Anonymous, a Janitor, tried to re-define the girly tag to include males and females. He did so by tagging girly on a single lesbian image he uploaded and adjusting the Wiki to include "and female." He did not fix tag aliases such as femboy, post on the forum about the wiki change, provide an alternative tag for girly male characters, or implement the tag on any other image but this one. Since he didn't bother to use the forum as he should, I'm posting this on the forum to ensure that the e621 community may decide on the issue and this fetish will remain accessible.

See the image, conversation, and tag history here: http://e621.net/post/show/130240/

Wow the way you've responded to this, you'd think he killed your dog. What a weird thing to be so overly passionate about.

Eclectric said:
Anonymous, a Janitor, tried to re-define the girly tag to include males and females. He did so by tagging girly on a single lesbian image he uploaded and adjusting the Wiki to include "and female." He did not fix tag aliases such as femboy, post on the forum about the wiki change, provide an alternative tag for girly male characters, or implement the tag on any other image but this one. Since he didn't bother to use the forum as he should, I'm posting this on the forum to ensure that the e621 community may decide on the issue and this fetish will remain accessible.

See the image, conversation, and tag history here: http://e621.net/post/show/130240/

it should include female
and here's a hint. when searching for girly, and only wanting males. search for
girly -female.

Aurali said:
it should include female
and here's a hint. when searching for girly, and only wanting males. search for
girly -female.

>implying that more than two or three female+girly+solo images will come up, or that any images with male and female will have "girly" females

(No seriously. Try searching female girly -male. It's hilarious. >_> )

this has kinda come up before: http://e621.net/forum/show/13086

I still like the idea of a girly/femboy tag and a prissy/frilly_girl/girly_girl tag.

girly is already a commonly well known tag for a girly boys. adding "girly" females to the tag is a 'new' idea, and most posts will have to be freshly tagged to suit this. So, they may as well be tagged with something unique and more easily searched, as with the tag unification, there will be no distinction between, a male with a prissied up female princess type, and a female with a girly boy..

TL;DR - men and women should be separate in this regard.

I don't think the average user looking for an overtly feminine girl is going to think to search "prissy."

To be completely honest I don't think I've had to use that word personally until this thread. Thanks a lot, Snow.

I'm leaning toward a gender-neutral "girly" tag, with "-female" and "-male" being used to isolate the sexes. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence and familiarity with the site should be able to use the search function to that effect.

The only reason I'm adverse to the "prissy" idea is that it's not of popular usage. Plus, to me "prissy girl" has a wholly different connotation from "girly girl."

you're welcome~ :)

-female and -male won't help. what if it's a girly boy with a female domming him, or a girly girl with a male? Maybe I lack a modicum of intelligence, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't get what I wanted using only -female or -male.

How about we ditch the prissy idea and complicate thing a bit further....

Right now, 99.9% of the girly tag is girly boys.

Let's take that 99.9% and retag them as 'girly_boy'. and the remaining .1% can be taged 'girly_girl'

I think the two ideas are different enough to make the two tags 'worth' having.

SnowWolf said:
you're welcome~ :)

-female and -male won't help. what if it's a girly boy with a female domming him, or a girly girl with a male? Maybe I lack a modicum of intelligence, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't get what I wanted using only -female or -male.

How about we ditch the prissy idea and complicate thing a bit further....

Right now, 99.9% of the girly tag is girly boys.

Let's take that 99.9% and retag them as 'girly_boy'. and the remaining .1% can be taged 'girly_girl'

I think the two ideas are different enough to make the two tags 'worth' having.

As much as everybody will argue about it possibly cluttering the tags, WE NEED THIS PLEASE. <_>

I have to agree wioth Snow here. Girly boys and girly girls are while similar enough of a different concept that they should be separate tags.

What a big fuss about a single edit.

And what an eagerness in trying to question the implicit tagging standards. Just like if what was in place so far had been built by dumd dumbs.

"Girly" has always been so far a logical replacement for "gay solo", which is an illogicality if you consider a sexual orientation can only be defined by the presence of at least 2 characters.

Now you can to replace this by a different standard which will take a while to be accepted, which will take a while before taggers and viewers realize "it is like that and not like before"...
But are you willing to tag every single concerned picture in order to apply the changes, as well as spend SEVERAL hours a week catching the stream of posts that will be tagged according to the previous standard ?

I used to act as a vigilant for these kinds of things, which has lead me to this tag edit count, and, combined with the time i spent looking for pics' artists, makes me feel like i wasted a good chunk of my life.

It is tiring trying to enforce some tagging standards, to keep illogicalities away, to remove all the goddamn "tagme"... especially when you see people keep trying to question your ways, especially when you see you are more and more alone in doing this tagging cleaning.

I'm fine with "girly_girl" and "girly_boy."

It kind of begs for "manly_man" and "manly_woman" tags, but that might be going too far...

It's too early for very much constructive thought on this matter, but I'm pretty fucking sure that girly does not = 'gay solo'..

See also: post #56950 post #111329 post #127162

as for manly* tags, there's some fair arguement, there, honestly. Though we DO already have a muscular_female tag, not that that is quite the same thing.

