Aliasing maid -> maid_uniform.

Reason: Tag what you see in the post, not what you read in the artist's comments. IE: A maid is only a maid when a uniform is present.

I disagree. Would we also alias teacher to teacher_uniform? Cop to cop_uniform? Doctor to doctor_uniform? Et cetera.

The uniform doesn't automatically cover everything -- it's often distinguishable from an image whether a character is actually supposed to be a maid, or is simply wearing a maid's uniform for cosplay or fetish reasons. So, there really is good reason to have both (separate) tags.

A teacher's "uniform" is the classroom. The desk, the chalkboard... not a specific set of clothes. However.. a police officer is a police officer. If The police officer is in plain clothes, there's probaly no way to tell. If the officer is at home watching the game, there's no telling him from Joe the plumber, or larry the linebacker. In that case, the character doesn't matter, only if he's wearing it, or if the uniform is visible in the image.

The same is true for a maid. How to tell if a person is a maid? look for the uniform. A girl cleaning house may simply be a girlfriend or a wife.

However, the big difference here is that police_uniform has only 2 images, and police has 100-ish.... while maid has 265 and maid_uniform has 289.

When I search maid_uniform -maid, all of the resulting images are of people in maid uniforms, who, in turn, look like maids.

However, I think this may be better served as an implication.. If there is a made, there should be a maid uniform in the image. if there is not, then the image probably shouldn't be labeled maid.

acct0283476 said:
The uniform doesn't automatically cover everything -- it's often distinguishable from an image whether a character is actually supposed to be a maid, or is simply wearing a maid's uniform for cosplay or fetish reasons. So, there really is good reason to have both (separate) tags.

True. but then it becomes subjective. "Anime" and furry storylines often require suspension of disbelief. Personally, most of the maid images we have I would say are 'not maids'.... it's better to remove the subjective aspect and say that they're either a maid if they're in a uniform, or of that if they're in a uniform, they're a maid...

Your 'either' bit had two identical cases, so I'm not quite sure what you meant. :/

[EDIT]
The thing is, it's not a matter of subjective tagging -- the context of the rest of the image around the character can clearly indicate that the character is not a maid. For example, there are pictures where it is obvious by dialogue, mannerisms, or other context that a character is merely dressed as a maid. Also, again, a character sheet or dress up doll type thing may have multiple outfits, yet often only one (or none) of them is meant to actually be descriptive of the character, and the rest are just as examples of variation.

I may have been unclear... maybe I'm sleepy but it still makes sence to me. :/

Anyway, my blathering point was that when people are looking for maid, or maid_uniform, they're wanting the aesthetics of the outfit to fap to. I think, for most people, the exact situation doesn't matter... and when faced with maid and maid_uniform, they'll select the one with more posts and browse from there.

but it IS still subjective, in my opinion.

post #98884 for example. One could say that the girl is a maid who's duties are to milk the.. uh.. miltanks.. but the miltank also looks pretty pleased with him.. her.. uh.. it'self... so maybe he's the master here, and she's his maid, but maybe she is just a girl into miltanks and is pressing up like that for her own pleasure or someone else's . . or it could jsut be her job.

Plus there are so many like post #78132 where there's simply no indication. Is she a girlfriend shyly dressing up for her boyfriend? or she a new hire protesting the new uniform? even in pistures like post #61565 the question could still be brought up.. is she a maid who's duties include other things? or is this an elaborate RP scene?

Additionally, the maid_uniform -maid search should, by your statement, bring up all images of people dressing up like maids who do not actually clean house or anything... but most of the resulting images have no indicators one way or another. (post #84259 - skunk dressed up for you, or in the middle of cleaning house? a prop, or a tool?)

I guess my point is, there IS a clear and definite difference between the maid and the maid uniform, as you say... but I think multiple tags would just confuse the issue, and encourage incorrect tagging...

