Some time ago, "deleted" images were never actually removed and anyone could easily download every deleted picture by clicking on a download link. That was stupid.

Later it was "fixed" by disabling searching for deleted pictures. That was stupid.

Now, when I visit a deleted picture's page, there's no download link. Great, some progress here! But searching for deleted pictures is still disabled. And even deleted-preview.png still doesn't exist.

Guys, this is stupid.

P.S. For the record, I need searching deleted posts to measure assholery of artists, like not allowing coloring of their pictures, bitching about hi-res versions of their pictures and stuff like that.

Why would you need to search for deleted images?
They're deleted, so you can't see them anymore.

You could do by searching for status:deleted. But if you really want to see just head on to the takedown requests . You won't see any posts but you can see why artists removed their art (usually because they don't like TWYS, their beloved "original" character is not tagged as they like - herm with 500 dicks when we don't see either -, they have a hissy fit in the coments with fellow users and/or admins or they don't want their art reposted elsewhere - which, imho, is just dumb, I mean, they can have more attention and possibly commissions)

Why would we let people search through deleted art? That completely defeats the purpose.

Halite said:
Why would you need to search for deleted images?

To check if a recently uploaded image is a repost of a deleted one.

Munkelzahn said:
To check if a recently uploaded image is a repost of a deleted one.

Oh, if that were the case, then he (or she, I dunno, we have'nt a formal introduction) should go to the deleted index

Just sayin' c:

ippiki_ookami said:
Why would we let people search through deleted art? That completely defeats the purpose.

I'm not saying we should see the pictures, but I do think the tags/comments should still show just with a click of the [deleted] thumbnail, not the broken image we have now.
Kinda like if you got a direct link to a deleted image's page, the image wouldn't be there but the tags would be, so you can find the artist or publisher etc of a piece of work that you liked, even if it's not on the site anymore.
But as it stands now the search for status:deleted doesn't give the score/tags/uploader/post# about what image was deleted, even though I know that a direct page link could get me that information. But without information such as the post# on the deleted images scroll-over info box, there is no way of getting to that page and finding those tags.

Halite said:
Why would you need to search for deleted images?
They're deleted, so you can't see them anymore.

Try reading postscriptum in the original posting. Try reading the rest of the original posting too.

Xch3l said:
But if you really want to see just head on to the takedown requests .

Can't be searched by artist tags, only by source. With artists having many galleries, it's painful. And not integrated with post searching.

ippiki_ookami said:
Why would we let people search through deleted art? That completely defeats the purpose.

And the purpose is?

I don't want to see the picture, I want to be able to search for "artist_name status:deleted", see numerous takedown requests and decide to avoid uploading this asshole's art like plague. I don't see how removing LINKS from the search results page achieves anything. Pages of deleted posts can be seen by everyone anyway, so all information is available (tags, takedown text etc.), but search functionaility is broken.

It would also be great to see comments, but this can cause problems with assholes, so whatever.

You know, at the top of assholery there's Jeremy Bernal. Then all artists on the DNP list who scream about being robbed. Then all artists actually having reasons to be on the DNP list (like selling art). All they are well documented and easy to search. But there's a separate level of artists who find random reasons of removing art without being added to the DNP list (wrong tags! unauthorized coloring!). And it's damn hard to identify them.

This seems like a terrible reason for this request. An artist should not have to suffer for filing a takedown. While I may not agree with some of their requests, it is their right and they can do it for whatever reason they want.

As long as you use appropriate tagging, the system will take care of any artists that have requested that they are actively not posted here.

Implying that they are "assholes" for doing so, I also disagree with. Disagree with them all you want, but this is not the way to go about it.

It is our right as free people to be able to make informed decisions, like "That person is a fucktwat". Someone who has a few takedown requests, oh well. If they're constantly doing takedowns for really shitty reasons (like the 'Hey, I see you're posting pictures of me, since my fursona IS me, stop posting pictures of the real me' guy), that artist is an asshole. That information shouldn't be obfuscated, PERIOD. Don't you dare protect them from having to live with the consequences of their actions.

