Aliasing cat_girl -> cat_ears.

Reason: Same reason why we don't use vixen, mare, etc, no gender specifics!

http://e621.net/forum/show/14568 :P

I've already made up my mind about this. A direct alias is not the best course of action... the best course of action with what we have right now are implications, which have already been set up.

Riversyde said:
I've already made up my mind about this. A direct alias is not the best course of action... the best course of action with what we have right now are implications, which have already been set up.

this isn't danbooru, this isn't even danbooru's code anymore... fuck it ain't even arcturus's flavor of danbooru with the amount of editing done to it in the past month.

We don't follow danbooru's standards.

Aurali said:
We don't follow danbooru's standards.

Would you care to explain why? Many of the tagging issues experienced on e621 have been resolved long ago on Danbooru, I'm happy to hear the reasoning behind your alternate solutions.

I prefer the best solutions, but it sounds like more of a /wrists thing to me... just sayin' (our tags need to be edgy and alternative!).

Danbooru is a bit of a nightmare when you're trying to find specific pictures. They removed a lot of descriptive tags just to keep their tag count down, which seems to defeat the purpose of tags in the first place.

Shatari said:
Danbooru is a bit of a nightmare when you're trying to find specific pictures. They removed a lot of descriptive tags just to keep their tag count down, which seems to defeat the purpose of tags in the first place.

Yeah that's true, although the whole place has been slowly dying due to egotistical administration. Their "3 days without approval = DELETE!" is the most stupid thing ever.

But the tags that they do use are *very* well used, many of the tags on e621 are almost worthless due to duplication, lack of use, hybridization, subjectivity and conflicting implications.

Ideally the e621 community needs to go through every single tag and evaluate their usefulness case by case with the intention of only keeping the "best" tags.

Flat tagging is just too primitive to be of any use with a large tagging vocabulary.

Kitsu~ said:
I prefer the best solutions, but it sounds like more of a /wrists thing to me... just sayin' (our tags need to be edgy and alternative!).

Because it doesn't really work with our needs, besides by going by danbooru standards would require redoing the entire database..

Aurali said:
Because it doesn't really work with our needs, besides by going by danbooru standards would require redoing the entire database..

I agree to a certain extent, as some tags commonly used on e621 are completely irrelevant on Danbooru (especially species tags and such).

But the usefulness of many tags are not affected by e621's difference content, typically, these ones cause the most conflict due to people being used to it and seeing no reason why it needs to be something else.

Personally, I think that implications are destroying e621's tagging vocabulary, they seem to have been abused.

See the renamon tag for example:
renamon -> digimon, fox -> canine

These "tag explosions" make maintaining attached tags on posts significantly more difficult, as removing *any* implied tag is completely futile, as well as there being more tags to scan through to check for validity.

Much of the implications were designed around a much more primitive assumption of the search feature's functionality. In fact, I would go as far to say that if you are creating implications with the intention of "making searching easier" you are almost always making things worse.

Tags shouldn't be attached based solely on the content of the post, it should be about the usefulness of the tag "would someone who searched for TAG find this post applicable?" with secondary consideration to blacklists.

To put this back on topic...

cat_ears is a perfect example of when NOT to use Danbooru's tags, it works fine there, as they almost only deal with humans or near-humans. Whereas on e621 it's right across the entire spectrum, so it's stupid to use a tag that is specifically for a subset of the furry spectrum without the tag's name implying it. RAMPANT MISUSE!

Kitsu~ said:
I agree to a certain extent, as some tags commonly used on e621 are completely irrelevant on Danbooru (especially species tags and such).

But the usefulness of many tags are not affected by e621's difference content, typically, these ones cause the most conflict due to people being used to it and seeing no reason why it needs to be something else.

Personally, I think that implications are destroying e621's tagging vocabulary, they seem to have been abused.

See the renamon tag for example:
renamon -> digimon, fox -> canine

These "tag explosions" make maintaining attached tags on posts significantly more difficult, as removing *any* implied tag is completely futile, as well as there being more tags to scan through to check for validity.

Much of the implications were designed around a much more primitive assumption of the search feature's functionality. In fact, I would go as far to say that if you are creating implications with the intention of "making searching easier" you are almost always making things worse.

