I'm really fed up with the fact that some members on here feel the need to edit other artists work to suit their own tastes and fetishes.
You wonder why so many artists loathe this site so much? Because we take their work without asking and THEN we edit it for our own pleasure.

I don't think anyone should be too pevved over having their work reposted, but if I were an artist and someone vandalized pictures I drew just because they didn't like them the way I drew it I'd be just as angry.
Is there a rule about not editing other peoples artwork that I missed? Because that really should be against the rules.

If e621's missions is to be more friendly and caring to the artists who get posted here then it seems like a step in the right direction to ban user vandalized pictures...

Every other form of media/art gets ripped, edited, mixed, reused, changed, burned, blatantly plagiarized, copied, stolen and often abused without permission.
Why are furry artist the uppity bunch whom feel what happens to every thing else, shouldn't happen to them, and we must protect their ego.

Murmillos said:
Every other form of media/art gets ripped, edited, mixed, reused, changed, burned, blatantly plagiarized, copied, stolen and often abused without permission.
Why are furry artist the uppity bunch whom feel what happens to every thing else, shouldn't happen to them, and we must protect their ego.

All I'm saying is e621 shouldn't go around saying they are going to "respect the artists" and then allow their art to be edited by others and posted on here.
Sure its going to happen anyway, but the site is making a choice to not ban it, therefore they are advocating it.

I'm sorry, but I'm not okay with the "status quo"
Sure everyone else does it, are you okay with being a retard like everyone else?

I think it should be fine to edit art, it's adding your own artistic means to a piece, so long as you give the original artist credit for their part, I don't see any problem in customizing a picture to suit your taste.

Baracuda has a point.. It's really rude to take somone's art--someone's character and maybe even fursona--and change it just because you fap to it better that way. Ew. That's like surprising your wife a boobjob for christmas. It might go over well, but more likely she'll be insulted.

On the other hand, I've seen some really nice edits out there...

Right now, I think the best comprimise would be to only allow edits as long as they are CLEARLY labled on the image.

As in, text that says:

Edit by SnowWolf (2010)
Original Image by demicoeur (2009)
Characters (c) Spotycat and demispotz
Original image found at http://www.e621.net/post/show/80434 and http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4035285[/quote]

maybe also a special tag for 'fixed' images?

baracudaboy said:
blah-blah-blah

Any art piece not on a physical media (excluding digital storage devices) is pure information. This information does not belong to anybody and thus can be copied, edited and/or preserved as anyone sees fit. This is how it is from a moral standpoint.

Now, you could say that some of those alterations/copies are against the law. But then the whole conflict goes from morality to legislation. And i know for sure that parodies are immune to legal persecution in this case. And 90% of alterations are parodies. The rest, i am sure, do not break the law as well.

Sorry, but you loose on both fronts. No matter what card you play - morality or law - you are wrong. Thus, your argument is invalid and your lack of sense is noted.

SnowWolf said:
...

Right now, I think the best comprimise would be to only allow edits as long as they are CLEARLY labled on the image.

As in, text that says:

maybe also a special tag for 'fixed' images?

Thats what the "parent" function is for. Learn it.

cookiekangaroo said:
...so long as you give the original artist credit for their part...

This is a law of courtesy. The question is whether it will be enforced.

We need to protect the artist's right to never grow up and get over themselves.

Hat said:
We need to protect the artist's right to never grow up and get over themselves.

+1

tempted to post a slew of really silly edits now

Ghosti - you're totally missing the freakin' point. Lemme edit this down for you:

...why [do] so many artists loathe this site so much? Because we take their work without asking and THEN we edit it. ... If e621 [wants to be] more friendly and caring to the artists who get posted here then it seems like [restricting 'fixing' of images is] a step in the right direction.

This, as you can clearly see, has nothing to do with anythign from a legal standpoint. This is about e621 not being a douche and saying things like "Your art doesn't belong to you and thus can be copied, edited or preserved as we see fit." This is the sort of idea that has artists getting "butthurt" and getting artwork taken down, or getting themselves put on the DNP list... This is how an art site gains a bad reputation.

This whole post is not about the legality. It's about morality.