FeralBeast said:
Can't be searched by artist tags, only by source. With artists having many galleries, it's painful. And not integrated with post searching.

Hey, the search box takes anything as along as it's the artist name. Did you tried it? In fact, it provides a list of the posts in dispute (and if you have my userscript installed, you can see them if they're not deleted).

[asshole]x3

Shush... shhhh... sshhh... Whoa! Just take it easy, man! Calling people like that won't take you very far... Also, not all artists are assholes, they request that for personal reasons or because they want to start clean anew

123easy said:
It is our right as free people to be able to make informed decisions, like "That person is a fucktwat". Someone who has a few takedown requests, oh well. If they're constantly doing takedowns for really shitty reasons (like the 'Hey, I see you're posting pictures of me, since my fursona IS me, stop posting pictures of the real me' guy), that artist is an asshole. That information shouldn't be obfuscated, PERIOD. Don't you dare protect them from having to live with the consequences of their actions.

E621 has the right to display, or not display any information(aside from displaying real life personal info) that they choose to, or choose not to.
And it's their website, so they win the "rights" argument.

On top of which, there is no right in the law or constitution that say you have the right to that information, at all.

Your post is not only rude, it's disrespectful of the people who run this site and the choices they have made.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
This seems like a terrible reason for this request. An artist should not have to suffer for filing a takedown. While I may not agree with some of their requests, it is their right and they can do it for whatever reason they want.

I don't get it. If an artist requests removal of his art for random reasons, the art is removed(!), but the mere FACT that others see those removals makes them SUFFER? Wat?

Let's make it clear: ALL information is already available. I can scrape it or something. The only thing that doesn't work is search. Well, a part of it (takedowns can be searched, but not posts and tags). How come search makes artists suffer?

I bet uploaders who spend their time finding, uploading, tagging stuff to only see it removed and their uploading limits lowered because "STOP POSTING REAL MEEEEEE!!!11111oneone" suffer more.

FeralBeast said:
I don't get it. If an artist requests removal of his art for random reasons, the art is removed(!), but the mere FACT that others see those removals makes them SUFFER? Wat?

No, he's saying that the reason you want to see the deleted art ("to measure assholery of artists") makes them suffer, not having the art searchable in the first place.

It does no one any good to make secret the list of material not allowed to be posted here. It needs to be public so we don't post things that will get deleted later, since we get penalized for that, and it's obviously a letdown to have your carefully tagged images removed from view.

tony311 said:
No, he's saying that the reason you want to see the deleted art ("to measure assholery of artists") makes them suffer, not having the art searchable in the first place.

Being an asshole, measuring assholery of others is my second nature. But if you insist...

I want to avoid posting art of sensitive artists who frequently politely request to remove their art for various important personal reasons. I'm just caring about moderators and administrators of this wonderful site and want to reduce their load. With me (and hopefully other users) avoiding to post art of sensitive artists there will be less take-down requests, less passionate comments, and other unpleasant things to take care of. And what's most important, sensitive artists will suffer much less, because their art won't be shared!

Better?

Although I don't necessarily agree that we shouldn't allow searching for status:deleted, I do still kind of wonder what the point would be. If you're wanting to know why artists and character owners want their artwork deleted, the takedown list is right here: https://e621.net/takedown. If you're wanting to know why a SPECIFIC artist or character owner wants their artwork removed, you can search for their name or website using the takedown list's search tool too.

What are you wanting to do regarding deleted posts on the site that can't be accomplished by just searching through the takedown list or looking at the recent deletions page?

FeralBeast said:
Being an asshole, measuring assholery of others is my second nature. But if you insist...

I want to avoid posting art of sensitive artists who frequently politely request to remove their art for various important personal reasons. I'm just caring about moderators and administrators of this wonderful site and want to reduce their load. With me (and hopefully other users) avoiding to post art of sensitive artists there will be less take-down requests, less passionate comments, and other unpleasant things to take care of. And what's most important, sensitive artists will suffer much less, because their art won't be shared!

Better?