Eh. I recognize that the current differentiation of those two tags is pretty bad, as most people just guess one or the other and only put that one... But, generally speaking, I wouldn't consider people being stupid and tagging poorly a good reason to remove tags entirely -- All that does is prevent people from fixing them. :/

Also, I didn't say that context always shows whether they're actually a maid or not, I said it can show it. I'd wondered when typing that if it'd get misinterpreted... I guess I should have tried to be more clear. Anyways, I do recognize that a lot of images aren't clear (or have no context to speak of). All the same, some are.

If they only have a maid hat, does that imply maid_uniform? I could see it implying maid. Maybe that's splitting hairs.

Is it really worth using more complicated tags (maid_uniform as opposed to maid) to avoid accidentally tagging someone who's only dressed as a maid, as a maid? I don't really think anybody will care, and I don't even see a reason to. Who cares if they're not ACTUALLY a maid? Does it even make one bit of difference whether they are or not?

acct0283476 said:
I'd wondered when typing that if it'd get misinterpreted... I guess I should have tried to be more clear.

no, I understood you. I just.. hmm.. we're saying the same thing here basically, I think, just we have a different opinion about what ought to be done about it.

and true, people's stupidity shouldn't be a reason to not tag something, but its' a good reason all the same, unless someone specifically plans to keep an eye on that part of e621 and keep it mopped up and tidy. :)

((all that said, Tony, I think, says what I have been intending to say, with far fewer and better chosen words ^^;))

Necroing this because some time later forum #60825 happened, and cheerleader got aliased to cheerleader_uniform. To be consistent maid should also be aliased to maid_uniform. If you're doing this just remember to unimplicated french_maid from maid and implicate it (or maybe alias - it has very few instances) to maid_uniform.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Necroing this because some time later forum #60825 happened, and cheerleader got aliased to cheerleader_uniform. To be consistent maid should also be aliased to maid_uniform. If you're doing this just remember to unimplicated french_maid from maid and implicate it (or maybe alias - it has very few instances) to maid_uniform.

As I posted on the referred-to thread, "

DrHorse said:
Frankly, I view nurse/nurse_uniform, cheerleader/cheerleader_uniforms, etcetera as being a clothed/clothing thing. That's how it's been tagged, and that's how I'm going to continue tagging in order to avoid arguments about male maids and male schoolgirls.

I think this is really an awesome point. Nurse implies the character is a nurse (we can infer this from the character's surroundings, mannerisms, et al) vs. simply wearing some variant of the uniform that nurses typically wear, and the same applies for other commonly known uniforms like this. "

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Necroing this because some time later forum #60825 happened, and cheerleader got aliased to cheerleader_uniform. To be consistent maid should also be aliased to maid_uniform. If you're doing this just remember to unimplicated french_maid from maid and implicate it (or maybe alias - it has very few instances) to maid_uniform.

I disagree, I think they should be un-aliased as there can be a image of the uniform and not the cheerleader.

123easy said:
As I posted on the referred-to thread, "I think this is really an awesome point. Nurse implies the character is a nurse (we can infer this from the character's surroundings, mannerisms, et al) vs. simply wearing some variant of the uniform that nurses typically wear, and the same applies for other commonly known uniforms like this. "

I really don't like idea of guessing whether character is true Scotsman maid or not. It's really not TWYS, and I don't think that there are that many people who would appreciate existence of two tags.

Seriously, is there a person who at least once searched for maid_uniform -maid? I'd rather alias this tags, and leave unprofessional_behavior tag for searching for imposters.
BTW, I also don't think that clothing, as a separate tag to clothed, is a good tag. Making few child tags out of it is even worse IMO.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
I really don't like idea of guessing whether character is true Scotsman maid or not. It's really not TWYS, and I don't think that there are that many people who would appreciate existence of two tags.