And i know for sure that parodies are immune to legal persecution in this case. And 90% of alterations are parodies.

"I removed the penis because this is hotter as a female, not a herm"
"I covered up the extra nipples because they're weird."
"I cut out the character's huge hair because it's cuter with short hair"
"I edited out the vagina"
"I decensored this art so that everyone could enjoy!"

These are what I see, when we "fix" images. These are not parodies.

Also, as an artist... fuck you, dude :p This opinion you have of "if it's posted on the internet, I can rape it however I want' is why we slap HUGE watermarks on images, and why we throw a fit when someone reposts them. Do you know how often a 'good' artist's work is reposted by people who say "I totally drew this" or "This is my character. Even though the artist has no idea who I am. But I did color the fur differently so it better suited my purposes. Ain't it cool?" or "I found this and recolored the eyes to look like me, lol idk who drew it though i can't find it. lol arn't I hot?"

Thats what the "parent" function is for. Learn it.

Yes, because the parent function clearly denotes where an image came from if someone saves the image and reposts it somewhere else. I forgot how awesome the internet was.

Let me sum up this thread.

Whine whine, artist's rights, whine whine autism whine

Who cares. It's just porn.

Thank you SnowWolf, you put it in better terms.

Also, I know people will probably say I'm just butthurt someone did it to my art, but I don't draw, the angle I'm coming from is one in high concern about e621 itself.

I personally really really REALLY like this site, it helps me find furry images a lot better then FA does and when I search here I know at least 90% of the stuff posted is going to be high quality art. I am not speaking for subject matter here, but quality of drawing, shading and everything like that.

I just really don't think a site like this that WANTS the artists public opinion of them to get better will ever succeed in that goal when they allow their contributers to submit vandalized pieces of artwork without even the artists consent.
I know that seems like a harsh word, but thats exactly what it is. Its like putting graffiti on strangers house. They didn't ask for it, you didn't get the okay...

Sure you can ask the artist later, but thats like editing a picture of someones face, posting it and then being like "OH, SORRY, ITS BEEN SPREAD AROUND THE INTERNET FOR ABOUT A WEEK NOW BUT I'LL TAKE IT DOWN IF YOU REALLLLLYY WANT ME TO"

If e621 wants respect they will preserve each art piece as it was intended to be shown by the artist himself, not allow it to be twisted and defaced without any permission or notice to the artist themselves. :(

FurZ said:
Let me sum up this thread.

Whine whine, artist's rights, whine whine autism whine

Who cares. It's just porn.

And then e621 will go down as a trashy nonprofessional site that doesn't care about peoples rights, rules, or respect for artists, which then will probably be downed again by some stupid furry claiming legal action.
but i guess if you're okay with that...

here's the thing, no one is actually profiting from these edits except for the people fapping, so why so butthurt?

and i'll leave you with this

http://blog.iso50.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/jim_jarmusch-450x549.jpg

NOU said:
here's the thing, no one is actually profiting from these edits except for the people fapping, so why so butthurt?

and i'll leave you with this

http://blog.iso50.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/jim_jarmusch-450x549.jpg

Did you not read? Because if this kind of thing continues someone will just get the site shut down again and artists won't stop hating e621. Do you really want e621 to exist as a loathed trashy website that even furries don't respect with ramped art vandalism?

not being respected by furries (one of the least respected fetishes around) isn't that bad. also, there's nothing that can legally be done to shut down e6 via edits.

SnowWolf said:
"Your art doesn't belong to you and thus can be copied, edited or preserved as we see fit."

The physical medium belongs to you. The thing that is drawn/written/etc. does not, because it is pure information. You cant buy or sell information, you cant own it, but you can sell its representation (painting, print etc), or services of information delivery, but not information itself. You can also sell the services of information creation.

SnowWolf said:
whine whine whine...
This is how an art site gains a bad reputation.
*whines some more*

In this situation the system that is e621 is either morally right (by allowing edits and thus freedom of speech/art whatever) or an artist's bitch, listening to their every whine. Now i personally would prefer e621 make a right decision and dont give a damn about your whingh.

SnowWolf said:
This whole post is not about the legality. It's about morality.

Its not. Its about what YOU and others like you want.