Then ask them for permission to post their artwork? ?_? I'm sure they'll gladly tell you whether they're ok with it or not. Many even say so directly on their FA/IB/DA user profile pages.

Char said:
Then ask them for permission to post their artwork? ?_? I'm sure they'll gladly tell you whether they're ok with it or not. Many even say so directly on their FA/IB/DA user profile pages.

We need to enforce this more. I've seen more and more posts get taken down due to the uploader not asking the artist or character owner's permission

TheHuskyK9 said:
We need to enforce this more. I've seen more and more posts get taken down due to the uploader not asking the artist or character owner's permission

As far as I'm aware it's still the most common reason cited by far in takedown requests. There seems to be a stigma that "most artists" want their artwork removed for a variety of "petty" reasons. Fact is that if people were asking for permission, we'd have far fewer takedown requests, since a) the artist might say it's ok to upload their art after asking for permission, or b) the artist would say 'no' so the art wouldn't be uploaded to begin with.

Of course, this is an ideal, not reality. The impression I get is most users just don't want to bother asking permission, and hope that the artist either won't find out their art has been reposted, or won't care. That's the impression that the artists get of e621 users too, in my experience.

Not that's it's surprising or anything, it is pretty much how the internet works. Look at Youtube for example; how much content on there is posted without permission? It's obviously far more common for people to not ask permission than otherwise, and doing so can often be hugely beneficial to the people whose content was reposted. I don't know if e621 has really become the YouTube of the furry fandom yet, we still lag behind FA as far as traffic (but not by much, especially compared to any other furry art site). If/when e621 does become the most popular furry art site, it may bring back some of those who previously haven't wanted their artwork on it. (but the site itself needs some MAJOR changes before that could even be a possibility)

Oh dear, looks like I rambled a bit. :|

'course, there's also the language barrier to consider. For instance, if the permissions were enforced more strictly, there'd be considerably less Japanese art uploaded.

Though that could be a good thing. Kemonono was closed down after numerous artists complained about their art being posted there without permission...and I see many of those exact same doujins here. Some of which are still sold. That'll probably cause problems, sooner or later. :/

Char said:
Although I don't necessarily agree that we shouldn't allow searching for status:deleted, I do still kind of wonder what the point would be.

As for posts that were removed for reasons other than artist request, such as paysite and the like, I'd like to see either the who the artist is so I can find their work, especially if I have it favorited.
A lot of DNP artists still have links on their wiki page to where you can find their work, and just don't want their content here (be it posted without permission or the like) . It's not that they don't want people to see their work, they just don't want it on the site, but if we cannot locate the tags of a deleted post, we aren't able to find this (I generally can remember the post given a few tags) and the artist loses out.
This also goes for Avoid Posting artists, with perhaps certain artwork they do not allow to be posted, but without a certain image that you like, you aren't able to identify them.

Char said:
Although I don't necessarily agree that we shouldn't allow searching for status:deleted, I do still kind of wonder what the point would be. If you're wanting to know why artists and character owners want their artwork deleted, the takedown list is right here: https://e621.net/takedown. If you're wanting to know why a SPECIFIC artist or character owner wants their artwork removed, you can search for their name or website using the takedown list's search tool too.

Okay, let's try.

Takedowns, search 'moodyferret' - 1 takedown request, 6 deleted posts

Posts, search 'moodyferret status:deleted' - 3 pages of results, 188 deleted posts

Fail.

Char said:
Then ask them for permission to post their artwork? ?_? I'm sure they'll gladly tell you whether they're ok with it or not. Many even say so directly on their FA/IB/DA user profile pages.

Have you read the discussion? We're talking about artists removing art for random reasons like mismatching tags, personal characters, colorings and stuff like that. They can't be fixed.

Char said:
Of course, this is an ideal, not reality. The impression I get is most users just don't want to bother asking permission, and hope that the artist either won't find out their art has been reposted, or won't care. That's the impression that the artists get of e621 users too, in my experience.

There's another problem. If there's at least one picture by an artist already uploaded, asking them for permission may result in DNP list being extended by yet another point. This is especially unfortunate if there're a lot of posts.

