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CroytheHorse
MemberThat's so Wholesome! The ending kinda sad tho...
Lkynmbr24
MemberConsidering Cofi's always been there to defend Chee from Iscream's shenanigans, doesn't seem that farfetched to me that Chee would start having an eye for Cofi.
Could do without the condescending tones too.
Malikfoxen
MemberNot really invested in any of these ships at all. If I'm honest. They're cute and funny characters when the artists political biases don't slip in here and there to me but that's about it. Not sure how anybody got invested enough to care about who's dating who aside from iscream and fwench fwy
Michaelgum
MemberTheir literal first interaction was Cofi complimenting Chee.
FluffyShinx
MemberChikn has been shown to be a good friend, care for cheez, they have common interests, they are both a bit socially awkward and too polite sometimes, and obviously both want a good relationship...
Cofi is random, a bit abrasive, quirky, and socially unique but proud (furry?)... do you know who else is kind of like that? SLUSHI! She has far more in common but is almost still the quiet yin to her yang.
But because Cheez was complimented once, I guess it's made to be? She just randomly becomes a lovestruck schoolgirl around Cofi, it's like the annoying in love character with no personality except I NEED TO BE WITH THEM in TV shows/games... why excuse it here?
Okay, but seriously, I say this cause I was a big fan and don't care for what the series is now... so I'll take my dislikes for daring to question your "perfect 🥺 ship"...
TL;DR - Chicken on a CheeseBurger? Interesting, tasty, probably on the McDonald's secret menu... Coffee with your Cheeseburger? That's just a wasted combo, get a good drink, don't blend em'.
EntropyDiscord
BlockedIts not a ship though, not yet anyway, its a one sided
romancecrush until we know what Cofi thinks. For all we know Cofi might be into literally anybody. Hell, she likes "evil" people obviously, by the fact she unironically stalked Iscream for a while and kept trying to bait the bunny, while Iscream was in a relationship too I might add.Like, for example, we've never seen her meet Hawt Saus. What if she digs him being a jerk to her and calling her a freak? Though that would destroy both Chee and Chikn, Chee for obvious reasons, and Chikn because both his friend is destroyed, and Hawt Saus is making more progress for something he wants than he is, since he canonically really doesn't like Hawt Saus. (Progress in the sense someone is interested, who knows how Hawt Saus would react to someone wanting to be called a freak.)
Plus, there's the whole "chemistry" thing you talked about, Cofi literally may just like being friends with Chee because Chee is too nice, or as she'd probably put it, "not her type", and have a platonic love for Chee. Until the point comes where she possibly gets rejected, its best to wait until an official confession is made. I'm in the same camp of you on the chemistry opinion honestly, a relationship is more than just shared experiences. There's a reason not all friendships end in romance.
Also about Cofi calling her pretty, there are plenty of attractive nice people I know personally I wouldn't date with a 10 foot pole because I know they're not my type, and it wouldn't last because I'd start to get sick of them, or they wouldn't give me what I want in a relationship.
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EntropyDiscord
BlockedActually, art request here for anyone who finds the idea funny, would be awesome if someone with some artistic talent made a comic of that situation. Show Chee behind Hawt Saus ready to speak out against Hawt Saus, but Cofi asks him to call her that again with hearts in her eyes or something, and both Hawt Saus and Chee having the same horrified face, cause I'm not sure Chee even knows how much of a "Freak" Cofi is.
Just, a request towards literally anybody. Would go a long way to point out the chemistry issues in that one comic. Big thanks if this random request directed at anyone works.
rauta2
MemberDamn... chikn nuggit is just me talking with my friends ;-;
That hit too close to home
Labusch
MemberThe best kind of support you can get LOVE 💕 SUPPORT
ChicagoTypewritter
Membersad chikn makes me sad
PonE-Sharp
MemberIf that’s the route you wanna go, we’ve got two non-binary characters obviously dating and yet Chee and Cofi are apparently ‘too much inclusitivity…?’
Mordy
MemberForever a scone.
Coryhouse
MemberI miss pre-virtueflag Chikin Nuggit.
Spoodge Pukem
Membersame bro. same.
Farseer
MemberI'm out of the loop, I guess, only really watch these here. I thought Cheezburger and Chickn were like, cat/dog siblings, so never assumed they'd be in a relationship. Frankly, my only problem with Cofi and anyone is that I have a hard time imaging what a relationship with Cofi would look like in the first place lol.
FiniteArrows She~Her
MemberLooks like we'll be getting more of those two, and I'm here for it!
