very true! bring back the edits!

very true! bring back the edits!

My Name is Commander Shepperd and this is my favorite Post on this Site

Watch him immediately flag this one for deletion because it called him out

Edit: and this one is well within the quality standards so they don’t have any excuse to delete it either

Edit 2: I am pleasantly surprised

Based, get fucked NMNY, you pathetic fatass hack of a janny

Original deleted post.

https://e621.net/posts/3006631

He didn't even deny it BTW when he had it deleted.

Logged in just to give this a like

notmenotyou said:
The twokinds fandom actually did something original for once? I didn't think I'd live long enough to actually see this happening.

This is gonna get me banned.

There is about 4.6k pictures with the Twokinds tag, about 3k of those also has the tom fischbach tag, based on that there should be around 1.6k pictures made by other artists. While some of them may be traces or some other kind of copy of Toms or others work, there is a lot of original work out there.

And in case you were being sarcastic, eh, hard to tell over the internet.

Ya know, it'd be nice if something flagged for deletion could be voted for revision and possible approval by the community, since I have seen some really good edits before get deleted into nothingness just because they were edits. But ideally that would require a new user group for said privilege, I think.

It's a genuinely shit decision. Tom has outright explicitly okayed NSFW for his characters. https://i.imgur.com/huODd4Y.png AND he is perfectly fine with edits of his work. Not allowing edits isn't just lazy, it's genuinely active malice towards the community.

sin_of_wrath said:
This is gonna get me banned.

There is about 4.6k pictures with the Twokinds tag, about 3k of those also has the tom fischbach tag, based on that there should be around 1.6k pictures made by other artists. While some of them may be traces or some other kind of copy of Toms or others work, there is a lot of original work out there.

And in case you were being sarcastic, eh, hard to tell over the internet.

It's more the fact that there are something like 600 (deleted) edits of twokinds related work, which is a .... really significant number of posts, on the scale we're talking about.

And a lot of these edits are awful. Like, yeah. there are some good edits out there! there are also a shitton of crap.

Like, I'm browsing through the list of deleted twokinds edits, and here's what I'm seeing:

- I added little c shapes for the nipnops, now she's nekkid :D
- They take a picture that isn't related to two kinds and edit it to look like it's two kinds.
- sometimes the original artist is DNP. A lot of artists don't like edits of their work. This is part of why we're so hard on edits.
- They take a regular footjob picture and added faces in dialog bubbles to make it look like the foot job is happening between the two characters, but have literally changed nothing else.
- here's one where they use actual paysite content as the base for their edit, but it's okay because they got it from another image board, so it's free, right??
- there's also a big chunk of edits that were taken down at the artist's request.
- and there were SO many edits where things were pixelated, and... generally, very clumsily done.

And this shit was really hard to sort through? Like, the rules have long said (5 years!) that posts need to be high quality and high effort. Things like just changing a cat girl from yellow to grey and slapping a new face on it.... isn't high effort. just adding a little vertical like on a crotch isn't either. Especially not when it's pixelated and look like someone made a selection and messed with the colorize features.

We're not trying to be mean, we're not trying to single two kinds out. we look at all edits with this kinda scrutiny... and just... a lot of it really doesn't measure up and it was causing a lot of stress on the staff-- this guy is the first in a very, very, VERY long line of people throwing a fit because we deleted their nipple edit. Heck, I remember getting blasted because someone posted some human-only two kinds. Like, we haven't allowed human-only in ages.

Like, ya'll are really passionate, and that's great! but for every 100 passionate fans, there's some guy who'll spend the next 3 weeks messaging everyone on the staff, posting whenever they can about how the janitors are--wait, lemme get some quotes--"brain damaged p***ks" who "[need their] moderation privileges revoked" because we're incompetent or biased. and that's some of the nicer things that have been said. And out of those, there are some who'll go even further. dozens of accounts made with names of "fucksnowwolf" or "snowwolfisafaggot", spamming crusades, doxing.... we had a guy a few months back who's idea of 'revenge' was to post... uh.. human young rating:e on the website. But actually photographs. Real ones.

post #1616292

And the thing with rules is... if you say "you must be this tall to ride" people will complain because they're EXACTLY that tall, or they're only like an inch short, can't we make an exception, but my brother's already inside, my mom says I'm that tall, your sign is wrong, you let me in last year. ...but if you just say "You need to be 16 to ride." it becomes a lot simpler: you either are, or are not 16, y'know?

notmenotyou said:
And we have a rule against all edits that aren't hand drawn and on par with the original artwork. The people who are good enough to clear that bar usually just make entirely original artworks instead of editing existing artwork, hence why their art is allowed and all the edits aren't.

Then why not screen Twokinds on a case by case basis like everything else rather than ban them all?

snowwolf said:
It's more the fact that there are something like 600 (deleted) edits of twokinds related work, which is a .... really significant number of posts, on the scale we're talking about.

And a lot of these edits are awful. Like, yeah. there are some good edits out there! there are also a shitton of crap.

And this shit was really hard to sort through? Like, the rules have long said (5 years!) that posts need to be high quality and high effort. Things like just changing a cat girl from yellow to grey and slapping a new face on it.... isn't high effort. just adding a little vertical like on a crotch isn't either. Especially not when it's pixelated and look like someone made a selection and messed with the colorize features.

We're not trying to be mean, we're not trying to single two kinds out. we look at all edits with this kinda scrutiny... and just... a lot of it really doesn't measure up and it was causing a lot of stress on the staff-- this guy is the first in a very, very, VERY long line of people throwing a fit because we deleted their nipple edit. Heck, I remember getting blasted because someone posted some human-only two kinds. Like, we haven't allowed human-only in ages.

Okay, honest, cross my heart serious question. Why not find people who are capable of doing the job then?

You can't tell me that it isn't kinda super hypocritical to blanket ban all edits of an artist because people weren't putting in effort for edits of that artist, purely based on the excuse, that it was too much effort for admin. Yeah, 600-ish posts is a lot, no denying that. But that 600 posts are accumulated over the course of literal years. You're really gonna ban Everything over "low effort" posts because your admin team feels overworked when they get one or two TK edits every couple days, or a batch posting every couple weeks.

Yes, you're not JUST getting TK content across your desks, and other stuff adding on top does eventually amount to real effort on the admin side. But that's the job. So why not get more/better people to do the job?

*Edit for a word

notmenotyou said:
The "really" good edits you're talking about are "good" because either they made the images larger with waifu2x (which anyone can do themselves for identical results by clicking about 3 buttons) and because they cut body parts from one image out and pasted them in. We delete both of those types of edits all the time as we find them, just with twokinds in particular the fanbase is so productive with their low effort offerings we've made a DNP status to hammer it home that we don't those things here.

And no, your idea is not going to happen, not only is this not a democratically run website we simply also wouldn't give that type of power to people who don't understand and follow our rules.

No, I mean actual good edits, not some upscaler bullshit with copypasta. Do you take me for a noob or an idiot?

versperus said:
finding reliable people who are knowledgeable enough, as well as trustworthy enough to take time out of their lives to work for free curating a website whos patrons go out of their ways to insult them when their feelings are hurt is probably a hard position to fill.

Personally, I'd just treat it like my retail job. "I don't make rules, I just enforce them. Shut up." Not *that* hard to ignore angry people, til it gets chronic. Then its mostly frustrating more than anything o3o

This got very messy very quickly

notmenotyou said:
Go ahead, show me one of the good edits you're talking about. They're probably still all up on rule34.xxx.

Given the overall impression you give me, you would probably cherrypick at some trivial matter. So give me a reason to try.

Besides, I hate how some of those "alternate sites" tends to push for popups and have awful loading times.

on a side note I think this artist is the source of shotgun chungus
https://twitter.com/YttriumNSFW/status/1261063542016532486?s=20

notmenotyou said:
And we have a rule against all edits that aren't hand drawn and on par with the original artwork. The people who are good enough to clear that bar usually just make entirely original artworks instead of editing existing artwork, hence why their art is allowed and all the edits aren't.

And yet before you were called out, there were literal PAGES of futa and nipple edits that went untouched, but the second a preg edit went up you'd come flying out of the woodwork faster than we could blink and yank them down.

notmenotyou said:
Go ahead, show me one of the good edits you're talking about. They're probably still all up on rule34.xxx.

It's not even just the volume of shitty edits particularly with this canon, but the way how the people making them are entirely incapable of accepting that their shitty edits aren't going to get accepted and them whining to us about won't change our stance. They didn't take the hint so we clarified it with a full ban.

We aren't the only site on the internet hosting furry artwork with a halfway decent search engine attached to it, there are plenty of other places without quality standards to chose from.

Okay, a good chunk of Seff's edits, and a good chunk of JMdoc's edits/redraws are both by consensus pretty good. There's more, but lets just go with the "best" examples for the sake of argument.
https://imgur.com/a/WOaqIvt - a few of Seffs ones
https://www.furaffinity.net/gallery/jmadoc/folder/157676/twokinds

Really, if the problem was people just slapping circle dot nips and 5 second line pussies on stuff then...delete those low effort ones?
Possibly limit edits to coloured stuff since the lower effort stuff tends to come from the sketches, but even then this drastic. Every site has moderation, and yet most other boorus that host Twokinds edits allow them? Curious.
If all else fails use the upvotes and downvotes as an indicator, or better yet, just let people who don't like the edits use their blacklists.

At the end of the day e621 is *the* furry art site. So when they suddenly effectively ban a segment of the community like this it has a big knock on effect that harmed said comunity. Whether you realise this or not, or if you just write it off as the complaining of a few hundred autists is debatable.

notmenotyou not only actively hates the twokinds fandom, but likely their own community as well. this'll be my last comment before getting banned, just you watch.

notmenotyou said:
Because those were especially stupid and low effort because whoever made those couldn't even use a line tool properly to make a single clean line and like the proverbial grain of rice it finally broke the camel's back.

I like Seff's art enough that I watch him on FA but if I'm able to see the part that got edited without having to have the image fullscreen it's not a good edit. And no I don't mean "well it's the dick of course!" It's the difference in style between Fischbach and Seff that make his edits stick out like a sore thumb.