SnowWolf said:
"I removed the penis because this is hotter as a female, not a herm"
"I covered up the extra nipples because they're weird."
"I cut out the character's huge hair because it's cuter with short hair"
"I edited out the vagina"
"I decensored this art so that everyone could enjoy!"

Non-commercial edits where the "fixers" dont take any kind of credit or profit from their works. I am 100% sure it is morally agreeable and "a-ok" legally.

SnowWolf said:
Also, as an artist...

I am a starting writer. 50% of my works (mostly best ones) is open to public. Now i dont really care if it gets edited, copied, etc. I do this for no monetary reward (yet^_^) and would be flattered if someone will repost my work or even edit it. Why? Because
1) When i posted my message i knew that its wild-wild-net out there and anyone can do... well, anything. So instead of whining i just dont care as long as i am credited for my work.
2) It is possible that these edits will give me new perspective on my work and thus will help me better myself.

SnowWolf said:
Do you know how often a 'good' artist's work is reposted by people who say "I totally drew this" or "This is my character. Even though the artist has no idea who I am. But I did color the fur differently so it better suited my purposes. Ain't it cool?" or "I found this and recolored the eyes to look like me, lol idk who drew it though i can't find it. lol arn't I hot?"

When people take credit for your work its completely different issue.
Little edits to show off their own characters are completely normal.

Let me give you an example: if i take Mona Liza from the internet and print it out on my laserJet, and claim i made this, it would be theft.
But if i take a palette and redraw it with insane coulours (green alien zombie Mona Liza) that would be my work completely. Thats a recolour, but i used another image. Its not theft - i remade it. Mona liza image is public property, because noone can clain the picture itself, only the physical medium its on (canvas).

I probably didnt explain it very good but i hope you get the picture.

SnowWolf said:
Yes, because the parent function clearly denotes where an image came from if someone saves the image and reposts it somewhere else. I forgot how awesome the internet was.

Lol. Use your head:)

I am tired of answering to you guys trolling. I am off to bed. cya.

baracudaboy said:
Did you not read? Because if this kind of thing continues someone will just get the site shut down again and artists won't stop hating e621. Do you really want e621 to exist as a loathed trashy website that even furries don't respect with ramped art vandalism?

e621 is a non-commercial FURRY porn imageboard. It will never be "loved" by anyone except its users and a few select artists that are grown up enough to understand trhe rules of the information age.
And you cant please everyone. e621, in my opinion, has to draw the line where it stops being a bitch of artists and becomes an imageboard.

NOU said:
not being respected by furries (one of the least respected fetishes around) isn't that bad. also, there's nothing that can legally be done to shut down e6 via edits.

+1

g'night :o

nite, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I didn't read most of this because I am totally shitfaced right now. But as an artist who allows non commercial derivatives of his work, I get total chubby when people repost my work with changes/color/etc. Nothing in the world is more flattering.

That being said, I have given permission to do such by labeling my work with Creative Commons BY-NC-SA. If you do not have permission to edit an illustration, I suggest getting such permission first. We're trying like hell to get artists on here of their own free will. Posting edits of their art and potentially pissing them off isn't something we're striving for.

CrazyHusky is a good editor of other people's work (coloring black-and-white art for example)

Maybe you could ask him how he gets permissions and go-ahead's from artists?

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/crazy-husky/

I am a starting writer. 50% of my works (mostly best ones) is open to public. Now i dont really care if it gets edited, copied, etc. I do this for no monetary reward (yet^_^) and would be flattered if someone will repost my work or even edit it.

Okay, so.. let's pretend that you write a sweet, heartfelt romantic story piece for your significant other. Let's say, your wife. You pour your heart out on it and she adores it, and encourages you to post it, because she feels it it's your best pieces of work yet and wants the world to see it. You agree and post it.

2 weeks later, a friend comes to you and shows you a few links, One person edited a few grammar errors... someone else, though, decided to change your wife's bunny fursona into a dragon, and decided to make her a fat, cock hungry herm who spends the whole story whimpering for more of your now-mysteriously 30 inch cock, until you ultimatly unload into her and inflate her like a cum balloon.... where as in the original, there was some hot, but ultimatly sweet sex, a bit of gentle banter, and at the end, you fell asleep in eachother's arms...