Meganime
BlockedHonestly the idea that people were expecting something that deep to the point where this is "forced" and goes against the simplicity of the earlier episodes is laughable
It's still a series that's full of 20 second short at the end of the day, it ain't that deep or serious
EntropyDiscord
BlockedTBF, the non-binary couple are extremely easy to identify the actual sex of because of how many of one side of the gender stereotypes they adhere to. Plus they're not really even non-binary when you think about it, they're more amorphous all together. Or more simply, they don't even have a gender outside the one they choose at the time if at all. Identification has no meaning to entities like them, realistically speaking. They can even identify near perfectly as literally other characters theoretically.
They're about as non-binary as a pair of Ken and Barbie dolls.
I'm fairly certain REAL non-binary people actually put forth effort to not appear as one gender or the other and create a balance, one could even say to such non-binary individuals their lack of gender stereotype balance is an insult to actual non-binary efforts to not conform to traditional stereotypes and beliefs.
....For the record, I still love both of the characters, I'm just saying their representation aspect is iffy.
So, this is an edit, I was confused at the thumbs down, and I think I was confusing androgynous with non-binary after looking up some things, or more accurately I thought they were mutually dependent. Turns out the answer is SLIGHTLY different, though I still question literal shapeshifters who make of themselves whatever they want being non-binary. Not really "genderfluid" if your body can be whatever you want it to be, cause your gender will be matching what you literally are in that case even as you jump around, yea? Technically, their gender would be non-Euclidean.
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anonymouslurker99
MemberWho needs Twitter when you’ve got the comment section of a cute cartoon series that has LGBTQAI+ characters in it?
blackchameleon
MemberI don't think the point was about there being too much inclusivity or representation, but rather about the lack of chemistry between Chee and Cofi. Inclusivity is just being blamed as the motivation behind Chee's crush on Cofi.
Clawstripe
JanitorThe lack of chemistry between the two is relatively realistic, though. Same for crushing on another person when it might not be reciprocated. After all, there is no guarantee this relationship has to work out, much less get off the ground in the beginning. But before we can have a relationship fail, we have to set it up in the first place.
UmbreonPower510
MemberNever expected a ship war in the comments here. Wow
EntropyDiscord
BlockedIs it a ship war though? there's really only like two statements going on frankly:
1: They have bad chemestry.
2: Chee liking her is understandable.
And frankly nobody is disagreeing with either of these points from what I can tell....
Oh, and then you have the third branch just complaining about people commenting essentially.
SuperSniperEagleMan
MemberReminds me of the debate about the shipping between Hermione and Ron or Harry. If you're THAT upset about two certain characters hooking up, just ignore that part and focus on the rest of the good stuff about it.
EntropyDiscord
Blockedehh, I disagree with ignoring something you see as a problem, that's a pretty good way to have it grow into the other stuff you like. Like for example, its possible Chee and Cofi become inseparable in the future if that relationship comes to pass, and then people who didn't like it before will have to deal with seeing it nearly every single time either of them are on screen.
I definitely would prefer enough complaints are made so that the people behind it at least realize its not so heavily supported that people won't be turned off the show by it, or a notable portion anyway, cause then that way they can dial it back a bit if it does happen, instead of assuming a bunch of haters "randomly showed up" or something stupid like that.
FiniteArrows She~Her
MemberWhy are people arguing so hard over this?
I don't want add to the long paragraphs other people have already made, so here. A section.
First of all. I have never shipped Chikin Nuggit and Cheezborger. they are quite possibly the best representation of a platonic relationship I've ever seen. It's the kind that COULD blossom into a romantic relationship but doesn't have to. It's perfect as is.
Second, Cheez and Cofi have a little bit more of a complex relationship. They don't react super often. So yes, Cheez and Chikin ARE closer. But it's a different kind of relationship. I can recall three main interactions between Cheez and Cofi that add to my point:
ONE: their first interaction. Cofi complementing Cheez's dress, and Cheez blushing afterward. "complements from girls are the best!" This isn't indicative of much on it's own, it's just a cute interaction and shows how much a complement can influence a person especially when feeling inadequate compared to others.
Two: The many times Cofi has defended Cheez and messed with Iscream just as much as they have messed with Cheez. Chiken has done this too, if I recall, but Cofi turned that up a notch.
Three: Cheez helping out Cofi in the rain with an umbrella. Again, not indicative of much on its own. It shows that Cheez is willing to reciprocate with how much Cofi has helped her out.