No other site has our level of moderation, or our quality standards for that matter. If sites want to house them they're more than welcome to do so, I'll even provide a copy of the edits if there are any missing. Also, no, the presence of the blacklist or votes will never have influence on our approval process in any way, shape, or form.

So far less than 10 people have cared enough to ask for a copy of the deleted edits, people like those edits because they contain twokinds characters and nothing else. Mentally replace the characters in Seff's edits above with a similarly generic OC and nobody would have bat an eye at the deletions. The "harm to the community" is a drop spilled from a bucket at the best of days and even less significant any other time.

Oh my God, can you be any more condescending?

Just seems like he has a personnel vendetta against these edits.
Just let them go, for god sakes. If they are truly shitty, just let the flagging system take it.
Many of these edits are pretty dang good.
I know the preg edits are always the reference, but damn some are very good.
Some Mike edits that are so hard to track down are seriously damn good stuff. For example the mike and erilas at the beach.

just marking my place to see if this gets deleted later.

I'm not here to argue about what rules should or shouldn't change, cause I don't care nearly enough, but hot damn am I here for the salt and drama :3c

badwolf1 said:
just marking my place to see if this gets deleted later.

NotMeNotYou already approved it.

snowwolf said:
it's 600 people angry because we didn't allow them to upload edits of art, from an artist who doesn't want edits.

I just want to note, that Tom literally says in his FAQ that he gives permission for anyone to edit any of his works, save for his commercial content, in any fashion and to upload them anywhere as long as it's not a paywalled site. He also gives permission for people to make their own works not only based on his comic's world/universe and the characters, but directly using the actual world and characters themselves. In his one paid 2K comic, he thanks the reader in the intro for purchasing it, but says even if they didn't, he isn't mad.

He's probably the most relaxed and liberal furry artist alive in regards to his IP.

He intentionally does art in a manner that not only make edits easy to do, but encourages it.

Rules are one thing, but Tom not wanting edits is absolutely not true. And a quick visit to his site's FAQ will confirm it.

notmenotyou said:
No other site has our level of moderation, or our quality standards for that matter.

The level of moderation is what makes e6 the gold standard for other boorus to look to. But the little cases like this end up being the bumps. When the staff seams to not take community input, or does it selectively to get their own way. Doesn't happen often thankfully, but the fact that people are still complaining about this two whole years later surely means those edits meant something to a lot of people.

notmenotyou said:
So far less than 10 people have cared enough to ask for a copy of the deleted edits

1 person asks and spreads them to many others. I'd also say the number is pretty deceptive when the vast majority don't know they existed. it spread by word of mouth.

notmenotyou said:
votes will never have influence on our approval process in any way, shape, or form.

Whilst its obvious they don't work for stuff that's controversial, disgusting, or weird kinks, in general, I'd say they'd work pretty well in this case. You guys aren't robots, you can understand why they work for some posts and not others? Is there even a way for the sites users to have an input on small issues that affect a small community like this?

notmenotyou said:
The "harm to the community" is a drop spilled from a bucket at the best of days and even less significant any other time.

No. E6 was the centralized distribution platform for edits at the time. Now that its not the entire community is fragmented and far harder to access. The fact that a hidden thread on 4chan and a private discord (and maybe the u18 threads) became the next best places to get twokinds stuff (3 separate places) buggered the edit community and is still having knock on effects to this day.
You may not see the damage, but it is done. A drop does matter when the bucket is a thimble.

You've really made yourself the villain for this one, NMNY. And your lazy, dismissive, and condescending "my way or the highway" responses aren't helping either. My biggest gripe with this site the past few years has ALWAYS been the moderation team either being incompetent, inconsistent, or out of touch with the community. For once NMNY, please listen to the general opinion.

Man this site's been going downhill since EDF stepped down

blackandwhitekat said:
All the deleted stuff is here apparently: [Cut]
Edit by SnowWolf -- we are hiding the quoted comment until we can confirm that it's safe :) I'm sure there's no ill intentions, we're just playing it safe! I don't think we mind this link being here at all, we just want to make sure it's safe!
Another edit by SnowWolf -- The file's safe, but NotMeNotYou doesn't want the file publicly distributed. See his post further down below for information on how to get it, if you'd like it.
Spoiler: it's really easy.

FYI, that Zip is infected by a trojan. When I downloaded it my antivirus went off, and reported it contained Trojan:Script/Sabsik.TE.A!ml.

drakkenfyre said:
FYI, that Zip is infected by a trojan. When I downloaded it my antivirus went off, and reported it contained Trojan:Script/Sabsik.TE.A!ml.

Scanned it with avast, semas fine to me

blackandwhitekat said:
Scanned it with avast, semas fine to me

Avast is terrible. The company's goal is to upsell you on overpriced AV subscriptions, not to provide a good product.

They also bought Piriform (creators of CCleaner) and proceeded to ruin it, turning it into spyware.

buddyt1 said:
very true! bring back the edits!

Oh, hey buddy

snowwolf said:

Ah, let me correct you. This isn't a job. We don't get paid. We are doing this because we love the website and want to make it a better place. I wish we got money for this. I'd love to be able to justify spending more time here, but this is my free time. Right now, my dinner is getting cold and my friends are waiting for me to come play a game together, but I"m here, typing to you, because I feel a responsibility for this place I volunteer at.

As for the second part of your question: you're welcome to suggest peopel you think might make good staff members. are you volunteering? do you have a couple of hours a day to devote to all this?

One last post before I'm off to bed.

As it so happens, I'm probably one of the more qualified people you're likely to come across. For a bit over twenty five years now, I've worked my ass off as a security officer, shift supervisor, site manager, and now district head for a fairly large US based security company. So when you say "Imagine some family coming in and fucking around" I don't have to imagine that, I've lived that IN PERSON time and time again. Hell, I have two molar implants from a pair of conflicts that turned extremely physical. I have spent YEARS with asshole members of the public who think they're God's gift to mankind, dealing with fellow guards getting injured and killed, and now I have to face down with HOA members, Public Transit managers, and LEO's who think they're literal Gods all demanding I do their bidding up to and including breaking serious laws, all the while keeping my board members happy with their multi-million dollar contracts secure.

Calmly and confidently dealing with fuckwits is kind of my specialty.

That being said, no, I would not spend my time doing this. Not for fear of the public and the workload they would incur, but because from what I can see, the bigger more long-term issues are internal and have not shown any indication that they are even remotely interested in corrective action.

You have one admin who made an objectively bad call: deleting a piece based on his own biases and loosely defending their actions with a poorly defined rule. The good reaction to criticism from them would have been something along the lines of, "Oops, yeah, you know what, I did overstep a bit. But I think we the admin team should probably look closer at our ruling system for edits going forward, some of this stuff is really low quality and is clogging or system tickets with reports. We might be taking some action against similar edits in the future."

But instead, he went and made an even worse decision by nuking all edits and blanket banning everything in retaliation for being called out for his poor performance. The one thing that could have saved the e6 admin team here would have been the others coming in and either correcting his decision for him and either putting him on probation, or outright removing him. Perhaps if you were really concerned with "low quality" edits you could have made a similar announcement as before regarding rule adjustments going forward.

But instead I see other admin coming in and just blindly defending their poor decisions to single out and punish an entire community because one member demanded accountability from a bad admin. And responding to feedback and suggestions with things like "This isn't a democracy" and "Vote's will never influence our processes" is a REALLY bad sign. (Free tip! Those people are the one's driving traffic to the site and getting the ad-revenue from your banners keeping the lights on. Their opinion is actually really important.)

You have clearly demonstrated to me that you are not an administration team working to curate the best possible site experience for your users. You are more or less just a gang prioritizing protecting each other's power-plays to the detriment of the site and the fanbases hosted therein. Of course you have people "Piddle out" after two days. Any actual manager worth their wight in table salt would see how you are all acting and sprint in the opposite direction. The only people who are gonna stick around in that kind of an environment are the sociopaths that look at these kinds of interactions and say "Yeah, I wanna piece of that power," pushing the Overton Window of quality further to the side of shit decisions.

And one last note before I go. Of COURSE most of the TK edits are only "low effort." Because Tom literally does 99% of the work already. He makes it incredibly easy for people to turn it into porn that if ANYONE saw and didn't know that it was an edit, they would think Tom just made high quality porn. Seriously, c'mon. Frozen dinners are "low effort" but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to be on store shelves just because you COULD potentially spend years honing your chef skills to spend hours a day making "High Effort" food. Sometimes you just need something quick, cheap, and delicious. Big Box stores figured that out decades ago. The cheap shit is perfectly fine, and it gets people in the door to spend their money on other things while they're there.

Like 2 weeks ago, some edit got deleted like this one

https://e621.net/posts/2986713?q=twokinds+status%3Aall
(edit)
https://imgur.com/E6QzHbf
(original)
https://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/1158/

Sure, other people are way better than me and can do such things in 2 sec, but I would not consider this a (Low quality/effort edit).
I know how to do cheep edits, but I can't do this easily without some practice.
If something changes now about the DNP and edit rule, I would like to give at least this post a second look.

snowwolf said:
Ah, okay. here's a misconception.

No one ever said that Tom asked to be on the do not post list.

Yes, it's a misconception. One I always point out when someone tries to claim it. But my point in quoting your previous comment is that you also said it, whether you meant to or not.

...we didn't allow them to upload edits of art, from an artist who doesn't want edits.

That's the pertinent part. Like I said, don't know if it was intentional or not, but that's what I was responding to.

blackandwhitekat said:
All the deleted stuff is here apparently: [redacted]

Doesn't include anything posted and then deleted after the edit ban tho, everything is marked 2019 (yes its been that long)

I'm gonna assume NMNY doesn't mind this being shared, can delete the comment if so, probably preferable to getting his admin inbox spammed for it

Huh it's been hidden. Blame NMNY if it does have a trojan I guess

NotMeNotYou said:
So far less than 10 people have cared enough to ask for a copy of the deleted edits

1. could you link them?
2. there are a lot of posts in tons of different fandoms on here where you have these kinds of, as you call them, low effort edits (which in part i agree some are low effort but some aren't) and they stick around and never get deleted. i tend to just ignore those posts though.

