is based on Monster Girl Encyclopedia by Kenkou Cross, and the setting has been used in numerous games and manga.

In any case, aliasing it to monster would be bad. Because common monster girl types include (among others) centaurs, devils, angels, witches, mermaids, etc. Those aren't generally tagged as monsters here. It's comparable to Pokemon in that regard: they may be called pocket monsters, but shouldn't be tagged as monsters if they don't look like a monster.

Genjar said:
In any case, aliasing it to monster would be bad. Because common monster girl types include (among others) centaurs, devils, angels, witches, mermaids, etc. Those aren't generally tagged as monsters here. It's comparable to Pokemon in that regard: they may be called pocket monsters, but shouldn't be tagged as monsters if they don't look like a monster.

In that case, the monster_girl tag is very misleading to users. So far from the info I have recieved, monster_girl is not applied to images with a female monster, AND the tag shouldn't include the monster tag? More and more reasons to alias it to something else

Genjar said:
Just because it's a shared universe (comparable to scp_foundation), doesn't mean that it doesn't have copyrights. It is based on Monster Girl Encyclopedia by Kenkou Cross, and the setting has been used in numerous games and manga.

In any case, aliasing it to monster would be bad. Because common monster girl types include (among others) centaurs, devils, angels, witches, mermaids, etc. Those aren't generally tagged as monsters here. It's comparable to Pokemon in that regard: they may be called pocket monsters, but shouldn't be tagged as monsters if they don't look like a monster.

That just made a plethora of mess for trying to ever tag it right then, as if it's just the name of a type of creature from an encyclopedia that has many varying types of creatures, this tag will never be tagged correctly and we should alias it to like monster_girl_(encyclopedia_whatever) instead of leaving it as is

Rainbow_Dash said:
That just made a plethora of mess for trying to ever tag it right then, as if it's just the name of a type of creature from an encyclopedia that has many varying types of creatures, this tag will never be tagged correctly

Fair enough. As I mentioned earlier, it might not be worth keeping.
Monster girls are only marginally furry... and we probably don't have many taggers here who are familiar with them.

I think the monster_girl_profile tag should be kept, it's far less likely to be misused. But I dunno where to alias the main tag.

Here's a few examples:
post #224134 post #38162 post #91558 post #38225 post #38158
Purely by TWYS, I don't think those count as monsters; and it can't be aliased to female either, because there are herms mixed in. They're not all obvious hybrids either. :|

Genjar said:
Fair enough. As I mentioned earlier, it might not be worth keeping.
Monster girls are only marginally furry... and we probably don't have many taggers here who are familiar with them.

I think the monster_girl_profile tag should be kept, it's far less likely to be misused. But I dunno where to alias the main tag.

Here's a few examples:
post #224134 post #38162 post #91558 post #38225 post #38158
Purely by TWYS, I don't think those count as monsters; and it can't be aliased to female either, because there are herms mixed in. They're not all obvious hybrids either. :|

That's why I think aliasing it to monster_girl_(encyclopedia) or similar would be best

Rainbow_Dash said:
That's why I think aliasing it to monster_girl_(encyclopedia) or similar would be best

the monster_girl_profile tag is fine as is, it's the monster_girl tag that's the issue; aliasing it to the profile or to _encyclopedia is misleading, especially when there are so many images that don't have the profile format as shown in Genjar's post or in an encyclopedic format...

Would '_(kenkou_cross)' or '_(MGE)' (for Monster Girl Encyclopedia) work you think, Genjar? I know that they aren't all of that series (the fan creations and mistags and such), but since they are based on that world, it seems reasonable to me... The only reason I've not put that idea forward before is because we specifically shut down doing that for MLP fan created work, leaving it only for characters that are canon. x_x

123easy said:
the monster_girl_profile tag is fine as is, it's the monster_girl tag that's the issue; aliasing it to the profile or to _encyclopedia is misleading, especially when there are so many images that don't have the profile format as shown in Genjar's post or in an encyclopedic format...

Would '_(kenkou_cross)' or '_(MGE)' (for Monster Girl Encyclopedia) work you think, Genjar? I know that they aren't all of that series (the fan creations and mistags and such), but since they are based on that world, it seems reasonable to me... The only reason I've not put that idea forward before is because we specifically shut down doing that for MLP fan created work, leaving it only for characters that are canon. x_x

This would probably get approved because unlike the fan created mlp work, the name of this one is probably the most misleading tag I've seen yet

Rainbow_Dash said:
This would probably get approved because unlike the fan created mlp work, the name of this one is probably the most misleading tag I've seen yet

In that case I'd support alias to either of those suffix variants.

Maybe alias it to monster_girl_encyclopedia, and only tag it for monster girls that are clearly based on the setting? Borderline cases should not get the tag.

Though aliasing monster_girl to anything won't solve the problem: it'll still be mistagged frequently.

Genjar said:
Maybe alias it to monster_girl_encyclopedia, and only tag it for monster girls that are clearly based on the setting? Borderline cases should not get the tag.

Though aliasing monster_girl to anything won't solve the problem: it'll still be mistagged frequently.

True but at least it won't be confusing for like 99% of the people that use it

Rainbow_Dash said:
True but at least it won't be confusing for like 99% of the people that use it

And at least it'll be a lot easier to clean up since it'll be more well defined for those who don't know what it is immediately when tagging it.

Genjar said:
Maybe alias it to monster_girl_encyclopedia, and only tag it for monster girls that are clearly based on the setting? Borderline cases should not get the tag.

Though aliasing monster_girl to anything won't solve the problem: it'll still be mistagged frequently.

Aliasing it to female would result in 0 mistags.

It would however confuse the hell out of anyone searching for it as a term if they don't know about the alias.

Halite said:
Aliasing it to female would result in 0 mistags.

It would however confuse the hell out of anyone searching for it as a term if they don't know about the alias.

hmm. Good point. Just need to tag those images that are obviously based on the series with monster_girl_encyclopedia (or monster_girl_quest) as appropriate, first.

perhaps we should alias it to the female and make a wiki entry, then a good tag clean up and call it a day?

Rainbow_Dash said:
perhaps we should alias it to the female and make a wiki entry, then a good tag clean up and call it a day?

I think doing the tag cleanup first, to give them the MGE tag, would be more appropriate. On that note, can we get MGE aliased to Monster_Girl_Encyclopedia? Would make tagging and searching it a lot easier.

123easy said:
I think doing the tag cleanup first, to give them the MGE tag, would be more appropriate. On that note, can we get MGE aliased to Monster_Girl_Encyclopedia? Would make tagging and searching it a lot easier.

That is my plan

Rainbow_Dash said:
That is my plan

So what do we clean up?

monster_girl needs to be cleaned up to only contain images from the copyright/franchise or whatever it is considered