Also, Cofi and Slushi? Really? I mean they are like entirely opposite each other. Slushi is bubbly and excitable, Cofi is odd yet protective and caring, and Cheez is a cute, happy bean, but not to the point of being overexcited like slushi. Cheez calmer vibes work better because cofi isn't absolutely insane, but actually rather neutral. She only acts up when protective. Freak mode if you will.
FiniteArrows She~Her
MemberI'm sorry, huh? Genuinely confused here.
another section, I can feel a paragraph coming on...
The reason why they're (both in the singular AND plural sense, talking about two they/thems here.) nonbinary is because they are different than the rest in many ways. Iscream is a literal demon that chooses to take the form of a cute bunny. Fwench fwy is a magical wish dragon. Iscream is evil, Fwench fwy is good. And they're in love. And also, yes, they're character designs might be more masculine than feminine, but body types and genders are completely different things. My point is they literally have no "real" gender other than the one they're chosen, both gender and body representation, because that's how gender works. They have chosen their own representations of themselves on their own canonically. It's not wrong because it's their choice.
EntropyDiscord
BlockedBefore anything, how do you do that drop down menu thing? That's freakin' clean, I like it. Immediate upvote. Enjoy that wall of text below if you so choose at your own peril. Just my logic on all that stuff.
Anyway, the thing about gender is that while its a mental construct of the view someone has of themselves, they're STILL supposed to be a consistent view even if you neither view yourself as male or female, and something outside that standard of male or female, which is what non-binary means. the history of non-binary individuals follow the trend of still being something specific even if they don't have a name for it, which sometimes they actually DO in some cultures, like ‘Fa’afafines in Samoan culture, for example. That example has them move BETWEEN the gender roles of male and female, and not strictly identify as ONE or the OTHER. They still, technically, identify somewhere in between due to various circumstances. There's also the Muxes in Mexico, who identify as neither male or female, instead of saying they're somewhere in between, but the point I'm saying is, all non-binary individuals, whether they want to admit it or not, choose somewhere in between male or female.
Now, they could say they're NOT in between, but think about what gender actually is. Its not WHAT YOU ARE, yea, but its also not quite what you THINK you are either I disagree with that for a lotta reasons, that's only true in a personal scale. Its more accurate to say its where you are mentally. Cause no matter what you identify as, you'll still, whether intentionally or not, adhere to various forms of gender role stereotypes. Imagine for example, the beefiest manliest manly man, adhering to all male stereotypes, and the most feminine girly girl, said they were non-binary. You're not asking people to see what you are if you were them, you're asking people to see what you want THEM to see, which is important because gender, essentially, is a social construct, self given or otherwise. So you're basically asking someone to identify YOU how you identify yourself, even as you act within their own given conclusions of identity to an extreme degree in that circumstance. Socially speaking, at what point does it matter what others call you if all they can see you as, for example, is one side or the other?
That is personally what I call the kink in non-binary armor, because they can't change how people view gender norms and behaviors, society is nowhere near that point yet, and, I'll be frank, I don't think it ever WILL be because I'm fairly certain even the most die hard activists for Non-binary rights, including non-binary people themselves, will catch themselves identifying someone differently than how they want mentally, even if they catch themselves before they say it. So, while the genderfluid self identity exists, they're still subject to identification based on uncountable variables, even if they're androgynous and create a balance there will still be some of "male" sprinkled here and "female" sprinkled here. Basically: How society views them, which is who they try to identify themselves to, is still important, even if not necessarily MORE important, because its society itself they're trying to identify themselves towards, whether individual to individual or individual to group. You don't bother identifying yourself at all if there's no reason to think about what other people think. Society can accept in between male and female, because its not hard at all to partake in both feminine and masculine traits, in fact its difficult to be purely of either those two. Especially when you consider some traits like cooking can be considered both masculine AND feminine, so in some cases, out right impossible.
Now.... After that HUGE bunch of paragraphs, which I WILL edit into a drop down thing like you did when I learn how. Enter: Fwench Fwy and Iscream.
They still partake to gender roles, quite strongly as I've pointed out, to the point where you do what I said, and could easily think them more male than female, or more female than male, but.... The thing is, for them specifically, socially speaking, they're actually capable of manipulating tiny, to much greater, details about themselves, that completely, at will, change how individuals view them. Consider for a moment how gender identity is a social construct, and how people identify themselves is suppose to have SOME effect on how they appear on the outside. Non-binaries are included in that, but in the sense they're supposed to be somewhere in the middle-ish to at least a minimal degree. Because Iscream and Fwench Fwy are literal shapeshifters, socially speaking, anyone who understands that, would already immediately know they're not just gender fluid, but also fluid in their true sex as well. That means that, socially, when it comes to identity, they're no longer anywhere in between, they can, quite literally, legitimately, be completely unidentifiable to both genders at the most fundamental level. They call THEMSELVES non-binary, but.... Well, imagine let's say there was an amalgamation of meat, and it had no identifying features, and someone asked you to give it a gender.