And this OTHER link ends up being a hard vore piece at the end. and this OTHER one has the girl in the story being a man, and a prostitute at that that the male had bought for an hour off a street corner.

THAT is kind of (kind of!) what's goin on here.

Some people draw random charcters, some draw other people's character's.. but a lot of artists draw themselves, or their mate. or their friends. and it's... disturbing to see someone randomly edit off a cock or something just for their own pleasure.

Its not. Its about what YOU and others like you want.

I like how you refer to me as if I, and my opinion was somehow a dark dirty thing. As if. somehow, by being an artist and not wanting my works manipulated and altered *without regard for my opinion on the matter* somehow makes me evil and villianous.

Little edits to show off their own characters are completely normal.

No, it's rude. Ask, at least, if you're going to be posting it where others can see it.

In ANY regard..

In this situation the system that is e621 is either morally right (by allowing edits and thus freedom of speech/art whatever) or an artist's bitch, listening to their every whine. Now i personally would prefer e621 make a right decision and dont give a damn about your whingh.

e621 is a non-commercial FURRY porn imageboard. It will never be "loved" by anyone except its users and a few select artists that are grown up enough to understand trhe rules of the information age.
And you cant please everyone. e621, in my opinion, has to draw the line where it stops being a bitch of artists and becomes an imageboard.

Well.. let's see what varka has to say, okay?

Varka @ http://www.e621.net/forum/show/8456 said:

...Secondly - the new policy. e621, in my opinion, suffered considerably due to its less-than-amicable attitude towards artists requesting their work to be taken down from the site - and because of a general lack of respect to artists and their wishes (who, realistically, are the foundation of the furry art community).

as a result, I'm implementing a newer, more artist-friendly takedown policy which will hopefully provide less of a barrier for artists who wish to have their artwork taken down (as DMCA notifications are a pain in the ass to write - as well as respond to, because they're so often incorrectly used).

...

Thirdly - next steps. The biggest thing I wish to improve with e621 is artist involvement; there are many things which can be done which will turn a previously negative outlook ('Who uploaded my art to e621? I want it removed') into a positive one - where artists are correctly attributed for their work, retain control over their work on the site.

...

While small, I feel these changes can have a massive positive effect on the entire community without significantly impacting it for those browsing and viewing art, and by allowing artists to voluntarily post their own work and have suitable controls over them, could draw even more content to the site.

It would sure seem that Varka wants the website to be friendly to artists, as opposed to flipping off the artistic masses and going "Fuck you all BITCHES, this is a IMAGEBOARD on the INTERNET!!" like you seem to want. Admitedly, I may be misunderstanding his posts, certainly...

SnowWolf said:
Okay, so.. let's pretend .... THAT is kind of (kind of!) what's goin on here.

While you may be trying to make a point, most edits are not that extreme. Yes the occasional dick is edited out and replaced with a vagina, but most edits are very minor and only change one small element. To use your "example", for his love story to his wife, most e621.net edits are the other person editing his wife's hair color - or editing out those extra bunnie breasts she has going down her belly.

But these sensitive furry artist are going to have to learn the basic rule as learned by ever other artist/musician's that has come before them, if you don't want people editing your work, then show nobody. Once its released into the wild - you must accept anything that happens to it as long as somebody else does not profit from said copy/edit/modification.

Honestly, the take down rule should also plainly state; if your artwork can be publicly found on a public site such as FA or another image board (which the artist posts his/her work), then e621.net has every right to re post that art here. Only images that are found on pay sites or other walls that are not open to the public of course can follow the takedown/DNP policy.

On a 2nd note; all edits should clearly be tagged as a child post with the original parent post (if the original does reside on e621.net) and people whom violate/ignore this rule get a short vacation as determined by a mod.

Yes, you are correct in that Murmullos. That's why I said kind of. :) But the point I was reaching towards was the alteration of something near to you into something it isn't, as it is in the case where you remove a herm's extra parts, or carefully recolor someone's fur. Changing a few words in a story might even be missed if your'e reading quickly and are familiar with the source, but an image is an instant visceral thing. You see the whole image at once. So a change like that lasts for the whole duration of your impression...