Thank goodness someone else slapped on the lol_comments tag.

blackandwhitekat said:
Huh it's been hidden. Blame NMNY if it does have a trojan I guess

We hiding it til we've checked it out - you guys think I'm really gonna click that

knotty_curls said:
We hiding it til we've checked it out - you guys think I'm really gonna click that

Ah okay, missed the little note on the comment itself, my bad ;w;

knotty_curls said:
We hiding it til we've checked it out - you guys think I'm really gonna click that

Just in case it does turn out to be clean, I just want to link a screenshot showing the alert, so the report was in good faith.

https://ibb.co/gm5bjHq

snowwolf said:
Just so you know, you seem to have a misconception how the flagging system.

An image is flagged for deletion in a number of circumstances. "I don't like this image" is not one of them.

Images are flagged if the artist is DNP, if it is paysite content, a trace, a file that had been deleted before, if there's RL porn in it, if the file's corrupted, if there's a better version of the file already available on the website.

if a picture is liked, or disliked has no bearing on if it's allowed to stay.

For that matter, the staff's personal feelings don't play into it either. If it did, I think we'd have a lot fewer scat/fart pictures ^-^
There've been several times, especially over the last two years that every last one of us on the staff were gritting our teeth and saying "I want to delete this, but there is not a rule that justifies it."

But, yeah, those are the only circumstances a flag should be used. And even if a picture IS flagged for deletion.... the staff also handle that. There's no 'automatic deletion system' except for the one that deletes pictures after they've been in the queue for 30 days.

I'm pretty sure by "shitty" they don't mean "I dislike it", but instead they mean "low-quality", which is in fact a deciding factor in whether you approve it. It's just not an option for users to flag (probably because people would abuse it as a super-downvote).

And as a side note, I've seen pictures get deleted after 30 days despite very clearly being of good quality, but the image was presumably something the approvers didn't like, such as a humanoid, or an artist they had problems with.

In any case, I think the backlash is getting out of hand, but it's an indication that the relationship with the userbase needs some fixing. Iffy decisions from admins that Shall Not Be Questioned are a great way to lose good will.

Not to reignite old controversies, but I've seen posts have incorrect tags locked onto them because admins didn't want to admit they could be wrong. And I'm specifically talking about tags that shouldn't be applied if we adhere to the Tag What You See policy (a policy which I fully agree with btw).

snowwolf said:
"Hi, no, we're just cracking down on low effort edits.

So this was out of a conversation from NMNY
I understand from this that the cheep stuff should be targeted.

My question is if you look at the example I made:

prokura said:
Like 2 weeks ago, some edit got deleted like this one

https://e621.net/posts/2986713?q=twokinds+status%3Aall
(edit)
https://imgur.com/E6QzHbf
(original)
https://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/1158/

...

Is this really a low effort edit?
Compared with the original, you see this was not just a copy / paste job
lot of lines got manually added, and blended in and there are no artifacts etc._{sorry was wrong}
even the shading fits on Nora's head
If this is not a quality edit, I don't know what else is.

I see the appealing to get rid of bad edits, and I understand that evaluate every post is a quite intensive job.
It is just sad that even the (in my opinion) good edits get thrown out as well.

hurr_durr said:
I'm pretty sure by "shitty" they don't mean "I dislike it", but instead they mean "low-quality", which is in fact a deciding factor in whether you approve it. It's just not an option for users to flag (probably because people would abuse it as a super-downvote).

And as a side note, I've seen pictures get deleted after 30 days despite very clearly being of good quality, but the image was presumably something the approvers didn't like, such as a humanoid, or an artist they had problems with.

In any case, I think the backlash is getting out of hand, but it's an indication that the relationship with the userbase needs some fixing. Iffy decisions from admins that Shall Not Be Questioned are a great way to lose good will.

Not to reignite old controversies, but I've seen posts have incorrect tags locked onto them because admins didn't want to admit they could be wrong. And I'm specifically talking about tags that shouldn't be applied if we adhere to the Tag What You See policy (a policy which I fully agree with btw).

30 day deletion is an automatic function so that posts don't just pend in the approval que for eternity

prokura said:
So this was out of a conversation from NMNY
I understand from this that the cheep stuff should be targeted.

My question is if you look at the example I made:

Is this really a low effort edit?
Compared with the original, you see this was not just a copy / paste job
lot of lines got manually added, and blended in and there are no artifacts etc.
even the shading fits on Nora's head
If this is not a quality edit, I don't know what else is.

I see the appealing to get rid of bad edits, and I understand that evaluate every post is a quite intensive job.
It is just sad that even the (in my opinion) good edits get thrown out as well.

for someone who knows what they're doin that would literally take under a minute to make, not even an exageration.

knotty_curls said:
Alright guys:

It's easier to have a blanket no-edit policy than it is to judge whether or not every edit is "good enough." The wording isn't "low-effort edits are DNP" - it's "All unofficial edits are DNP." Completely impersonal. NMNY even says it's impersonal in the quoted dmail.

If there are edits on the site which aren't grandfathered in, sure, point them out. Whatever.

You guys are reminding me of Leoian. Chill out. Make your own original work for once, rather than ride coattails.

Leoian?

versperus said:
Leoian?

guy who made a twokinds knockoff comic. Not really comparable to people making edits tho.
I'd say to search them up on here but seams like his stuff isn't on here.

The bad webcomics entry for twokinds might mention him but idk.

versperus said:

Leoian?

Nut job who effectively tried to claim Flora as his own character and was fairly aggro regarding it, iirc, apparently stalked Tom at conventions, and basically attempted to copy Twokinds, but with his own character in place of trace.

notmenotyou said:

So far less than 10 people have cared enough to ask for a copy of the deleted edits, people like those edits because they contain twokinds characters and nothing else.

You are allowed to call me stupied but i did not know it was possible to ask for copies of them. Is it still possible to get a link to those copies or has too much time passed?

cappaman said:
One last post before I'm off to bed.

As it so happens, I'm probably one of the more qualified people you're likely to come across. [...]

Calmly and confidently dealing with fuckwits is kind of my specialty.

You're doing a rough job and I don't envy you.

That said, that's exactly the sort I mean. Except with the security of anonymity that 'allows' them to act without consequence.

You have one admin who made an objectively bad call: deleting a piece based on his own biases and loosely defending their actions with a poorly defined rule.

Okay. First. Please explain how to write a firmly worded rule in regards to visual image quality? Trying to describe something you see with your eyes into words that manage to portray exactly what you want, so that everyone who reads it will understand the same thing. Even pictures don't help. I promise, we've tried.

We've done our best to be clear in the uploading guidelines, but it's hard to cover every possible circumstance. And if you start trying to cover every possible circumstance, people will start to play the game of "but you DIDN'T SAY that THIS was forbidden!!" and that shit's just not fun.

Okay. Second. No, I don't think an admin overstepped. Also, there were no biases in play. Dunno how to convince you on that one except that we have 19,000 pregnancy pictures, over 2500 of which were approved by the staff member in question.

Third...

Y'know. I was actually approaching this with good faith. Y'know, some guy uploaded something a couple days ago and it got deleted and they're sad and angry about this thing, and start posting about it.

Nope. I was wrong. This happened in 2019. For whatever reason, it's coming up now?

So I'm looking at the exact edits they were upset about research... They're... not very good. The artist states "still haven't learned much on how to draw bewbs on my own yet."

So. I will consider and see if I would approve them.

• Edit A adds boobs to character B. The boobs were clearly pasted from another drawing. There are lots of places where the lines don't line up, or are clipping. The boobs are also out of focus.

• Edit B adds nipples and a pregnant belly to character A. Nipple 1 is a perfect circle that makes no effort to match up with Tom's artstyle. the "inner nipple circle" has a quarter taken out of it. It kind of looks like an eye. There is no line weight variation, something that is very iconic in Tom's work. Nipple 2 is... special. It looks kinda like a cowboy hat. A blurry cowboy hat. The pregnant belly was pasted from somewhere else, as the lines are a lot darker and have a pixelated/resized look to them.
• Edit C is is a variation: non pregnant, with Edit B's nipples.
• Edit D is pregnant, with no nipples.
• Edit E was resized and the entire image is blurry. Character B has giant tits and big hips. They were redrawn for this picture, and are broad thick lines. They also deleted the chest tuft from this character, and removed a lot of detail from her sides and thighs. Just about all of that sketchy quality that Tom's work has is lost.
• Edit F is a color variation of the no-nipples-pregnant sketch. The original background was grayscale, and they've airbrushed green over the gray leaves. The effect the background looks moldy. :|
• Edit G is an entirely new nipple and thighs edit. The lines are thick and wobbly as hell. Like, maybe drew it with a mouse. The nipples can best be described as ((o)) I wish I was kidding.
• Edit H is another unique nipple edit, only the lines are slightly less shaky and they've got nipples that are basically a circle and not much else.

In each of these, they've redrawn a large portion of the image and it shows. Tom's style is gone from about knee to chin and that's not pleasant to look at.

The guidelines say Edits of images need to be at least on the same level of quality as the original. Which basically means, it needs to look like Tom drew it.

So, yeah, I'd delete all of those.

The good reaction to criticism from them would have been something along the lines of, "Oops, yeah, you know what, I did overstep a bit. But I think we the admin team should probably look closer at our ruling system for edits going forward, some of this stuff is really low quality and is clogging or system tickets with reports. We might be taking some action against similar edits in the future."

Hah! What's really funny is you're describing a way harsher situation. So, okay. As I think I covered above, he didn't over step. Regardless of effort, they weren't "good enough" for our standards.
As for taking a closer look at our ruling system, we've actually been doing that for the last... 4 or so years. This is why we HAVE rules about low quality edits. Once upon a time we basically allowed almost anything and it wasn't great. We put in quality standards. We decided that human-only art wasn't good for us. We've been continually reworking things for years. We decided that edits were generally not adding much to the site, while adding a lot of stress. Not just twokinds specifically, but in general, and we've been adjusting our standards as we go.