Obviously, you'd do that whole "I think its this" but for no reason, it would be nothing more than a guess, yea? Then that meat transforms into a highly feminine appearance before you, your own definition of it, suddenly, and without warning. Immediately, you'd think, "Oh, it was female".... But then it calls itself non-binary. The difference between the earlier point of girliest girly girl at the top and this shapeshifting pile of meat.... Is that you know that it can quite literally be anything. They're no longer fluid between genders, they are OUTSIDE them all together, from a social point of view. If you care about what others think in any way enough to self identify, than the social aspect of what other people think is, obviously, still important. Do they think of you as in between male and female if you can literally change anything and everything about yourself? No, they don't think about your gender at all, because you're TRULY fluid, the 100% article that society would, I guarantee you, come up with a unique term for to separate such creatures from actual non-binary people, and creatures, if it legitimately existed. Even gender bending creatures in the wild still switch between the two genders specifically and can't go outside our own standard of social identification. Amoeba are an example of something completely genderless, and rely on mitosis, but we don't call them non-binary organisms, we call asexual.
HENCE! Why I say their gender would be called non-Euclidian, not non-binary, even if they identify their own genders differently, because, again, and finally, how you identify yourself does not mean society will identify you the same way, and you only name your gender because you have a social reason to do so. Usually cause you want people to treat you a certain way, society can always humor anyone's mind set, but once they're wholly unique on every scale, good luck getting identified how you wish.
I am 7000 characters in, I could keep going and go on and on about my logic here cause I've thought about it a bunch, comment on society, personal views, philosophy, etc, but I'll stop here until I learn how to squish paragraphs down like you did.
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FiniteArrows She~Her
MemberFirst of all, yeah! To use a "dropdown" (actually called a section) You type "{section=Title} Paragraph {/section}" (I replaced the square brackets with curly brackets to avoid it becoming an actual section).
And you get this:
Title
Paragraph
See? Cool right? There is a shortcut on the top bar of the comment box that gives you an automatic little template to type in. symbol looks like two "V"s on top of each other. Anyway, I'll make my own response here...
My response here.
To be honest, good on ya for describing your views with such detail that I don't need to assume anything about your stance. I agree myself with a lot of it. Gender itself is a really complicated social construct to describe! It's hard to work around it, and describe what it is. Essentially, where you and I differ is that last part, the gender roles.
Someone can be very masculine and still identify as female, or very feminine and still identify as male. Usually, this means they are trans in the real world, trying their best to fit in to usually something other than what they're assigned at birth.
People that don't respect this in the real world and continue to call them by their previous gender are viewed as insulting because that's.. well, it is. Iscream and Fwench fwy specifically though? They don't seem to care much about what others think of them. There's even a skit about it in the series somewhere.
Honestly? I don't hate the idea of their gender being considered noneuclidian rather than nonbinary. It's, as you said, on a whole other plane of existance compared to the spectrum that gender seems to sit on as of now. However wide it is, their outside of it.
The closest mirror would be nonbinary, and that's what they call themselves. Society can't say much about them in the first place, because although they unavoidably show attributes towards any of the halves of the spectrum, both their sex and gender change at any moment to our understanding. I think Iscream and Fwench Fwy chose nonbinary to represent themselves because it's more understandable than having to explain the entire concept of how and why they go by it and are outside both the gender and sex spectrum.
Iscream and Fwench Fwy are a special case in the fact that they can not only choose their representations. That in itself gives them the right to change it and choose whatever they wish for themselves, even if they don't want to change at that very moment to reflect it. Gender is tied in no way to the body and rather the mind, and their minds are probably similarly outside of the realm of possibility due to their species and backstories.
In the case of amoeba as you mentioned, amoeba don't have a mouth nor a mind to communicate "hey, I'm male" or "hey, I'm female" or "hey, my gender is a secret of the universe."
Now please go edit that into a proper section, now that you know how! Thank you for asking about it.