So, maybe I'd have been better off suggesting the change of his wife to a male instead, but--*shrugs* what's posted is posted.

In any regard, you're still missing the point that varka, by my perception, wants e621 to be a friendly place to artists... and if that means, I'd assume, catering to a few "sensitive artists" then I think that's great... I'd rather ArtistB be happy and not mind his porn being posted here, then have him get in a snit fit and try to raise hell about it. Or have we already forgotten what a singled disgruntled person can do?

NOU said:
nite, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

oh i guess i should have quoted, just thought people would pay attention. my mistake, here let me fix what i meant to say.

Ghosti said:
I am off to bed. cya.

g'night :o

unless you were talking to him too, if so disregard this.

I personally don't mind my own or anyone else's furry porn getting edited if it's done well and it keeps the original feel of the art. I think what makes the difference is that this is porn, and I believe there's no harm in making a particular image accessible to different tastes.

I've posted some edits myself. However I don't plan on doing any more. Lately I've decided that this kind of thing should not be done simply to avoid whatever drama that might come along with it. I've realized that this is a touchy subject, so going forward I will only post edits with the artist's permission.

If artists have a problem, they have a problem. They wouldn't have posted their shit if they didn't want it to happen. Quit whiteknighting and get back to fapping.

/thread
/requestlock

What the fuck is wrong with you people? Meh, better here then some poor image I guess.

First off, Snow's right, alterations are illegal, however on the same token, every image you see of pikachu, or renamon, or whatever, that is not drawn by the pokemon company or bandai, is also illegal, the artist broke the law drawing it. IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THE FAIR USE ACT. And don't even try to tell me you asked, They don't give out permissions for things like this.

So now we got a bit of double standards flowing around, but meh, remember, you are all furries, double standards happen. I really don't like seeing the edits, but whatever, it happens. however, fucking give the artist credit for stealing his shit, don't be a dick. Just do it... at least until someone up there decides to change the rules to disallow these things.

So yeah, what this all boils down to is people whining.. always wanting more. Meh, see this is what happens when you try to be fair.

is this why we can't have nice things?

SnowWolf said:

2 weeks later, a friend comes to you and shows you a few links, One person edited a few grammar errors... someone else, though, decided to change your wife's bunny fursona into a dragon, and decided to make her a fat, cock hungry herm who spends the whole story whimpering for more of your now-mysteriously 30 inch cock

...

And this OTHER link ends up being a hard vore piece at the end. and this OTHER one has the girl in the story being a man, and a prostitute at that that the male had bought for an hour off a street corner.

Ummm... and i should care... why exactly?
In this situation i made something and then showed it to people i care in a way i meant it to be. Then i posted it on the net and others saw it.
Now, noone can change what i have online, because i posted it on my site/myspace/facebook page/livejournal/etc and noone except me can edit my page. So the original i did is still there. I could care less for people who change the story in a way i cant benefit from it (correcting grammar mistakes in my work for example). Its their buisness. I cant control what everyone is doing in the worlds with my work, nor would i want to, unless they are trying to profit from it.

There is only 3 situations where i will be uneasy with my works being reposted/edited:
1) Someone does not edit my work or makes only little edits and claims it to be his original work and/or does not credit me. Thats theft, and i would probably be pissed about it.
2) Someone edits the work a LOT (in an obscene way) AND says this is my original work (gives me credit for stuff i did not write). This distorts my image, and i dont like it.
3) Someone profits or tries to profit from my work without asking my permission. Bad, bad theft.
Pirationg my work (if i try to profit from it) is somewhat in a grey area. I think that it is a service that must be paid for, not the information. So a story itself should not be sold, but instead, for me writing the story i should get some sort of a monetary reward (+ variations. A book cost actually = artists fee+ distributor fee+ physical medium cost. And if the book is distributed electronically it should be artists_fee+ distribution_cost)

Other than that i could (and other writers, artists etc should) care less what happens to my work. Why? Because i posted it publically on the internet. After that, the information itself becomes public property and thus cannot be controlled in any way.
+ to control such a thing youll need to spend half of your life on it (more or less, dependint on your popularity). Its just not worth it. Ever.