So yeah, we've been taking a closer look at our ruling system.

That said, we define "taking action" as giving a record, like they'd broken a rule, and we generally don't do that. Heck, there's a formula that determines how many pictures you can upload at a time, and usually, if it drops to 0, we'll bump it back up to 10 if you ask nicely. And if you're a real jerk who is purposefully abusing the system, we may remove your upload limit, but not just because you uploaded a post we didn't like.

but if you meant action like, changing our standards, or our rulings, that's... what we've done, y'know?

But instead, he went and made an even worse decision by nuking all edits and blanket banning everything in retaliation for being called out for his poor performance.

Except it isn't what happened. I mean, again, this happened 2 years, not last sunday when everyone was asleep. This was not a spur of the moment choice, it was the result of several years of conversation and debate among a great many people. Just suddenly, for whatever reason, this guy is coming in here acting like it's a new event that JUST happened, making everyone feel like this is NEW, when really, EDITS of Tom's work have been DNP for years.

The one thing that could have saved the e6 admin team here would have been the others coming in and either correcting his decision for him and either putting him on probation, or outright removing him. Perhaps if you were really concerned with "low quality" edits you could have made a similar announcement as before regarding rule adjustments going forward.

Hm. Okay, well. The entire staff at the time were in agreement that on this, and are still.

The one who "let his biases get in the way"is the lead admin of the website. So, we can't really put him on probation, even if there was reason.

But instead I see other admin coming in and just blindly defending their poor decisions to single out and punish an entire community because one member demanded accountability from a bad admin.

Well, I mean. I kinda thought I was trying to help out by stepping in and talking about why this happen. Fight the misinformation a bit.

And responding to feedback and suggestions with things like "This isn't a democracy" and "Vote's will never influence our processes" is a REALLY bad sign.

This is not a democracy. If it was, there would have been a time that people would have wanted gay stuff to be banned. And any form of trans, herm, or intersex character. People really, REALLY wanted to ban MLP when it came out. These days, people want to ban gore, cub, scat, watersports, etc. They want to ban stuff supporting whatever political affiliation disagrees with them. We have some people who'd ban all non-furries, and you'd have some accept any art, regardless of quality, and others would insist that we delete more.

So. we have a blacklist. We have a pretty basic set of standards: Non-human. Well crafted. Not from this small list of artists. As good a quality as you can manage please, without stealing from the artist (paycontent) or artifically upscaling. If you are going to edit, edit it well.

You have clearly demonstrated to me that you are not an administration team working to curate the best possible site experience for your users. You are more or less just a gang prioritizing [...]

Look. You may not have a good impression, and that's fine. You can have your opinion. but forgive me if I don't take your opinion as the voice of authority, considering you seem to be an extremely casual user.

(why are you here anyway? You broke a 11 years streak of not commenting!)

There are plenty of other websites! You can start your own! Booru.org makes it easy. Lots of free software too. Run it how you want to. Go make a democracy :) I would be very interested to see how it goes.

And one last note before I go. Of COURSE most of the TK edits are only "low effort." (...) Frozen dinners are "low effort" but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to be on store shelves just because you COULD potentially spend years honing your chef skills to spend hours a day making "High Effort" food(...)

I don't know how to emphasize to you that these are closer in effort to when an 11 year old boy first realizes that he can draw nipples and no one can stop him. There are some great edits out there. most of them are not. these are a lot closer to 'I put packing peanuts in a bowl and poured milk on them.

crehvan said:
Nut job who effectively tried to claim Flora as his own character and was fairly aggro regarding it, iirc, apparently stalked Tom at conventions, and basically attempted to copy Twokinds, but with his own character in place of trace.

Yeah, he was super, creepily obsessed with Flora. I imagine the dude had a shrine to her. Like his whole place, just covered in Flora stuff. And his art and stories were mega-cringe. From what I heard, it got so bad that Tom eventually banned him from the forums. I don't know if this was before or after the stalking stuff.

notmenotyou said:

That edit is basically a textbook example of why we've established the blanket ban. Look at the head of Nora, it's easy to see that it's been taken from a low quality jpg file and just blown up to fit due to how soft the lines are and the amount of jpg artifacts in it. That also means both Nora and Reni were taken from existing images, cropped, moved into position, and the only new things being drawn in are a blush on Reni, the mouth being turned into a grin (with a tooth and mouth line added that doesn't even match the shade of black of the rest of the mouth), Reni's hand (which is actually pretty okay but could be better to follow Fischbach's style more closely), Reni's tail (that has highlighting on the linework but completely flat colors unlike Nora's horns right besides it), and some pussy juice lines. That's it, that's the entirety of the effort.
If you look at the place where Reni's tongue intersects the jaw you can also clearly tell they didn't clean the lines up properly because of the kink that's there. But really what breaks it for us is the badly shopped in head of Nora and how the jaw was handled. The hand is pretty okay and I had to check closely if it was also shopped in or drawn in, if the editor had actually gone ahead and also drawn Nora's head in it would have been much more convincing.
But as it stands, no, that's literally what our actual edit rules disallow that far precede the ban on TwoKinds edits.

Hell, if the person that made the edit uses it as a basis to reference and draw their own version in their own style from the "ground up" we'd probably approve that in a heartbeat as original fan art.

Thanks for your time to give me a proper explanation. If I now look closely I see some artifacts there on that head... still call me biased or maybe my low res screen has some Vaseline on it,
Maybe the fact that I'm not able of doing edits like this, at least without learning multiple hours how to use the proper tools to do something like this, might maybe a factor in that too.
Still even with all that flaws you mentioned I just like this edit as it is, that's just my personal preference.
I guess, I'm just a caveman on a PC :P

snowwolf said:
Hm. Okay, well. The entire staff at the time were in agreement that on this, and are still.

The one who "let his biases get in the way"is the lead admin of the website. So, we can't really put him on probation, even if there was reason.

In the end this is what it comes down to. It's your website, and you guys can run it however you want. But the reality of the situation is that a big chunk of the user-base was angry with that decision, and will probably continue to be angry with it going forward.

frederik said:
In the end this is what it comes down to. It's your website, and you guys can run it however you want. But the reality of the situation is that a big chunk of the user-base was angry with that decision, and will probably continue to be angry with it going forward.

Wouldn't this decision have only effected the Twokinds fans? Just based on tags, if there are 4.6k things labeled "twokinds", but a little under 2 million labeled as "mammal", its hard to argue one decision with twokinds art would bothee a "big chunk" of the user-base

snowwolf said:
Honestly, because it's really hard to find good staff members. There are a lot of people who'd like the clout, and think they'd enjoy the work, but there are a lot of people who'll accept responsibilities and then just... burn out after a week or two.

Like, I work on an entirely unrelated volunteer project website-in-the-making, and of the.. 120? people who's said "I'll help!" only like... 4 have stuck around reliably. so many piddle out 48 hours later, or a few weeks later.

Which is why we usually look for people who've already shown they WANT to spend time on the website and have a good grasp of the rules, and tagging and stuff like that. and approving pictures is a lot more than just "this is a pretty picture"... it's why we tell anyone who asks about being a staff member to participate on the site, uploading good posts, tagging good tags, providing general over all positive contributions to the website... and.. there really arne't that many people who've already shown that dedication. Even when we talk about lowering our high bars... generally speaking, most people are either running at "super casual" or "this is my hyperfocus" without a lot of middle ground. And being hyperfocused isn't enough to make someone GOOD at the things we need someone to be good at.

I mean, I don't feel comfortable touching approvals, because they are so complicated.

and none of that guarantees that they're not hotheaded and otherwise poorly suited to be in a position of power. Believe me, we've been there and done that before, yet peopel call us power hungry idiots because we enforce the rules.

we're always talking about ways to find new staff, but they don't grow on trees :(

Not really? We have put other artists on the dnp list because they were repeatedly problematic. We don't HAVE to allow every artist on the website.

And, it's not that we say "only twokind edits are not allowed" -- we say that in general, twokind edits have proven to be poor quality. We didn't retroactively delete any twokind edits. Whenever we decide something isn't allowed anymore, we say that the old posts are grandfathered in. they're an exception to the new rule, y'know?

Of all of the twokinds edits uploaded, 26 were of high enough quality to keep around. Tha'ts about 4.5%. of all twokind edits.

And we have already LONG had the rule saying that edits have to be high quality. Editing someone else's artwork to be gray and not black isn't high quality. I can do that in 2 minutes in an art program. Adding little c shapes for nipples? not high effort. these aren't new rules.

Now add in the fact that when we delete the hyper-balls-edit, maybe one or two peopel complain. but any two kinds edit, even ones that were literally "I copy and pasted flora's head on top of this random picture's body" had an uproar about them.

so it's not just 600 posts, It's 600 posts, it's 600 people howling for blood because of FLORANIPPLES, it's 600 people angry because we didn't allow them to upload edits of art, from an artist who doesn't want edits. it's also 600 times we have to go hunting to try and figure out if this picture violates our rules, because someone has--again--decided to get around dnp by just not tagging the artist.

It's not about overwork. It's about the fact that we got tired of the repeated abuse that the fan base hurled at us because they really LIKED that edit.

We get well over 1000 posts a day. if you assume 30 seconds each, split amount 3 staff members, that's nearly 3 hours of work a day. Except they don't take 30 seconds. you might snap out some faster, but then you get one that makes you stop for 10 mintues to try and figure out if it is, or is not okay. also there aren't usually 3 staff memebrs who can devote 3 hours of each day to this.

So like, let me be blunt: If you ran a shop, and this family kept coming in, and their kids always pulled shit off the shelves and made a mess, 9 times out of 10.... maybe you'd tell them they can't shop here anymore.

If people would have been more reasonable about us deleting things that violate our already established rules--which, let me emphasize, we have only ever enforced our rules that we apply to everything equally-- then maybe twokinds edits would still be allowed. But instead, we STILL have groups of people who think that if they don't tag edit, their color shift of a popular artist's work won't be detected.