Girly, Adj. typically offensive;
1. Featuring minimally clothed or naked women, typically in pornography: girly magazines.
2. Weak, timid, or effeminate. Used of men.

n.;
1. displaying or featuring nude or scantily dressed women; a girly magazine.
2. suited to or designed to appeal to young women; 'a girly night out'.

One use male, three use female. Gotta love how a fandom can mess up a word's meaning so badly.

Girly men are men who are effeminate. Thus, they show off "girly" or 'girlish" qualities (can be replaced with female/feminine respectively). The picture at http://e621.net/post/show/133095/2011-acacia-anus-balls-blush-butt-fap-gay-girly-in is an excellent example of two girly, homosexual, men. Blink, here http://e621.net/post?tags=blink+tsampikos&commit=Search is an example of an effeminate, straight, male. Women can also be girly, aka feminine; http://e621.net/post/show/2501/2006-4-3-cat-dark-dr_comet-fan-feline-female-japan and http://e621.net/post/show/12718/blonde_hair-blue_eyes-blush-breasts-canine-female- would be examples, as would http://e621.net/post/index?tags=mikhaila mikhaila here, on the "almost looks like a girly boy but is female". side of the spectrum. (trying to use only site-based images can be annoying, especially trying to find a straight girly boy. Bah!).

That all said, unless something is done to let the community as a general whole know "hey, something's changing!" there will continue to be incorrect or empty tags because of misunderstanding- and laziness. The best thing would be to alias plain "girly" to "girly_boy" so that when someoen applies the "girly" tag to a feminine female, they can see "girly_boy? wait, that's wrong." and change it. Or someone later can notice the irregularity and fix it.

In short, change is better than stagnating on a point that's incorrect, even if it takes effort.

SnowWolf said:
I'm pretty fucking sure that girly does not = 'gay solo'

This is not what i meant.

There was (and there still is) tons of people complaining and/or insisting that a given solo character is gay, because he is girly, or acts as such, and the "girly" tag was a perfect alternative for them to find what they wanted.

See the comments in post #71834, it's the perfect example of what i'm talking about.

In that example it IS perfectly reasonable to label it as gay, -because the character in question is gay-. Now, trying to argue that Blink, for example, is gay just because he got into a little autofellatio- that's wrong. He's a girly(feminine) boy, but he's definitely straight (as the examples given above illustrate).

Kald said:
This is not what i meant.

There was (and there still is) tons of people complaining and/or insisting that a given solo character is gay, because he is girly, or acts as such, and the "girly" tag was a perfect alternative for them to find what they wanted.

See the comments in post #71834, it's the perfect example of what i'm talking about.

Dude. Look at the tags, seriously.

It'd be so incredibly easy to do.

Just alias Girly to Girly_guy and then do a tag search for girly_guy +female just in case any of the images actually had a female(lol 5% chance anybody?) and fix those.

Then we still have the tag for girly dudes, but we also have a tag for girly females.

Everybody wins and it's practically no effort, given that nobody goes tag vandalizing just to make it a pain.

Blimey. I feel like a right puppy-kicking Hitler felcher now. I should probably have done some more checking but I'm not sure I'd have *tagged* any differently. Commentary though, yes, I fucked up. I overreacted to your slightly "RTFwiki" comment, for which I am sorry.

I think you're being overly prescriptive with the whole due process thing. e621 doesn't really have such a thing, and it probably shouldn't. Also, in my experience, tagging tends to work best and most naturally if everybody just pitches in and tags as they see fit to the extent that it affects them personally. Consensus emerges anyway most of the time, through that whole wisdom of crowds thing.

Anyway, OK. Discussion and such. I'd've thought it was obvious and common usage; girly for both boys and girls meaning the conventional and outdated frilly pink girly stereotype. Contrast tomboy or boyish maybe. IMO you have girly/feminine/womanly/effeminate vs. boyish/tomboy/masculine/manly/butch for the just-descriptions, and maybe girly_girl / manly_man / girly_boy for the more fetishy side, less symmetrically (the term manly_woman isn't really a thing). The repetition and contrast and inversion appeal to me, but I'd be too worried I'm inadvertently insulting someone.

More tags allow for more nuance, and related concepts can be documented. "h4. See Also" is your friend. As to number, I really don't mind if there's one tag used for an idea or fetish or whatever or if it's expressed as a combination. I prefer refining through combinations.

"Girly" as a replacement for "gay solo" *really* strikes me as a great big overreaching mis-tag. What about the nice gentlemen in the leather? Still, neither are really my end of things :D

One caveat. It's probably best for everyone if tagging is verifiable. No-one can manage perfect objectivity, so it's best to tag from what's visible in the image without using anything that might rely on code words or implicit shared knowledge. To the extent that one person can actually evaluate that for themselves.

I just have two words for you, Anomynous. Thank you.

For what it's worth, I agree that "girly" should be used for both. As Anonymous said, the "conventional frilly pink stereotype," for either sex. If all you want is girly boys, just put that in the search, that way it doesn't exclude boys in frills being dommed by a female.

As for the original picture...I don't see tits on that right hand character, it could totally be a girly boy :-D. Even a quick look around the artist's site doesn't reveal much, except it's name is "Musette." So probably a lady.