Aliasing feminine -> girly.
Reason: They appear to be used for the same thing, but girly has about 3 times as many posts in it.

(I hope I'm making this suggestion correctly, I have no idea how this sort of thing is normally done.)

Shatari said:
Aliasing feminine -> girly.
Reason: They appear to be used for the same thing, but girly has about 3 times as many posts in it.

(I hope I'm making this suggestion correctly, I have no idea how this sort of thing is normally done.)

I approve of this.

I do not support this alias.

There was a huge argument over the "Girly" tag in ages past that I read about. Put simply, the Girly tag is supposed to apply to males while the Feminine tag is supposed to apply to females.

That's the way it was intended, anyway.

Percy101 said:
I do not support this alias.

There was a huge argument over the "Girly" tag in ages past that I read about. Put simply, the Girly tag is supposed to apply to males while the Feminine tag is supposed to apply to females.

That's the way it was intended, anyway.

Yes, and that is the way it has been tagged (one of my favorite tags actually). Easier to search as you don't need an extra tag for male (and maybe solo), and easier to blacklist too.

Someone should probably edit the wiki pages to reflect this (actually create one for feminine and link it as a related tag to girly with an appropriate note). Also, go through the feminine images and root out all of the ones referring to boys.

...unless of course the mods disagree.

Valence said:
Yes, and that is the way it has been tagged (one of my favorite tags actually). Easier to search as you don't need an extra tag for male (and maybe solo), and easier to blacklist too.

That's actually not how it's tagged, as the feminine tag is almost entirely girly males. If the tag is being incorrectly used (I'll wait for the mod's opinions, since I missed the conversation relating to it) then it needs a lot of polish.

Percy101 said:
I do not support this alias.

There was a huge argument over the "Girly" tag in ages past that I read about. Put simply, the Girly tag is supposed to apply to males while the Feminine tag is supposed to apply to females.

That's the way it was intended, anyway.

how does girly=male and =/= female?

-_-

Gayteensex said:
how does girly=male and =/= female?

-_-

I'm not gonna spend the ten minutes to half-hour it takes to sift through all of those topics to link back to the one I'm referring to.

But...

KloH0und said:
Someone should probably edit the wiki pages to reflect this (actually create one for feminine and link it as a related tag to girly with an appropriate note). Also, go through the feminine images and root out all of the ones referring to boys.

...unless of course the mods disagree.

I WILL, however, do this.

EDIT:

Done.

feminine --Created from scratch, as one did not exist yet.

girly --Edited to include Feminine as a related tag.

I will proceed to manually retag images that're tagged with "Feminine" to be tagged with "Girly" as appropriate.

EDIT:

Aaand if the mods disagree, then the feminine page can be deleted, which seems likely to happen due to the fact that there are very few appropriately tagged Feminine images. I may have to fix that myself. I'm sure I can think of a few feminine female characters.

EDIT:

Yes, there will be many edits to this post.
I've noticed something while editing the tags--pretty much EVERY "feminine"-tagged image in which feminine was denoting a male has ALSO been tagged with "Girly".

What the heck is the point of using both of these tags for males? Girly is already in existence and works perfectly fine without using a second tag that the person intends to mean the same thing.

EDIT:

I think I've tagged about all that I have the stamina to tag tonight.

If anybody could help, I would really appreciate it, even if it's just two or three images.

May try to retag some more tomorrow.

Gayteensex said:
how does girly=male and =/= female?

-_-

The words themselves have little differences besides connotations and usage.

However, as far as e621 is concerned creating a distinction between the two can be useful for tagging.

It may be an arbitrary one, but tags like "girly_girl" or "girly_boy" invite too many permutations ("boyish_girl" and "boyish boy" would have to be added) and other compound tags (and in turn their permutations).

Question then: for something which is not male or female (herm or ambiguous gender) which tag should be added?

Lyokira said:
Question then: for something which is not male or female (herm or ambiguous gender) which tag should be added?

Neuter? Not sure what you're talking about.

feminine is a stupid tag. We gonna start using masculine too?

ippiki_ookami said:
feminine is a stupid tag. We gonna start using masculine too?

We do have a muscles tag.

Lyokira said:
Question then: for something which is not male or female (herm or ambiguous gender) which tag should be added?

Riversyde said:
Neuter? Not sure what you're talking about.

Example: post #169575
Currently using girly. Is this correct or wrong?

Riversyde said:
We do have a muscles tag.

Muscles is a word that points out the fact that a character's muscles are prominent and noticeable. It indicates something physically there. Tags like feminine, however, are based on societal constructs of gender. Shifting constructs, mind you. The ideas of femininity and masculinity are somewhat abstract and mutable. "Muscles" is not. That is why I agree with ippiki that having tags like masculine or feminine are somewhat silly. It would mean e621 has an "official" standpoint on each gender, and then each tagger would bring his/her own opinion on what it means to be of a particular gender to the table, and would tag accordingly.