Ah, let me correct you. This isn't a job. We don't get paid. We are doing this because we love the website and want to make it a better place. I wish we got money for this. I'd love to be able to justify spending more time here, but this is my free time. Right now, my dinner is getting cold and my friends are waiting for me to come play a game together, but I"m here, typing to you, because I feel a responsibility for this place I volunteer at.

As for the second part of your question: you're welcome to suggest peopel you think might make good staff members. are you volunteering? do you have a couple of hours a day to devote to all this?

To be honest, if i had the time to do so, I would volunteer to do the approval process even if I had to do it entirely by myself if it meant edits could come back, i honestly wouldn’t care how long it took to go through them, but unfortunately i don’t have the time due to having to take care of my dad while he recovers from surgery every Monday through Wednesday

crehvan said:
Wouldn't this decision have only effected the Twokinds fans? Just based on tags, if there are 4.6k things labeled "twokinds", but a little under 2 million labeled as "mammal", its hard to argue one decision with twokinds art would bothee a "big chunk" of the user-base

I would apologize for acknowledging that the comic I'm a fan of makes up a quarter of a percent of the art on the site, but I know there's art *without* mammals in it, so that'd actually still be too big of a percent to be accurate xp

frederik said:
In the end this is what it comes down to. It's your website, and you guys can run it however you want. But the reality of the situation is that a big chunk of the user-base was angry with that decision, and will probably continue to be angry with it going forward.

Well, I wasn't as active 2 years ago, so let me swing into the forums...

• thread asking how new posts are approved --because their twokinds edit was--oh boy, it wasn't good. I'll save us all the review, but in it, numerous staff members talk about how they've been cracking down on edits in general, to which the response is generally positive, except from the guy who posted the edit.
• discussion of what's on people's blocklists.
• a couple aliases
• a thread requesting the undeletion of... oh, a Study Partners set of pages. Twokinds is mentioned as an example of how we handle webcomic postings.
• a thread talking about the worst comics they've read (sorry! another person came in and said that they got deeper in and liked it!)
• thread talking about casual nudity

That's about it, in the two-year-ago range. Even if I go back further, everything is an alias or implication
If I look more recently:

• A thread where someone uploaded "crappy looking artwork" and tagged it as two kinds and someone reported it as a bug that they couldn't remove the twokinds tag. When they had it explained to them how implications work, they got irritated that the staff did not verify that the tagged characters did not look like the characters involved before they approved it.
• someone wanting to post the entirety of twokinds--oh this is a 9 year old thread that was accidentally bumped.

The only thread I can find about the conditional DNP is one started 8 months ago... where in someone asks politely if there's a chance of lifting that, because it wasn't banned before and you accepted OTHER non-twokinds edits, already? Which is kinda funny, because they listed 4 pictures and two of them have been deleted by artist request because they did not want edits of their artwork around. Anyway, the thread got zero traction. One reply, from a Janitor.

Okay let's look at Discord.
.... yeah, basically nothing. 225 results, yes, but mostly people sharing artwork they linked, or talking about how they do or don't like the comic, and some struggle because of people tracing other's art to produce twokinds fanart. As well as exploding janitor's mailbox and making their job more difficult.

So. Maybe the twokinds community was upset, and that's valid but the e621 user base at large generally seemed to have viewed this as a positive thing.

May I suggest y'all start a twokinds booru or something? Please? I want you guys to have your content and be happy. I just don't want it here.

ottovonbismarck2643 said:
To be honest, if i had the time to do so, I would volunteer to do the approval process even if I had to do it entirely by myself if it meant edits could come back, i honestly wouldn’t care how long it took to go through them, but unfortunately i don’t have the time due to having to take care of my dad while he recovers from surgery every Monday through Wednesday

Of course. family comes first. My best wishes to your father <3

crehvan said:
I would apologize for acknowledging that the comic I'm a fan of makes up a quarter of a percent of the art on the site, but I know there's art *without* mammals in it, so that'd actually still be too big of a percent to be accurate xp

We had our 3 millionth post the other day :D post #3000000

Twokinds, for the record, lands somewhere below splatoon and Japamese mythology, but above pokemon mystery dungeon. it's closest size neighbors are marvel, and Retsuko, though fakemon is pretty close also.

SirCumsize said:
Thank goodness someone else slapped on the lol_comments tag.

that was me 🧡

At what % of edited can an edit be submitted?

seems Completly Suss

delta_wolfkin said:
This got very messy very quickly

Yeah, so, remember when I said it was messy? I hadn't seen anything

amogus sus when imposter is sus

notmenotyou said:
I'd rather hand the link out myself due to that mega account also hosting another public file I'd rather not lose access to for others, just in case someone decides to report it to hell and back to get the account suspended. Though really the idea was someone dumps the contents of the archive on one of the other sites where people congregate and makes it superfluous entirely.

Nope, sent you a dmail with a link, feel free to upload those to other sides if you'd like.

So about that trojan, the file still safe then?

snowwolf said:
Except it isn't what happened. I mean, again, this happened 2 years, not last sunday when everyone was asleep. This was not a spur of the moment choice, it was the result of several years of conversation and debate among a great many people. Just suddenly, for whatever reason, this guy is coming in here acting like it's a new event that JUST happened, making everyone feel like this is NEW, when really, EDITS of Tom's work have been DNP for years.

The issue never got any closure for the most part. Most discussion and counterargument happened on edits uploaded here which then got deleted, and so the editing communities views festered and now its bubbling over again

snowwolf said:
May I suggest y'all start a twokinds booru or something? Please? I want you guys to have your content and be happy. I just don't want it here.

There where attempts, but like i said earlier in this comment thread. There where issues with e6 being the centralized place, and how hard it is to set up a new centralized place.
No one wants to put in the effort (all that tagging....) just for it to not take off.
And so now the editing community is alot smaller, and hangs out in only a few places with far less organization than before.

Maybe if more warning was given, if the community was given time to prepare and some level of guidance given, an agreed centralized place would have been possible to set up. But instead the community pannicd and balkanized with no centralization to this day.

notmenotyou said:
Heavily depends on the skill of the edit performed and how much it changes the submission. Some smaller, more skillful edits will have a bigger impact than some easy, sweeping changes might have. Using bucket fill to change a solid background color into another isn't going to fly, subtly reworking a face to fix broken anatomy might be enough. It always depends on what changes and how.

Wait so does this mean "good" edits are no longer DNP then or...?
Again, from earlier in this thread:

blackandwhitekat said:
Okay, a good chunk of Seff's edits, and a good chunk of JMdoc's edits/redraws are both by consensus pretty good. There's more, but lets just go with the "best" examples for the sake of argument.
https://imgur.com/a/WOaqIvt - a few of Seffs ones
https://www.furaffinity.net/gallery/jmadoc/folder/157676/twokinds

Wow, what a read these comments are.

snowwolf said:
Ah, okay. here's a misconception.

No one ever said that Tom asked to be on the do not post list.

While no one explicitly said it, the way the avoid posting list is presented, i think, is kind of misleading in that regard. Especially after reading in point 4. "We do not give DNP status to anybody except artists or publishers.", i was under the impression, that artist or publishers asking to be added were the only way to end up on that list.
In fact, i too was wondering for quite a while why Tom would ask to be added there, when he usually is so permissive with his art.

In cases like this i'd appreciate a little clarification directly on the list, that the artist did not ask to be added. That would also avoid confusion on other sites/boards as to whether an artist does allow edits of their work or not.

Then i don't understand what you gain by adding Tom to the list. That list has a point 3., explaining how to still post stuff on the list, when you can prove you have permission to do so.
Well, Tom does in fact give said permission. So, by your own rules, any edit of Tom's work would still be permitted to be posted, as long as it references Tom's license in the description.
Of course, you still can moderate them, and delete them for bad quality, or whatever. But you still have to do the work. That blanket ban does not have any effect, except confusing some and making others angry.

snowwolf said:
anyway, Tom sounds like a great person. What a lovely policy to have :)

Yes, i think so too. :)

notmenotyou said:
So far less than 10 people have cared enough to ask for a copy of the deleted edits

I wasn't aware, i'm permitted to ask for them - which i hereby do.

On most other sites it is considered at least bad form, if not outright against the rules, to ask for deleted content. So, unless i find a statement explicitly permitting me to ask for it, i usually don't.

I have a question, NMNY. Why is the dancing kathrin animation forbidden here?

This one: https://gfycat.com/heftytornamericanquarterhorse

It's not an edit, it's a hand drawn animation. Kathrin isn't forbidden. Shotguns aren't forbidden. WIP sketch/animatic/storyboards of animations aren't forbidden, let alone a completed and coloured animation like this one. Why is this animation removed whenever it's posted? Because "It was removed before" isn't an answer.

notmenotyou said:
Multiple other people haven't found a trojan so it should still be clean.

No, the DNP for TwoKinds edits is still in effect because none of them clear our bar, including Seff's.

Tough crowd to please, you lot must be fun at parties.

For some weird reason i like lesbian and gay twokinds ships
I dont know why

mta_2_train said:
For some weird reason i like lesbian and gay twokinds ships
I dont know why

Easy. Why not?

wiyomi said:
I have a question, NMNY. Why is the dancing kathrin animation forbidden here?

This one: https://gfycat.com/heftytornamericanquarterhorse

It's not an edit, it's a hand drawn animation. Kathrin isn't forbidden. Shotguns aren't forbidden. WIP sketch/animatic/storyboards of animations aren't forbidden, let alone a completed and coloured animation like this one. Why is this animation removed whenever it's posted? Because "It was removed before" isn't an answer.

https://e621.net/posts/2270485?q=parent%3A2270485+status%3Aany
hey I was right, this artist is the origin of shotgun chungus

I still think this is the reason
https://e621.net/posts/2280687#comment-5012940

Also no one knew what was original or who the artist was when this gif first came out.

this artist is a shitpost, I enjoy that.

Jannies

They do it for free

notmenotyou said:
I specifically offered that in the takedown reason linked in all deletion reasons for those edits that got cleaned up. Check your dmails.

Because 4 other versions with clear troll content shopped into it were posted days before that gfycat and the artist's tweet went up on June 3rd, and the very first upload looked like someone made a preview on a Windows 95 machine with terrible file quality and some discord link shopped into it.