Sometimes being an asshole hoping an artist won't know about e621 is the best strategy.

If most people were reasonable, the world would have been very different.

FeralBeast said:
Okay, let's try.

Takedowns, search 'moodyferret' - 1 takedown request, 6 deleted posts

Posts, search 'moodyferret status:deleted' - 3 pages of results, 188 deleted posts

Fail.

Have you read the takedown? (click on the ID)

takedown #2359:
My "hardcore fetish" art is on the DNP list.

The list shows the ones the artist could find when filling the takedown. "Special" means that it would span a lot of posts.

DNP Status means that most art will be deleted, regardless of it being on that list or not

Char said:
Then ask them for permission to post their artwork? ?_? I'm sure they'll gladly tell you whether they're ok with it or not. Many even say so directly on their FA/IB/DA user profile pages.

Have you read the discussion? We're talking about artists removing art for random reasons like mismatching tags, personal characters, colorings and stuff like that. They can't be fixed.

What? Do you want to fix artists? Just kidding. You can't change a person's behavior at will.

Char said:
Of course, this is an ideal, not reality. The impression I get is most users just don't want to bother asking permission, and hope that the artist either won't find out their art has been reposted, or won't care. That's the impression that the artists get of e621 users too, in my experience.

There's another problem. If there's at least one picture by an artist already uploaded, asking them for permission may result in DNP list being extended by yet another point. This is especially unfortunate if there're a lot of posts.

Sometimes being an asshole hoping an artist won't know about e621 is the best strategy.

If most people were reasonable, the world would have been very different.

Here's something I say often: "In a perfect world [something]. Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world". "[Something]" here would be "people are reasonable". Problem is, people often get overly attached to their stuff, to the point they would move islands for them... Psycologically, it's wrong (I'm not saying that somebody has a psycological problem), because it affects their perception of reality... but that's how I see it...

FeralBeast said:
Okay, let's try.

Takedowns, search 'moodyferret' - 1 takedown request, 6 deleted posts

Posts, search 'moodyferret status:deleted' - 3 pages of results, 188 deleted posts

Fail.

This is a rare exception, because MoodyFerret submitted takedown requests via email to us before we even HAD a takedown system on the site itself. Shortly after I started administrating the site, I asked the site developers to code up a publicly accessible takedown system, so users could know when and why an artist had artwork removed from the site, and which posts were removed. This was sometime in 2011, and virtually every single takedown request since then has gone through the takedown system.

FeralBeast said:
Have you read the discussion? We're talking about artists removing art for random reasons like mismatching tags, personal characters, colorings and stuff like that. They can't be fixed.

These will all appear in takedown requests, because that's the only way an artist can have artwork removed from the site. The only exception to that would be if the artist is on the DNP list, in which case we (try to) automatically remove their artwork if it's uploaded.

FeralBeast said:
There's another problem. If there's at least one picture by an artist already uploaded, asking them for permission may result in DNP list being extended by yet another point. This is especially unfortunate if there're a lot of posts.

Sometimes being an asshole hoping an artist won't know about e621 is the best strategy.

If most people were reasonable, the world would have been very different.

I'm afraid such a way of thinking is completely opposite of how the administration wants/needs to run the site. We are the 2nd most popular furry site on the entire internet, and not that far behind FA based on the information I have access to. It's completely unreasonable at this point to expect that an artist is not going to find out that their artwork is being uploaded to e621. If they don't find out themselves, SOMEONE is going to tell them. The days of "let's just hope they don't notice" are long behind us.

Again, I'm not saying that we shouldn't allow users to search for status:deleted, as I personally think it wouldn't really hurt anything at this point, and would address some of the things that Moon_Moon mentioned above.

Char said:
This is a rare exception

zonkpunch takedowns - 2 takedowns, 2 removed posts
zonkpunch posts - 12 removed posts

Not on the DNP list. The first post was uploaded on 2013-03-10. Surely takedowns already worked by then? And yes, I've checked all URLs of the artist. Those without "zonkpunch" in the name return zero results.