I do, however, see the usefulness of having a tag that indicates a character is displaying traits traditionally associated with a particular gender. I think that applying girly to images of male-sexed characters displaying traits associated with the female sex/feminine gender is ok, similarly manly to images of female sexed characters etc. I feel it's unnecessary to tag female characters behaving femininely with feminine or girly.

Also I just really don't like that that puts a box around what it is to be man or woman. If I were to search for an image of female characters being feminine, I really doubt I'd be looking for the same traits that others would. It wouldn't be useful. I'd search for "female" and then particular physical descriptors, which are factual and can be ascertained easily from the image and are not based on societal ideas.

Lyokira said:
Example: post #169575
Currently using girly. Is this correct or wrong?

Just to note: I tagged that one "Girly" to split the difference, since the character is a crossdressing male, but there's no visible sign that it's a male (and thus is tagged as ambiguous). The basic gist was to make sure that people interested in it could find it while still adhering to the "tag what you see" policy.

Shatari said:
That's actually not how it's tagged, as the feminine tag is almost entirely girly males. If the tag is being incorrectly used (I'll wait for the mod's opinions, since I missed the conversation relating to it) then it needs a lot of polish.

Erm, I was referring to Percy's post, not the OP. I was trying to say that feminine is used for girly males, and is convenient so it should be kept that way.

Valence said:
Erm, I was referring to Percy's post, not the OP. I was trying to say that feminine is used for girly males, and is convenient so it should be kept that way.

We already have "Girly" for girly males.

Spread the love a little, man.

EDIT:

Also, while it might still be a bit troublesome, the least troubling way to solve the problem about intersex characters that need a feminine tag would be to separate the tags by aliasing Girly to Femboy, then removing the alias and using Girly for intersex characters and Femboy for male characters while still holding Feminine for female characters. The wikis would have to be changed to reflect this however, and I doubt that the notion will have much support.

Either way, continuing yesterday's retag project now.

EDIT:

Project complete.

Changed all male feminine tags over to girly unless they appeared to be ambiguous_gender. Also skipped over the few intersex character images for the sake of those who want to argue in favor of feminine also applying to intersex characters.

Also, added the feminine tag to a few new appropriate images. Hopefully it will help with the tag implementation.

Feminine for intersexed or more-female-than-male characters = support. Not for straight up females though, since by basic definition they're feminine (unless they're being manly or acting like a tomboy, which has its own set of tags for such a case). Girly has always been used for the "fembois" (ugh, hate that term) who are effectively female in looks, while being within a male body. Usually denoted by overly feminine clothes and mannerisms, including a very subbish personality.

123easy said:
Feminine for intersexed or more-female-than-male characters = support. Not for straight up females though, since by basic definition they're feminine (unless they're being manly or acting like a tomboy, which has its own set of tags for such a case). Girly has always been used for the "fembois" (ugh, hate that term) who are effectively female in looks, while being within a male body. Usually denoted by overly feminine clothes and mannerisms, including a very subbish personality.

Dude, fembois have a huge tendency to look more feminine than females do. The point of the Feminine tag in the females' case is to denote that they're girly enough to hold a candle to fembois. There aren't nearly as many of those as you might think, though with a little searching you can still find them.

"...look more feminine than females do." *twitch* Just... argh no. Just no. And the point of the Girly tag is that it denotes fembois feminine enough to hold a candle to females, NOT the stupid ass-backwards fucked up thinking way around you've stated it. It's called 'feminine' because of -females-, NOT fembois- Which are themselves named after 'fem' from 'female' and 'bois' from the bastardization of 'boys', using an i instead of the y because 'it makes it look more girly'. hell, even 'girly' is initially from females BECAUSE GIRLS ARE FEMALE. Jesus...

123easy said:
"...look more feminine than females do." *twitch* Just... argh no. Just no. And the point of the Girly tag is that it denotes fembois feminine enough to hold a candle to females, NOT the stupid ass-backwards fucked up thinking way around you've stated it. It's called 'feminine' because of -females-, NOT fembois- Which are themselves named after 'fem' from 'female' and 'bois' from the bastardization of 'boys', using an i instead of the y because 'it makes it look more girly'. hell, even 'girly' is initially from females BECAUSE GIRLS ARE FEMALE. Jesus...

You mad, bro?

Seriously, go do a tag search for Girly. See how feminine the guys look in comparison to most of the girls in the images. With the exception of maybe Wendy from Wolfy-Nail's work and the female characters drawn by Phsuke, Fluff-Kevlar and Spazzykoneko, the Girly male characters look more girly and/or girlified than most of the female characters.

I had a big long post, but I lost it, so I'mma just post the first thing I said: IDGAF.

123easy said:
I had a big long post, but I lost it, so I'mma just post the first thing I said: IDGAF.

Then why did you write a big long post in the first place?
u mad bro

It's official.

That 'u mad' meme is officially retarded.

Officially.

ExplosiveBlaziken said:
It's official.

That 'u mad' meme is officially retarded.

Officially.

No, it's not. Problem?