I take it the version you linked there is the actual artist's release of the animation? If so we're more than happy to restore that one, but the rest will stay deleted.

it appears the only two that are legit are the cheese grater one *6268* they gotta know, and the blank sign one. I think it's possible the artist was associated with that discord, but who knows
https://twitter.com/YttriumNSFW/status/1268222782388744193?s=20

notmenotyou said:
Because 4 other versions with clear troll content shopped into it were posted days before that gfycat and the artist's tweet went up on June 3rd, and the very first upload looked like someone made a preview on a Windows 95 machine with terrible file quality and some discord link shopped into it.

I take it the version you linked there is the actual artist's release of the animation? If so we're more than happy to restore that one, but the rest will stay deleted.

No they weren't you lying hypocrite.

The first one was posted with a discord link and some mild artifacting, hardly rule breaking content.
You removed it based on "poor quality", despite the fact that you still allowed people to upload shitty flash animations that were so hypercompressed they were practically pixel art.

The second one was re-uploaded in much higher quality without the link and you removed it again with the excuse of "It was removed before".
Which THEN prompted people to retaliate by uploading troll versions of it.

Dude, just admit that you're a hack of an admin who approves/flags things based on your own personal biases instead of the actual rules.

ITT: salt
post #355724

visionsinfire said:
No they weren't you lying hypocrite.

The first one was posted with a discord link and some mild artifacting, hardly rule breaking content.
You removed it based on "poor quality", despite the fact that you still allowed people to upload shitty flash animations that were so hypercompressed they were practically pixel art.

The second one was re-uploaded in much higher quality without the link and you removed it again with the excuse of "It was removed before".
Which THEN prompted people to retaliate by uploading troll versions of it.

Dude, just admit that you're a hack of an admin who approves/flags things based on your own personal biases instead of the actual rules.

"Mild artifacting", sure lets call it that and not the hilariously bad conversion it actually is where there are massive ghost frames. The second one also has similar, but less apparent ghost frames, likely because whoever made it didn't properly sync the gif's playback with the resulting video FPS.
And it counts as previously deleted because just slapping an animated rainbow background and a song over it didn't fix the initial issues.

Also neither of those two images were deleted by me, something that's trivial to check ([1] & [2]) but you didn't even bother doing that, either.

notmenotyou said:
"Mild artifacting", sure lets call it that and not the hilariously bad conversion it actually is where there are massive ghost frames. The second one also has similar, but less apparent ghost frames, likely because whoever made it didn't properly sync the gif's playback with the resulting video FPS.
And it counts as previously deleted because just slapping an animated rainbow background and a song over it didn't fix the initial issues.

Also neither of those two images were deleted by me, something that's trivial to check ([1] & [2]) but you didn't even bother doing that, either.

"Massive ghost frames"
Oh no, that mildly noticeable ghosting that you can hardly see without analysing it frame by frame, what ever will we do, it's the end of the fucking world as we know it.

And I wasn't talking about the rainbow background version, which was also uploaded in retaliation for it getting deleted.
I was talking about the plain blue background version that was uploaded, and promptly deleted despite fixing all of said issues.

Also does it matter?
You're all just as bad as each other, a bunch of arrogant assholes all defending each others shitty actions in your pathetic little frat boy club.

visionsinfire said:
"Massive ghost frames"
Oh no, that mildly noticeable ghosting that you can hardly see without analysing it frame by frame, what ever will we do, it's the end of the fucking world as we know it.

And I wasn't talking about the rainbow background version, which was also uploaded in retaliation for it getting deleted.
I was talking about the plain blue background version that was uploaded, and promptly deleted despite fixing all of said issues.

Also does it matter?
You're all just as bad as each other, a bunch of arrogant assholes all defending each others shitty actions in your pathetic little frat boy club.

Pfft. Dawg that original gif upload looks like trash. Nothing about deleting that seems even remotely out of line, imo xp

visionsinfire said:
"Massive ghost frames"
Oh no, that mildly noticeable ghosting that you can hardly see without analysing it frame by frame, what ever will we do, it's the end of the fucking world as we know it.

And I wasn't talking about the rainbow background version, which was also uploaded in retaliation for it getting deleted.
I was talking about the plain blue background version that was uploaded, and promptly deleted despite fixing all of said issues.

Also does it matter?
You're all just as bad as each other, a bunch of arrogant assholes all defending each others shitty actions in your pathetic little frat boy club.

You should have mentioned that you meant the blue one then because I have the habit of assuming people say what they mean and "second" has a very clear numerical definition that isn't matched by the blue one having been the fifth or sixth upload in total. The first blue one appears to have been from Twitter which means it was still compressed and thus not as good as we'd like, but at that point with all the previous versions being just outright bad or troll edits we simply didn't have any sort of reason to assume it was anything but another poor troll attempt.

Now that Wyiomi clarified that it's the intended version and they uploaded the version from FA that's pristine I've approved it. Really weird how not behaving like a potential troublemaker will mean we're more than glad to listen and work with people. But if people try to skirt around our rules we will bring the hammer down as often as it's requested.

notmenotyou said:
You should have mentioned that you meant the blue one then because I have the habit of assuming people say what they mean and "second" has a very clear numerical definition that isn't matched by the blue one having been the fifth or sixth upload in total. The first blue one appears to have been from Twitter which means it was still compressed and thus not as good as we'd like, but at that point with all the previous versions being just outright bad or troll edits we simply didn't have any sort of reason to assume it was anything but another poor troll attempt.

Now that Wyiomi clarified that it's the intended version and they uploaded the version from FA that's pristine I've approved it. Really weird how not behaving like a potential troublemaker will mean we're more than glad to listen and work with people. But if people try to skirt around our rules we will bring the hammer down as often as it's requested.

Dude, the post was the original file, that was ALSO uploaded to Twitter.
Saying "well it was PROBABLY still compressed" is a pathetic excuse.

The only reason you let it get approved this time is because so many people called you out on it.

Also you have got to be one of the most condescending, grating people I have ever had the displeasure of taking to.

visionsinfire said:
Dude, the post was the original file, that was ALSO uploaded to Twitter.
Saying "well it was PROBABLY still compressed" is a pathetic excuse.

The only reason you let it get approved this time is because so many people called you out on it.

Also you have got to be one of the most condescending, grating people I have ever had the displeasure of taking to.

Did anyone take the time to express that it was, in fact, the proper version, at the time? Cause I've seen take down marks on twokinds stuff removed after it was clarified

A while ago, we hit the point that there isn't going to be any listening. Just people who like yelling, feeling like they're fighting the good fight. Nothing we say can possibly be right. We'll see ourselves out.

knotty_curls said:
A while ago, we hit the point that there isn't going to be any listening. Just people who like yelling, feeling like they're fighting the good fight. Nothing we say can possibly be right. We'll see ourselves out.

The embodiment of peak un-selfawareness.

You lot refusing to listen to your userbase and treating them with complete contempt is the reason it's gotten to this point in the first place.

Peace out, asshole.

visionsinfire said:
Dude, the post was the original file, that was ALSO uploaded to Twitter.
Saying "well it was PROBABLY still compressed" is a pathetic excuse.

The only reason you let it get approved this time is because so many people called you out on it.

Also you have got to be one of the most condescending, grating people I have ever had the displeasure of taking to.

All uploads to Twitter get compressed, they added that with an update a few years back. Compare the twitter and FA version for yourself if you don't believe me. The version that got uploaded yesterday is objectively superior than the old one and identical to the one on FA, and that's the only reason it got approved. The last time peer pressure worked here was when Arcturus gave the site away.

crehvan said:
Did anyone take the time to express that it was, in fact, the proper version, at the time? Cause I've seen take down marks on twokinds stuff removed after it was clarified

Neither description nor comments mentioned it on the original upload, and with Twitter always compressing media for a few years now it could never have been the actual original. Unlike the FA version that got uploaded now.

I was around during the initial posting of the shotgun kat meme, a rough summary of the events that transpired:
an extremely crunchy gif of kat got uploaded with, no source, no artist tags, not many tags, and a description link to a discord that the comments said, was toxic af. Repeat the process of every subsequent uploader of the gif neglecting to even do the artist the service of tagging who they are, or providing a source. All the sources, artist tags added mostly came at much later date from other users updating tags on neglected posts. What was from the artist, and what was an edit was completely up in the air

marcus_furelius said:
Based, get fucked NMNY, you pathetic fatass hack of a janny

That wasn't very stoic.

snowwolf said:
It never fails to fascinate me how many people think being ragefilled and hurling insults around is somehow going to convince people that they're right.

I mean, I figured this out when I was about 6 and I learned that screaming "I hate you mommy! YOU'RE MEAN." didn't really help me in any way. Neither does having bawling meltdowns in the middle of the grocery store.

And yet you chose to become a jannie

"notmenotyou":

So far less than 10 people have cared enough to ask for a copy of the deleted edits,

Holy shit, you can do that? I would have asked for them *years ago* but had just assumed they were gone for good. I sometimes get in the mood and scour the net searching for some of them that used to be here, but there are a few that I think never got uploaded anywhere but e6. Send them all my way please lol

Real talk though, and forgive me as I didn't read through all the comments so it's likely repeated, but putting Tom on the DNP list dispite his stance on people using his IP/art being the exact opposite just seems completely wrong. Frankly, if the edits aren't up to the quality standards this site demands, but the fan base doesn't care, then why should you? Yeah the super low effort "I drew a line and now it's a vagina" edits were dumb, but it didn't bother me any. What does bother me is that because the mods apparently think it's too much work to police the crappy edits, they just delete them all. Throwing the baby out with the bath water much?

It just bums me out because sure, TK isn't exactly obscure, but it doesn't get the high profile attention from big name artists like the more mainstream IPs, so good art isn't exactly flooding in. So to me, a pic by Tom used as a base with an edit made to make it lewd is often better than a mediocre piece done from scratch, even if the edited bits aren't the highest quality on the planet.