Seriously, is there a person who at least once searched for maid_uniform -maid? I'd rather alias this tags, and leave unprofessional_behavior tag for searching for imposters.
BTW, I also don't think that clothing, as a separate tag to clothed, is a good tag. Making few child tags out of it is even worse IMO.

So a nurse who is performing medical care in regular clothes and a nametag, isn't a nurse because he isn't wearing a specific uniform? Someone wearing a slutty variant of a nurse's uniform is anurse because they're wearing a skipy set of clothes that are reminiscent of a true uniform? Further, there can't be a pile of clothes lying on the ground without anyone wearing them? How would you tag clothing that someone had tossed aside and is now prancing about nude in- can't tag that clothed, after all. Yet, to illustrate the clothing is actually being worn, how do you search? You might argue that rating:s qualifies, but that's only a fraction of the truth, given that you can have images with one person clothed and another not, and thus the rating reflects the worse situation.

123easy said:
So a nurse who is performing medical care in regular clothes and a nametag, isn't a nurse because he isn't wearing a specific uniform?
Someone wearing a slutty variant of a nurse's uniform is anurse because they're wearing a skipy set of clothes that are reminiscent of a true uniform?

First of all. The purpose of the tags is not seeking the truth. Purpose of the tags is to describe what is visible on picture without any context. How many pictures do you know where, without any outside info, you can say that character is nurse and she/he is not wearing nurse uniform?

Performing medical care is not something that is restricted to nurse. When other person is going to perform it there's no lightning going from heavens to strike this person down. If you want to search for medical procedures, then use medical tag, or something like that.

I also don't know why you don't want person in slutty uniform to be a nurse, but you insist to call this uniform as nurse uniform.

Further, there can't be a pile of clothes lying on the ground without anyone wearing them? How would you tag clothing that someone had tossed aside and is now prancing about nude in- can't tag that clothed, after all. Yet, to illustrate the clothing is actually being worn, how do you search? You might argue that rating:s qualifies, but that's only a fraction of the truth, given that you can have images with one person clothed and another not, and thus the rating reflects the worse situation.

And who is going to search for pile of clothes on floor? Who is going to use this tag. IMO, this is just tagging just for sake of tagging. It serves no purpose. But fine - let's keep clothing tag. Do you really need more tags to know whether there are nurse or maid uniforms on the floor?

Before you ask - why I don't like clothing tag? Too many people use it instead of clothed. clothing -clothed is not full of pictures of pile of clothing laying around. And there are so many results, that it will be very difficult to clean it.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Before you ask - why I don't like clothing tag? Too many people use it instead of clothed. clothing -clothed is not full of pictures of pile of clothing laying around.

That's because just about every clothing-related tag is chain-implicated to that. Such as open_shirt -> shirt -> clothing. It's a catchall for all types of clothing, worn or discarded.

I've never used the clothed tag myself, because I have no idea where to use it. We already have nude, partially_clothed and bottomless/topless tags for characters that aren't fully clothed. And it can't mean fully_clothed, since it is implicated from half-dressed. (And if it should be tagged for all worn clothing, then it's redundant because '-nude' gets the same result.)

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
First of all. The purpose of the tags is not seeking the truth. Purpose of the tags is to describe what is visible on picture without any context. How many pictures do you know where, without any outside info, you can say that character is nurse and she/he is not wearing nurse uniform?

Performing medical care is not something that is restricted to nurse. When other person is going to perform it there's no lightning going from heavens to strike this person down. If you want to search for medical procedures, then use medical tag, or something like that.

I also don't know why you don't want person in slutty uniform to be a nurse, but you insist to call this uniform as nurse uniform.

post #258231 post #396879

Slutty nurse uniforms. They're very definitely recognizable as being a slutty variant on the stereotypical nurse's outfit (and either hybrids between lingerie or swimsuits and the outfit), all in white and with the white nurse's cap with the red cross on it.

post #406005

Here's an example for both. No actual nurse's uniform has that little fabric, but it's still instantly recognizable as a slutty variant of one on sight. HOWEVER, it takes place within a hospital/doctor's office environment, so it can be inferred that she's a nurse that is dressing slutty for him.

post #363681

Here we see very definitely a doctor's office styled room, and again, partial outfit, unprofessional behaviour occuring but that's a nurse wearing a nurse's_outfit (unless you want to try and say that they broke in just to have sex, but that's not supported with the visuals).