Tags shouldn't be attached based solely on the content of the post, it should be about the usefulness of the tag "would someone who searched for TAG find this post applicable?" with secondary consideration to blacklists.

and yes, I'm aware that some of the things I just said were slightly hypocritical

To put this back on topic...

cat_ears is a perfect example of when NOT to use Danbooru's tags, it works fine there, as they almost only deal with humans or near-humans. Whereas on e621 it's right across the entire spectrum, so it's stupid to use a tag that is specifically for a subset of the furry spectrum without the tag's name implying it. RAMPANT MISUSE!

I think you just beat your own argument :3 (I'm also one for changing canine to canid.. but that's just me.)

Implications are there to fill in the gaps. like for example. your renamon image... someone might put renamon and not put digimon... I've personally searched digimon before. Also, my Vixen example earlier.. if you put vixen, and not female.. then you are just wasting time and effort.. I agree with you entirely though kitsu, now the fox to canine example is a broken, but this is an evolving system. Implications have their use, and we have to sift through them all to find out the good ones.

Oh trust me when I say I know all about e621's search functionality.. it still gives me headaches.

Cat_ears is horrible, it doesn't make any sense in our climate. and honestly using some sort of "neko_person" tag would be our best bet when dealing with protohumans.

Finally, I still invite all of you to challenge current tags, I'll probably say "That's dumb" but I still want you to. e621 is like the English language, growing, building.. it's not dead. it's alive and evolving. let's push it in the right direction now :3

by jove, you've GOT IT! "Cat_person"

Also.. renamon implying fox is stupid. if you want to look at renamon, you'll search renamon. If you want fox, you'll search fox. renamon is not a fox. who's about as fox-like as, say, a wolf, or a dog

SnowWolf said:
by jove, you've GOT IT! "Cat_person"

I thought of that too, but I thought it wouldn't work well because it seems to imply that the characteristics are genetic, which is not a requirement.

Aurali said:
I think you just beat your own argument :3

This is kind of the reason I would never want to run e621, I often change my mind about things as I think about them more. For most things, I can never arrive at a solution I am truly happy with. I grew to dislike many suggestions I have made about e621, particularly the ones that weren't rejected.

I'm significantly more happy with nekomimi over catgirl/catboy, cat_ears, and have had this opinion for some time.

I was going to mention compatibility with the kemonomimi_mode tag, but seeing as all but one post that has this tag was uploaded by me, it's probably too irrelevant to be relevant.

Kitsu~ said:
I thought of that too, but I thought it wouldn't work well because it seems to imply that the characteristics are genetic, which is not a requirement.

Not really, IMO...

I'm significantly more happy with nekomimi over catgirl/catboy, cat_ears, and have had this opinion for some time.

No. nekomimi is bad. Neko is "catn" "mimi" is "ears". so.. nekomimi is, really, just 'cat ears', with a "cool" japanese wrapper. Plus, then it opens up precedent: inumimi, kitsunemimi, butamimi, nezumimimi, umamimi? and so forth. is it lion_ears? raionmimi, or lionmimi?

It's just a bad idea. Kemonomimi, by the way, is 'beast_ears'.. :)

better to use cat_ears and animal_ears, IMHO.

I was going to mention compatibility with the kemonomimi_mode tag, but seeing as all but one post that has this tag was uploaded by me, it's probably too irrelevant to be relevant.

*goes to danbooru* yeah, probably. That might be better for a 'cross species' or 'species transform' tag...

SnowWolf said:
Not really, IMO...

No. nekomimi is bad. Neko is "catn" "mimi" is "ears". so.. nekomimi is, really, just 'cat ears', with a "cool" japanese wrapper. Plus, then it opens up precedent: inumimi, kitsunemimi, butamimi, nezumimimi, umamimi? and so forth. is it lion_ears? raionmimi, or lionmimi?

It's just a bad idea. Kemonomimi, by the way, is 'beast_ears'.. :)

better to use cat_ears and animal_ears, IMHO.

I'm well aware of what the literal translation is, but if you googled the term you would see significant usage of the term in respect to a human/mostly-human with slight animal physical properties, most commonly, ears.

*goes to danbooru* yeah, probably. That might be better for a 'cross species' or 'species transform' tag...

Actually, it's a separate concept to transformation, kemonomimi_mode can only be applied to characters who are not kemonomimi but are depicted as such (usually which animal is related to the character's personality in some way), post #63430 is a good example.