At the end of the day I understand that there are rules, and they need to be followed. But "high quality" is just so subjective, and the mod in charge seems to have a waaaay higher standard than the people that actually want to see this content. It just seems completely backwards to me. Something needs to change. If it were up to me Tom would be removed from the DNP list, the edits that were removed would be reviewed again by a fresh set of eyes, and the ones that aren't laughably low effort would be re-posted. I'm sure there are no shortage of users in this comment section that would step up to help. Hell, I'll look through 600 lewd TK edits and pull out the ones I think are worth posting, sounds like a fun evening haha. I'll even set aside my bias on kinks (though that may require some liquor to get through lol)

6620 said:
Holy shit, you can do that? I would have asked for them *years ago* but had just assumed they were gone for good. I sometimes get in the mood and scour the net searching for some of them that used to be here, but there are a few that I think never got uploaded anywhere but e6. Send them all my way please lol

Real talk though, and forgive me as I didn't read through all the comments so it's likely repeated, but putting Tom on the DNP list dispite his stance on people using his IP/art being the exact opposite just seems completely wrong. Frankly, if the edits aren't up to the quality standards this site demands, but the fan base doesn't care, then why should you? Yeah the super low effort "I drew a line and now it's a vagina" edits were dumb, but it didn't bother me any. What does bother me is that because the mods apparently think it's too much work to police the crappy edits, they just delete them all. Throwing the baby out with the bath water much?

It just bums me out because sure, TK isn't exactly obscure, but it doesn't get the high profile attention from big name artists like the more mainstream IPs, so good art isn't exactly flooding in. So to me, a pic by Tom used as a base with an edit made to make it lewd is often better than a mediocre piece done from scratch, even if the edited bits aren't the highest quality on the planet.

At the end of the day I understand that there are rules, and they need to be followed. But "high quality" is just so subjective, and the mod in charge seems to have a waaaay higher standard than the people that actually want to see this content. It just seems completely backwards to me. Something needs to change. If it were up to me Tom would be removed from the DNP list, the edits that were removed would be reviewed again by a fresh set of eyes, and the ones that aren't laughably low effort would be re-posted. I'm sure there are no shortage of users in this comment section that would step up to help. Hell, I'll look through 600 lewd TK edits and pull out the ones I think are worth posting, sounds like a fun evening haha. I'll even set aside my bias on kinks (though that may require some liquor to get through lol)

100% agree. Mods seam pretty out of touch with the small community they kneecapped in the process, and don't seam to realize because they aren't part of it.

I know that this argument is practically over, but I can't help but feel like it's sort of pathetic in a way that pretty much every major mod came out of the woodworks to justify themselves rather than trying to listen to their userbase, even for a second. They fled once the critique started to get more moody instead of trying to understand why said criticism was getting this way. The mods are incredibly out of touch with their audience, and it makes me sad knowing that they're killing their own website by refusing to listen to what their userbase wants.

Either way. despite how I felt about this thread, reading this shitshow was still pretty funny and got me some laughs
(I'm probably getting banned aren't I?)

The longer this goes, the more it gives me the same vibe as the 19 and 20yos I refuse to sell alcohol to. Very confident that I'm nothing more than a malicious villain, but are actually just whining that I won't bend rules for them in particular

crehvan said:
The longer this goes, the more it gives me the same vibe as the 19 and 20yos I refuse to sell alcohol to. Very confident that I'm nothing more than a malicious villain, but are actually just whining that I won't bend rules for them in particular

That's not a great comparison. Unlike age, the rule about posts being "high quality" is entirely subjective. Imagine if you only sold alcohol to people who *looked* 21. In this case it would be like if to you the only people who look 21 have some grey in their hair lol

6620 said:
That's not a great comparison. Unlike age, the rule about posts being "high quality" is entirely subjective. Imagine if you only sold alcohol to people who *looked* 21. In this case it would be like if to you the only people who look 21 have some grey in their hair lol

I get to call out fakes. I've gotten good at it. This means I get to make a subjective claim about how "high quality" or "real" an ID looks. The rule may be different, but the vibe from the people is the same. Lotta anger when told no.

crehvan said:
I get to call out fakes. I've gotten good at it. This means I get to make a subjective claim about how "high quality" or "real" an ID looks. The rule may be different, but the vibe from the people is the same. Lotta anger when told no.

Same situation with the drunks that I get make a subjective decision about when they've had too much that day, regardless of how outwardly drunk they may appear at that moment.

crehvan said:
I get to call out fakes. I've gotten good at it. This means I get to make a subjective claim about how "high quality" or "real" an ID looks. The rule may be different, but the vibe from the people is the same. Lotta anger when told no.

You missed the main point of my reply though. The takeaway from reading some of the replies from the mods is that even the highest quality edits the TK Fandom has ever gotten aren't good enough for the mods because their standards are so damn high for what is considered "high quality". Imagine if you turned down a customer because their ID was dirty. That's basically the level of scrutiny these edits get apparently.

The ID comparison still isn't even a very good one because an ID is either real or its not. It's not a matter of it being good enough to pass your personal standards, it's just if you think it's fake you turn it down. The approval process is entirely subjective based off what the mod thinks is good. A better comparison to your job would be if you only served people you thought were attractive enough. Oh, and you won't accept anything less than a 10/10 lol.

So first off, thanks NMNY I got the edits.

That said, it took longer to unzip the folder than it did to go through all 315 pictures. And personally, I think that's about as much scrutiny as these edits need to get.

Anyways, just as I remembered there were quite a lot of poor quality nipple and vagina edits. The ones I had forgotten about were the large number of recolor/face swaps, and those were all pretty much just as bad. There was a lot in there that just looked like a pic from Tom, no edit at all, so I will assume it was either something so minor I didn't even notice it, or it was a resolution based thing. Either way all of those I totally understand being removed from e6.

However, there are quite a few that I would really like to know the justification for why they aren't "high quality" enough to be hosted here. I will use the edit of Flora on the bed (this one https://e621.net/posts/899314?q=flora_%28twokinds%29) as an example. The artist who did the edit had to move the bedsheets down and then draw Flora's lower body from scratch, as well as the small details in the bed itself. Without seeing the original, you could be forgiven for thinking it was just a vagina edit, but its not. There was some serious work that went into that edit, and it looks fantastic. The art style matches the original, nothing looks lower-res than anything else.... seriously, what is wrong with that edit? And we all know already that Tom does not care that people edit his art, so that's not the reason either.

Also, I personally believe all of the ones Seff did are high quality enough to be posted, as well as several other simple nipple edits that are in there. I understand that the art style might not be an exact perfect match to the original, but come on, this isn't some high class art gallery. This is a website where horny furries come for fapping material, and trust me no one cares that the brush strokes aren't exactly the same as the original or whatever the fuck the issue is when they are just looking to get off. And yeah I know it's not just TK edits that are held to these standards, but I don't care. Your standards are too high. It's smut, not a museum piece. Compared to some of the scratch made smut on this site, the Seff edits are leaps and bounds better overall, but because you (the mod whith the ultra high standards) can tell the dick isn't original, we (the fans who actually want to see the content) get nothing.

On a personal note, I would rather the TK tag be *flooded* with absolute garbage that I could sift through using any of the available tools the site give me if it meant I can still find the ones I consider to be good, than to have no edits at all like we do now. Your comment NMNY about there not being any baby in the bath water, but just a crudly painted doll: ever heard the phrase "a face only a mother could love"? Just because you think it's crap, even if the rules you have in place say it's crap, if the users of the site still want to see it then you and the rules are wrong and system needs to be changed.

notmenotyou said:
Sent, check your dmails.

Oh wow, I had no idea there was an archive like that. I noticed the edits being gone one day and figured that there was no way for me to find them again. May I have the link too, please?

And yeah, I also hope that the policy changes one day. I really enjoyed the edits back then, and it sucks not having an easily accessible place for them anymore. Right now I regularly go back and check descriptions of images to see if links to edits appeared, but as you can imagine that's really cumbersome.

Could I also have the link?

Cheers, NMNY, on backtracking on saying you'd approve the animation (https://e621.net/posts/3013599) if it was the original, letting millcore deleting it, then deleting your comments here where you said you'd approve it but forgetting to delete the quote replies where your message still appears (they were just downvoted to oblivion) Cheers!

notmenotyou said:

I take it the version you linked there is the actual artist's release of the animation? If so we're more than happy to restore that one, but the rest will stay deleted.

>The gif's fucking deleted again

Jesus Christ you absolute mongoloids can't even pretend to do something right in this situation. I know mentally disabled people who are less retarded than you lot, it's actually fucking astounding

dieneseis said:
Cheers, NMNY, on backtracking on saying you'd approve the animation (https://e621.net/posts/3013599) if it was the original, letting milcore deleting it, then revising history by deleting your comments here where you said you'd approve it but forgetting to delete the quote replies where your message still appears https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492852856949309443/908129380600000559/unknown.png Cheers!

To quote the exchange again

here4fun123 said:
>The gif's fucking deleted again

Jesus Christ you absolute mongoloids can't even pretend to do something right in this situation. I know mentally disabled people who are less retarded than you lot, it's actually fucking astounding

Very unfortunate to see this happen again.

blackandwhitekat said:
Very unfortunate to see this happen again.

Yeah, the administration has some serious issues from the looks of it... Specially because that gif HAD BEEN APPROVED by NMNY of all people

tsukiyomaruzero said:
Yeah, the administration has some serious issues from the looks of it... Specially because that gif HAD BEEN APPROVED by NMNY of all people

it probably just got put in the "previously deleted thing reuploaded" admin quee or something, or at least I hope thats what happened.

here4fun123 said:
>The gif's fucking deleted again

Is fixed, poggers

dieneseis said:
Cheers, NMNY, on backtracking on saying you'd approve the animation (https://e621.net/posts/3013599) if it was the original, letting millcore deleting it, then deleting your comments here where you said you'd approve it but forgetting to delete the quote replies where your message still appears (they were just downvoted to oblivion) Cheers!