Farseer
MemberYou two (and so many others) are just over complicating this. The distinction people like to make with those two is that they never had sexes to begin with and so no need for biological reproduction, so they should in theory have a veeeeeeery different mindset/perspective than we would. It's portrayed quite often in fantasy and science fiction (most of my experience comes from novels) with various races, i.e. a slimes/amoeba species that simply might not understand the concept of gender/sex because they don't have any and reproduce by dividing on their own (or division while taking random genetic data from anything).
In short, calling them nonbinary would be as redundantly silly as calling a rock non-biological. It suggests a social/cultural rejection of a concept they don't have and the choosing of one that technically can't exist because of that. I think even that much is still over complication as the creator of these is pretty obviously just trying to be inclusive and isn't putting a lot of though into... well, short comedy skits. Regardless of the logic, it's probably they're just stand-ins for nonbinary humans, and arguing it either way is just silly. There wasn't any real need t go THAT deep into it.
SuperSniperEagleMan
MemberI dunno... if you have an idea for a good ship and there's good reasoning behind it (which in this case there is), I would rather you just do the shipping as you wish, rather then feel forced into doing one you don't. I don't like the canon shipping between Rainbow Dash and Applejack from MLP, as I prefer Rainbow Dash and Twilight, but if that's the direction they want to go, I can't argue with it. It's ultimately not my choice, so... whatever. I'll just pretend my shipping is better XD
EntropyDiscord
BlockedSorry it took so long, I got distracted by life stuff shortly after that and completely forgot about the comment chain. But yea, I fixed it now, thank you for sharing that info!
My whole point is they're not proper stand ins because they're on a different level than real world examples, which actually have both history and culture involved. Yea, its a lotta complicated thinking, but I wanted to make it clear I understand the subject matter when I spoke my opinion on the stuff, and that usually results in walls of text.
Cause, like, imagine if I shortened that to, "non-binary is between male and female, they're outside it as a default and choose what they want."
Obviously it would be at a much greater negative than it is now, and I'd just look like a total jerk, instead of, at worst, a smart arse. In fact, I did that earlier and you can see the result.
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Binding
MemberWhy is there a war here
Farseer
MemberAnd my point is that it doesn't matter whether or not they're "proper" stand-ins because it's obvious the author isn't doing anywhere near the kind of detailed worldbuilding you'd see elsewhere; these are short nonsensical comedy skits with characters with silly names all of which are obviously not meant to be taken serious, so doing so is, ironically, the opposite of critical thinking, it's stupid. It's like seriously taking a children's show like Dora the Explorer and wondering something like if those pauses she makes are because she's speaking to some unseen demon trapping her in a hellish imaginary dreamscape representing humanity's obsession with social media clout... naaaah dude, it's a kid's show and she's pausing so the kids can pretend to be involved.
While I agree that, from a logical standpoint, those two aren't really binary, given the nature of the skits, it'd be really hard to argue it wasn't done on purpose for the sake of inclusion, and even with your pointlessly lengthy discussion of an equally pointless topic, you haven't even come close to proving otherwise. I seriously doubt the creator put anywhere near the amount of effort thinking about it as you have, though.
You're not being a smartass or a jerk. You're being silly. Stopping at "they're binary" works for 99.99999% of everyone and everything in this context. There is no need to run circles and dive into historical context or other bs.
EntropyDiscord
Blocked....I think I understand what you're saying now.... But I disagree on the idea the intent of an author or creator actually matters in terms of results or reality of their creation, if its publicly released, they're making it for others more than themselves, yea? If there's a show they intended for kids, it could end up getting an adult fan crowd who enjoy thinking about it from that "silly" point of view, for example. As for being silly, I mean, does that make things any less considerable? Its silly that people can make literal millions off of sitting in front of a screen and playing the fool for the masses, but the results effect quite a few lives.
How is this a war? Nobody is throwing insults, and its just peaceful debates, at most. Only people being hurt are those who probably get headaches reading a lotta text, and that's on them.
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Deutsche marks
MemberI feel like a million deutsche marks!
Almega
MemberIf I remember correctly Chikin wanted a freak too and well Cofi comes around saying "I'm just a little freak. A lone Wolf. Cringe" I mean she says I am a freak and Chikin wants someone who is freak so it makes sense to me. Also I notice that Cofi kinda being like Chikin as she can appear and reappear at anytime or place even if its to make Iscream suffer or to annoy him she literally is random like Chikin at times.
The Yes
MemberAnnoying
Avaliab
MemberThis one reminds me of the good old "Where are you finding people" video where Chikin just rants about being unable to find a relationship.
Atsilv
MemberI think the ship started when Cofi complimented Chee's dress
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