Here's the question, simple and short: What's the best way to deal with hybrids?

Now for the exposition, since there are probably a lot of issues with this.

We have a "hybrid" tag. Should this be a "species" tag? I don't know.

Now for the two posts that brought this issue to my attention, and I'm sure there are a lot more related to it.

post #147083

While it's immediately obvious this isn't just a deer (the long fluffy tail and canine ears) it's not really apparent that this is a deer-wolf cross. Just saying, from TWYS, although I think it's well-known that's what Kaia is.

This image is tagged with "hybrid", "canine", "cervine", "deer", and "wolf".

Now we have this image:

post #157813

Ignoring the lynx, Stephanie, we have those same tags, and another one -- "wolfdeer" (which is not classified as a species tag, but should be if it's to be allowed at all).

Here are the issues I see:

1) Kaia is neither a wolf or a deer, so it doesn't seem proper to me to include those tags in images for her.

2) Do we need separate tags for every hybrid?

3) If the answer to "2" is "yes" then this at least partially validates "1". If "no" then we probably need those tags.

4) If the answer to "2" is yes, then we need a consistent tag-naming procedure for hybrid tags. I suggest that Kaia is not a "wolfdeer", but is a "deer-wolf". The hyphen immediately draws attention to the fact that this is a hybrid, and the species that are hybridized are in alphebetical order.

5) This isn't just about Kaia and images in which she appears. There are, as of this moment, 4682 images on this site which are tagged "hybrid".

Wouldn't hybrid be describing an animal that has a fusion between two or more animals combined together?

Of course, and it shouldn't be a species tag, the way I think of it, is that, it is more describing instead of classifying what species it is. And it is surprising that you didn't mention, "kemonomimis": humans with animal-like features which is much more of a definition of an anthropomorphic human/animal kind of way, wouldn't consider that as a hybrid?

Example: post #263609

Now, I can't back up much about between "classifying" and "describing" since general tags are more like delineating the image, and the rest are like classifying. I may confuse the meaning of the color tags but hey that's the way I think about it.

And also I would like to know of what your thought is about general tags, are they like describing the image or classifying it?

If I misunderstand, then probably I didn't think through yet again.

Good points, Keats. So, on second thought, I'll say that "hybrid" should not be a species tag, seeing that it applies to every single hybrid in existence. It is, as you said, pointing out something that is much more general, since "hybrid" can even apply to automobiles.

I didn't mention kemonomimi or any of the other "hybrid" species since this thread was actually meant to point out the greater issue, which is hybrids in general. Until there's a solid policy for dealing with hybrids, that's going to be applied across-the-board, I don't see a point in doing any in-depth research as to what we actually have on this site. It could turn out to be a moot question if the administration judges that everything is just fine as it is.

The distinction between "description" and "classification" is blurred, at best. Classification "describes" relationships between objects, and a "relationship" can, itself, be interpreted as an "object" in the abstract sense.

On this site I think general tags are doing both, although pools are best used to group images based upon established similarities and relationships (such as explicitly being part of a series of related images).

RedRaven said:
On this site I think general tags are doing both, although pools are best used to group images based upon established similarities and relationships (such as explicitly being part of a series of related images).

So now I am thinking, if there's a hybrid here on Earth that has a fusion between two or more animals, would we classify it? Name it? Give it its own species name? So maybe the hybrid tag could be probably be a species tag, now would it?

Many real life hybrids do have distinct recognized names: liger (lion-tiger, in which the lion was the father), tigon (tiger-lion, in which the father was a tiger), mule (donkey-horse), and others.

For the purposes of this site, such names should be species tags in my opinion. As for whether or not any given hybrid character should have such a tag, well, I certainly wouldn't mind it. I'm sure that my feelings, though, will represent a minority opinion, since this would result in tag bloat, with many tags just being used with one single character, and possibly with one single image.

If they're officially allowed at all, though, whether or not any given tag would be allowed should probably be a function of how many images need to be tagged with it, and I have no idea at all what the cut-off should be. We already have tags with only one or two instances on this site, so that sets a precedent for allowing single-image tags, but I really doubt that this is a good thing in the long run.

Alright, so what needs to be done?

I mean the way we handle hybrids thus far has been to tag the species included then add hybrid if there is a hybrid

Certain species (such as ligers) are so very distinct and established that they can be implicated to their respective species, but those species are far and few, maybe even limited to just a handful

Example: We know that Zig-Zag is a skunk-tiger hybrid. Rather than tagging her "skunk" and "tiger" we would create the species tag "skunk-tiger" and implicate that to "hybrid". Indeed, it might even be advisable with such a well-known character to implicate "zig_zag" to "skunk-tiger" just to save a step in the tagging process.

This would, eventually, have to be applied to all hybrids in a similar manner. There are currently only 368 uses of "hybrid", so that's not exactly a monumental job, although probably one to be undertaken by someone without much of a life. I'm sure that many users, here, including myself, fall into that category.

The problem is that mere members would not be able to create the necessary tags or implications, so this would probably require the dedicated assistance of someone who can.

I think the best first step would be to simply create a list of the necessary hybrid tags, submit it to the person who will be creating them, and then wait until that's done before starting the tagging process one at a time. This way it could be done as a batch, perhaps even in one sitting.

I'm not sure what to do about hybrids such as ligers or mules. My first inclination is to alias these to the more descriptive hyphenated tags, just to maintain consistency. Someone searching for those will still get the correct images that way.

Well yes we could start tagging every hybrid as speciesone-speciestwo, but there can just be so many types that this might not be easier than just tagging both species then hybrid

I do however see your point; I'm not fond of hybrids so I'd like them to have an umbrella tag to be able to blacklist

However as it stands now, tagging the species mixed then tagging hybrid is just a more feasible option