Y'all do know that comments that receive more than like, 3 downvotes are just hidden, right. Nothing was ever deleted

crehvan said:
Y'all do know that comments that receive more than like, 3 downvotes are just hidden, right. Nothing was ever deleted

It's dependent on user, the default is -3 afaik. I can see posts up to -10 at least, and between that and -15 at most

You know there has been a few essays in this thread but I feel like we haven't reached critical mass yet. I feel like in 5 months someone is randomly going to show up with a NOVEL.

here4fun123 said:
It's dependent on user, the default is -3 afaik. I can see posts up to -10 at least, and between that and -15 at most

It's a setting in your account, you can adjust the threshold up or down as you see fit.

drakkenfyre said:
FYI, that Zip is infected by a trojan. When I downloaded it my antivirus went off, and reported it contained Trojan:Script/Sabsik.TE.A!ml.

No idea which scanner you use, but those think it's fine: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/a431f0e9e77473c136da62d0666ceeac17c0711095cc8e3dc1bcb8d552f3cfa2

Either way, it's a non-executable archive full of non-executable images.

iamnotreallyhere3 said:
No idea which scanner you use, but those think it's fine: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/a431f0e9e77473c136da62d0666ceeac17c0711095cc8e3dc1bcb8d552f3cfa2

Either way, it's a non-executable archive full of non-executable images.

Yes, it was a false positive. But malware doesn't have to use executables. There are plenty of file types that can be used (e.g. scripts.) And it's also possible to disguise an executable as a JPG (and I don't mean by just naming it (name).jpg.exe), but actually make it look like a legitimate JPG, until you open it. Then it displays the image it's supposed to be while the virus runs in the background. Nasty stuff.

visionsinfire said:
The embodiment of peak un-selfawareness.

You lot refusing to listen to your userbase and treating them with complete contempt is the reason it's gotten to this point in the first place.

Peace out, asshole.

My guy did not deserve a ban

justanidiot said:
My guy did not deserve a ban

He actually got banned for that? LOL

justanidiot said:
My guy did not deserve a ban

I actually agree, reversed it.

notmenotyou said:
I actually agree, reversed it.

Thanks dude.

visionsinfire said:
Thanks dude.

you are legend

Bring back the Edits

What the fuck happened here, why so many comments?

Could seome please explain the situation please. I read a couple of the comments but still can't make sense of the whole situation.

1ontheinternet said:
What the fuck happened here, why so many comments?

Could seome please explain the situation please. I read a couple of the comments but still can't make sense of the whole situation.

Twokinds fans angry over staff decision made awhile back to remove past edits and ban new ones. It bubbles up every now and then, and because there was no real resolution at the time most edit comment sections and now this one became a bit of a boiling point. It coming out of nowhere meant there was no real effort to properly regroup/move elsewhere
Fractured the edit community and made it alot harder to find stuff. People are rightfully upset.

Thats the neutral version atleast...

blackandwhitekat said:
Twokinds fans angry over staff decision made awhile back to remove past edits and ban new ones. It bubbles up every now and then, and because there was no real resolution at the time most edit comment sections and now this one became a bit of a boiling point. It coming out of nowhere meant there was no real effort to properly regroup/move elsewhere
Fractured the edit community and made it alot harder to find stuff. People are rightfully upset.

Thats the neutral version atleast...

It's why at times this site confuses me, yeah you would think there would be consistency but no that's just human nature.

snowwolf said:
Honestly, because it's really hard to find good staff members. There are a lot of people who'd like the clout, and think they'd enjoy the work, but there are a lot of people who'll accept responsibilities and then just... burn out after a week or two.

Like, I work on an entirely unrelated volunteer project website-in-the-making, and of the.. 120? people who's said "I'll help!" only like... 4 have stuck around reliably. so many piddle out 48 hours later, or a few weeks later.

Which is why we usually look for people who've already shown they WANT to spend time on the website and have a good grasp of the rules, and tagging and stuff like that. and approving pictures is a lot more than just "this is a pretty picture"... it's why we tell anyone who asks about being a staff member to participate on the site, uploading good posts, tagging good tags, providing general over all positive contributions to the website... and.. there really arne't that many people who've already shown that dedication. Even when we talk about lowering our high bars... generally speaking, most people are either running at "super casual" or "this is my hyperfocus" without a lot of middle ground. And being hyperfocused isn't enough to make someone GOOD at the things we need someone to be good at.

I mean, I don't feel comfortable touching approvals, because they are so complicated.

and none of that guarantees that they're not hotheaded and otherwise poorly suited to be in a position of power. Believe me, we've been there and done that before, yet peopel call us power hungry idiots because we enforce the rules.

we're always talking about ways to find new staff, but they don't grow on trees :(

Not really? We have put other artists on the dnp list because they were repeatedly problematic. We don't HAVE to allow every artist on the website.

And, it's not that we say "only twokind edits are not allowed" -- we say that in general, twokind edits have proven to be poor quality. We didn't retroactively delete any twokind edits. Whenever we decide something isn't allowed anymore, we say that the old posts are grandfathered in. they're an exception to the new rule, y'know?

Of all of the twokinds edits uploaded, 26 were of high enough quality to keep around. Tha'ts about 4.5%. of all twokind edits.

And we have already LONG had the rule saying that edits have to be high quality. Editing someone else's artwork to be gray and not black isn't high quality. I can do that in 2 minutes in an art program. Adding little c shapes for nipples? not high effort. these aren't new rules.

Now add in the fact that when we delete the hyper-balls-edit, maybe one or two peopel complain. but any two kinds edit, even ones that were literally "I copy and pasted flora's head on top of this random picture's body" had an uproar about them.

so it's not just 600 posts, It's 600 posts, it's 600 people howling for blood because of FLORANIPPLES, it's 600 people angry because we didn't allow them to upload edits of art, from an artist who doesn't want edits. it's also 600 times we have to go hunting to try and figure out if this picture violates our rules, because someone has--again--decided to get around dnp by just not tagging the artist.

It's not about overwork. It's about the fact that we got tired of the repeated abuse that the fan base hurled at us because they really LIKED that edit.

We get well over 1000 posts a day. if you assume 30 seconds each, split amount 3 staff members, that's nearly 3 hours of work a day. Except they don't take 30 seconds. you might snap out some faster, but then you get one that makes you stop for 10 mintues to try and figure out if it is, or is not okay. also there aren't usually 3 staff memebrs who can devote 3 hours of each day to this.

So like, let me be blunt: If you ran a shop, and this family kept coming in, and their kids always pulled shit off the shelves and made a mess, 9 times out of 10.... maybe you'd tell them they can't shop here anymore.

If people would have been more reasonable about us deleting things that violate our already established rules--which, let me emphasize, we have only ever enforced our rules that we apply to everything equally-- then maybe twokinds edits would still be allowed. But instead, we STILL have groups of people who think that if they don't tag edit, their color shift of a popular artist's work won't be detected.

Ah, let me correct you. This isn't a job. We don't get paid. We are doing this because we love the website and want to make it a better place. I wish we got money for this. I'd love to be able to justify spending more time here, but this is my free time. Right now, my dinner is getting cold and my friends are waiting for me to come play a game together, but I"m here, typing to you, because I feel a responsibility for this place I volunteer at.

As for the second part of your question: you're welcome to suggest peopel you think might make good staff members. are you volunteering? do you have a couple of hours a day to devote to all this?

jeez, sorry that yall getting backlash fr taking time out of your day to keep the quality of e621 high.

notmenotyou said:

So far less than 10 people have cared enough to ask for a copy of the deleted edits

How?

notmenotyou said:
So far less than 10 people have cared enough to ask for a copy of the deleted edits

I am once again asking for a copy since you didnt respond...

johnwalkerson said:
I am once again asking for a copy since you didnt respond...

Sent you a dmail, you probably got lost in the rest of the comments.

For anyone else: Please send me a dmail or email (listed on my profile) so I can actually see the request in a timely manner, comments and blips are more prone to getting lost than my other correspondence options.

Man, this thread is wild.

looking over this thread after the smoke clears is insane

snowwolf said:
Well, I wasn't as active 2 years ago, so let me swing into the forums...

• thread asking how new posts are approved --because their twokinds edit was--oh boy, it wasn't good. I'll save us all the review, but in it, numerous staff members talk about how they've been cracking down on edits in general, to which the response is generally positive, except from the guy who posted the edit.
• discussion of what's on people's blocklists.
• a couple aliases
• a thread requesting the undeletion of... oh, a Study Partners set of pages. Twokinds is mentioned as an example of how we handle webcomic postings.
• a thread talking about the worst comics they've read (sorry! another person came in and said that they got deeper in and liked it!)
• thread talking about casual nudity

That's about it, in the two-year-ago range. Even if I go back further, everything is an alias or implication
If I look more recently:

• A thread where someone uploaded "crappy looking artwork" and tagged it as two kinds and someone reported it as a bug that they couldn't remove the twokinds tag. When they had it explained to them how implications work, they got irritated that the staff did not verify that the tagged characters did not look like the characters involved before they approved it.
• someone wanting to post the entirety of twokinds--oh this is a 9 year old thread that was accidentally bumped.

The only thread I can find about the conditional DNP is one started 8 months ago... where in someone asks politely if there's a chance of lifting that, because it wasn't banned before and you accepted OTHER non-twokinds edits, already? Which is kinda funny, because they listed 4 pictures and two of them have been deleted by artist request because they did not want edits of their artwork around. Anyway, the thread got zero traction. One reply, from a Janitor.

Okay let's look at Discord.
.... yeah, basically nothing. 225 results, yes, but mostly people sharing artwork they linked, or talking about how they do or don't like the comic, and some struggle because of people tracing other's art to produce twokinds fanart. As well as exploding janitor's mailbox and making their job more difficult.

So. Maybe the twokinds community was upset, and that's valid but the e621 user base at large generally seemed to have viewed this as a positive thing.

May I suggest y'all start a twokinds booru or something? Please? I want you guys to have your content and be happy. I just don't want it here.

Of course. family comes first. My best wishes to your father <3

This aged poorly for me (this was a past account that I can’t log in under anymore since I forgot the password for the email address I used for it) as he never recovered from the surgery, instead it got worse, then we found out he had ALS on top of his MS, which is something so rare that the doctor didn’t think at first that it was even possible, and he passed away a year later