Also, both takedowns are described as "stolen art", yet the true reason is that a sketch by the artist was colored without permission. No way I could decipher that.

Char said:
I'm not saying that we shouldn't allow users to search for status:deleted, as I personally think it wouldn't really hurt anything at this point

Who decides? I thought admins do. :)

FeralBeast said:
zonkpunch takedowns - 2 takedowns, 2 removed posts
zonkpunch posts - 12 removed posts

Not on the DNP list. The first post was uploaded on 2013-03-10. Surely takedowns already worked by then? And yes, I've checked all URLs of the artist. Those without "zonkpunch" in the name return zero results.

Just because a picture was tagged with an artist's name, and was removed, does not mean it was the artist that had it removed. Again, an artist can only have artwork removed via takedown request. Everything else you linked there were either duplicates or inferior versions of other posts, or commercial content less than 2 years old, which is on the DNP list.

FeralBeast said:
Also, both takedowns are described as "stolen art", yet the true reason is that a sketch by the artist was colored without permission. No way I could decipher that.

The artist does not have to provide any reason at all, it's their artwork and revealing why they want it removed is entirely up to their discretion. Takedown request submitters even have the option of hiding their takedown "reason" from the public in case they're needing artwork removed for personal reasons or reasons that involve personal information. (as stated on the form that they submit, we WILL unhide the reason if there's no need for it to be hidden; they don't get to just hide behind the request. If it's something like "I only want my art on my FA", that's something that e621 users need to be aware of).

Normally the default "Deletion Reason" that's applied to posts that are deleted via takedown request is simply "Artist requests images to be removed" with a link to the specific takedown request too. I guess NotMeNotYou wanted to be more specific with the deletion reason in that particular case.

FeralBeast said:
zonkpunch takedowns - 2 takedowns, 2 removed posts
zonkpunch posts - 12 removed posts

In chronological order beginning from oldest:

Smaller version of post #354831.
Inferior version of post #375665. Lower resolution and JPG versus PNG parent.
repost of 303220
repost of #381882
takedown #2042: Artist requests image to be removed
repost [of https://e621.net/post/show/390113]
commercial content
commercial content
Duplicate post of #438319
takedown #2391: Edited without the artist's permission
takedown #2391: Edited without the artist's permission

As has been said before, we clean images up and only keep the best version around, or if the versions are different enough to make sense (sketch, flat, shaded for example), when people upload the same image in different resolutions or different formats we generally keep only the best version around.

As to why the takedown #2391 has two different deleted posts but only one in the takedown request itself, the image was deleted once through the takedown, but was later uploaded by another user, but because it was taken down once already we deleted it for the same reason again, but without a new take down.
The uploads come from two different people or there would have been a record in there as well.

FeralBeast said:
Also, both takedowns are described as "stolen art", yet the true reason is that a sketch by the artist was colored without permission. No way I could decipher that.

We had an email conversation parallel to the takedown, I simply didn't fill in the notes on the takedown itself.

FeralBeast said:
Who decides? I thought admins do. :)

It's a group decision.

@Char
@NotMeNotYou

While in case of zonkpunch, most important information can be extracted, there're still some issues:

1. Extracting information from takedowns requires more clicks and thus time (click "?" next to the artist's tag, copy all URLs (if they are filled in), search takedowns for all URLs, open tab for every takedown from every search result page, open tab for every post of every takedown versus click artist's name, add "status:deleted" into search box, click every post). Overall, takedowns are just not integrated well with the rest of the website and takedown page is too minimalistic.

2. An artist having commercial content may be useful information.

As to why the takedown #2391 has two different deleted posts but only one in the takedown request itself

Shouldn't the second post be added to the takedown then?

Also, where's link to takedowns page in the menu? I can't find it.

There is no direct link, you need to click the >> at the top of the page and then Takedown Requests on the right somewhere.

And no, it is sadly a technical limitation that we can't edit an approved takedown again or else I would update it.

I'd like to add that it would be a great idea to have some way to see the deletion reason from a deleted posts thumbnail, maybe have it link to child or parent posts as well.