Aurali said:

however, fucking give the artist credit for stealing his shit, don't be a dick. Just do it...

This.
Its common courtesy, but i think stuff like that should be added to the rules. After all, its not that hard to write something like "(c)someone" or "based on the work or %username%"

luvdaporn said:
g'night :o

NOU said:
nite, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Thank you:)

Ghosti said:
words

that's your personal criteria. we're talking about furry porn drawers bawwing at edits.

NOU said:
that's your personal criteria. we're talking about furry porn drawers bawwing at edits.

I described my point of view at how this situation has to be handled. By everyone, including "furry porn drawers bawwing at edits".

your second sentence is incomplete, so i don't know what you mean, but your first sentence is wrong. you meant should be not has to be, since it's still your personal opinion.

NOU said:
your second sentence is incomplete, so i don't know what you mean, but your first sentence is wrong. you meant should be not has to be, since it's still your personal opinion.

Second sentence is complete. i dont understand whats so wrong with it.
Thx for the first one:)

subject-verb, it's missing half of it

NOU said:
subject-verb, it's missing half of it

Ghosti said:
I described my point of view at how this situation has to be handled by everyone, including "furry porn drawers bawwing at edits".

Better?

baracudaboy said:
Sure its going to happen anyway, but the site is making a choice to not ban it, therefore they are advocating it.

And if the artist cares enough, they'll request that the edit and/or the original image(s) are taken down. If the images aren't taken down, the artist can then choose to either A: Live with it and go on, or B: If they're THAT protective of their art, they'll threaten a lawsuit and it'll probably get taken down to save the site.

B is a rare occasion, but when it happens, it's more than likely going to work. There's really no point in whining about modified works. Even I've accepted that maybe sometime my work might be modified. If it is, then big whoop. But then, not ever artist has a thick skin, I guess, so... *shrug*

RlctntFr said:
I personally don't mind my own or anyone else's furry porn getting edited if it's done well and it keeps the original feel of the art. I think what makes the difference is that this is porn, and I believe there's no harm in making a particular image accessible to different tastes.

I've posted some edits myself. However I don't plan on doing any more. Lately I've decided that this kind of thing should not be done simply to avoid whatever drama that might come along with it. I've realized that this is a touchy subject, so going forward I will only post edits with the artist's permission.

See, if everyone got permission from the artist first I wouldn't have felt the need to make this thread. Its totally fine to do whatever you want to an image if the artist is okay with it, but what I see on here a lot is "this would be better with a dick" and then someone randomly edits in a dick, they don't ask, they just do it and post it.
You gotta ask, thats the point I'm trying to drive home ;_;

Burninghart said:
And if the artist cares enough, they'll request that the edit and/or the original image(s) are taken down. If the images aren't taken down, the artist can then choose to either A: Live with it and go on, or B: If they're THAT protective of their art, they'll threaten a lawsuit and it'll probably get taken down to save the site.

If they are that upset about an edit, follow the rules for a takedown... sheesh people.

NOU said:
is this why we can't have nice things?

Yes, this is exactly why you can't have nice things.

ITT:
A damn good argument that makes me rethink my stance on the subject.

Fuck all ya'll. Making me reanalyze my opinions...
Bah.

Anyway, a lot of folks on other sites dislike E621 for whatever reasons; we certainly don't need any more fuel for their fire. And our habit of editing pictures is definitely fuel.
Which is a shame seeing as how a lot of these edits are for the better, not to mention the fact that this is the only site that actually has a section of the userbase that is willing and capable of creating these edits.

mosh_grizzly said:
ITT:
A damn good argument that makes me rethink my stance on the subject.

Fuck all ya'll. Making me reanalyze my opinions...
Bah.

Anyway, a lot of folks on other sites dislike E621 for whatever reasons; we certainly don't need any more fuel for their fire. And our habit of editing pictures is definitely fuel.
Which is a shame seeing as how a lot of these edits are for the better, not to mention the fact that this is the only site that actually has a section of the userbase that is willing and capable of creating these edits.

like aurali said, if they got a problem, they can request it to be taken off. f they got a problem with what is basically an image host site, they got bigger fish to fry than e621