And who is going to search for pile of clothes on floor? Who is going to use this tag. IMO, this is just tagging just for sake of tagging. It serves no purpose. But fine - let's keep clothing tag. Do you really need more tags to know whether there are nurse or maid uniforms on the floor?

Same reason superheroes should be tagged by their costume name as well as the character wearing it. It's a visually recognizable identity. Much like how you can see someone wearing Firefighter's gear or Paramedic's gear and immediately recognize it for what it is, even if you look at the person wearing it and how they're wearing it and in that same instant know that they are wearing it as a disguise rather than because it is what their job is.

123easy said:
post #258231 post #396879

Slutty nurse uniforms. They're very definitely recognizable as being a slutty variant on the stereotypical nurse's outfit (and either hybrids between lingerie or swimsuits and the outfit), all in white and with the white nurse's cap with the red cross on it.

post #406005

Here's an example for both. No actual nurse's uniform has that little fabric, but it's still instantly recognizable as a slutty variant of one on sight. HOWEVER, it takes place within a hospital/doctor's office environment, so it can be inferred that she's a nurse that is dressing slutty for him.

post #363681

Here we see very definitely a doctor's office styled room, and again, partial outfit, unprofessional behaviour occuring but that's a nurse wearing a nurse's_outfit (unless you want to try and say that they broke in just to have sex, but that's not supported with the visuals).

Both of them looks like nurse to me. Whether someone is imposter or not is just like, your personal taste. I don't see why this should be tagged.

Same reason superheroes should be tagged by their costume name as well as the character wearing it. It's a visually recognizable identity. Much like how you can see someone wearing Firefighter's gear or Paramedic's gear and immediately recognize it for what it is, even if you look at the person wearing it and how they're wearing it and in that same instant know that they are wearing it as a disguise rather than because it is what their job is.

Your analogy is wrong. Nurse is to nurse_uniform like batman is to batman_uniform, not bruce_wayne to batman_uniform. We don't have separate tag for batman as a real hero, and separate tag for some Crazy Steve who is wearing this costume to kidnap 12 year old kids.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Both of them looks like nurse to me. Whether someone is imposter or not is just like, your personal taste. I don't see why this should be tagged.

It uses information provided in the image that is not strictly the character alone.

Your analogy is wrong. Nurse is to nurse_uniform like batman is to batman_uniform, not bruce_wayne to batman_uniform. We don't have separate tag for batman as a real hero, and separate tag for some Crazy Steve who is wearing this costume to kidnap 12 year old kids.

We SHOULD be tagging Bruce_Wayne or Terry_McGinnis or whomever is under Batman's mask, if it's an image of a canon character, or we have sufficient information about who is wearing the costume otherwise (being called by name; a specific, recognizable character with traits we have agreed t define visually like Artica Sparkle; Not having the complete costume on and being partially visible as themselves, etc.)then they should be tagged. We've just been rather lazy about it so far and tagged just the superhero identity to images containing the character and also on images just containing the costume and not the character who traditionally wears it.

123easy said:
It uses information provided in the image that is not strictly the character alone.

You have no information whether character is nurse or not on the picture. You are just making guesses - we're not tagging like that.

We SHOULD be tagging Bruce_Wayne or Terry_McGinnis or whomever is under Batman's mask,

You are completely missing the point. I'm not talking about tagging character under the mask. I'm talking that we don't make separate tags for batman, and batman_costume to tag only the latter on picture when someone in batman costume is listening to rock and roll. After all we know that real batman hates rock and roll.