Aliasing harvey_beaks_(character) → harvey_beaks
Link to alias

Reason:

Currently the series is using the basic "harvey_beaks" tag. I think that tag should belong to the character. This alias just reinforces that.

To exapnd on this...seems to me that usually when a character shares a name with thier series the character gets the basic tag and the series gets a "_(series)" qualifier (like shantae and shantae_(series)). I just want to bring the harvey_beaks series in line with that.

EDIT: I tried changing all the "harvey_beaks_(character)" tags to just "harvey_beaks" manually...I thought I got them all but there is still one in the database, but when I search for it there is no results? Is this just a phantom tag, or is there some setting I have that prevents me from seeing it? (my blacklist is completely empty though...)

EDIT: The tag alias harvey_beaks_(character) -> harvey_beaks (forum #223270) has been rejected by @Rainbow_Dash.

I think it'd be better to use both suffixes and alias the base tag directly to the harvey_beaks_(series) tag.

Dyrone said:
EDIT: I tried changing all the "harvey_beaks_(character)" tags to just "harvey_beaks" manually...I thought I got them all but there is still one in the database, but when I search for it there is no results? Is this just a phantom tag, or is there some setting I have that prevents me from seeing it? (my blacklist is completely empty though...)

Please don't. It creates a hassel to undo if the alias is decided to be a bad idea.

Furrin_Gok said:
I think it'd be better to use both suffixes and alias the base tag directly to the harvey_beaks_(series) tag.

Since when is that a thing? It isn't like Garfield's tag is "garfield_(character)", it's just "garfield". Same with Batman...same with Shantae. I think it's better to follow established norms rather than ambush people with a sudden "_(character)" suffix.

Furrin_Gok said:
Please don't. It creates a hassle to undo if the alias is decided to be a bad idea.

Normally I wouldn't, but there are only 23 Harvey Beaks images on the site...it wouldn't be too much trouble to revert my changes.

Dyrone said:
Since when is that a thing? It isn't like Garfield's tag is "garfield_(character)", it's just "garfield". Same with Batman...same with Shantae. I think it's better to follow established norms rather than ambush people with a sudden "_(character)" suffix.

Normally I wouldn't, but there are only 23 Harvey Beaks images on the site...it wouldn't be too much trouble to revert my changes.

They said "I think...", and I'm with them on both: unless it is misspells or alternate names, if you submit an alias request you shouldn't get rid of the tag you are aliasing. And I find it odd that we don't use _(character) suffixes on those, they shouldn't be exempt from the suffix tags. That's why the suffixes exist, and why they automatically enter the tag catagory. You'd only use faux suffixes for labeling if there's more than one of a catagory, so there'd be "Garfield_(character)", along with "Garfield_(*CO name*)", rinse and repeat.

Siral_Exan said:
They said "I think...", and I'm with them on both: unless it is misspells or alternate names, if you submit an alias request you shouldn't get rid of the tag you are aliasing. And I find it odd that we don't use _(character) suffixes on those, they shouldn't be exempt from the suffix tags. That's why the suffixes exist, and why they automatically enter the tag catagory. You'd only use faux suffixes for labeling if there's more than one of a catagory, so there'd be "Garfield_(character)", along with "Garfield_(*CO name*)", rinse and repeat.

They said "I think"? Why even bring that up? Am I not supposed to take thier comment seriously and respond to it? Really don't see where you're going with that...

And you're going to have to explain yourself better regarding why you think adding a "character" suffix to all these different characters is a good idea...because I didn't understand a lick of what you said. Personally I've never understood the obession this site has with suffixes. I figure if a character doesn't conflict with another character no suffix is needed, and when a character conflicts with its own copyright then a suffix is only needed on the copyright. I am literally only following what I see as an established norm here...I don't really see why you want to change it other than maybe you just enjoy being contrary.

I should have known...

Suffixes work off the absolute known fact that there are other tags that share a name with X. If there are things that share names with X, you add a suffix so you can specifically look for it, instead of shooting in the dark with characters, fan characters, copyrights, and artists with the exact same name.

Suffixes = searchability. Searchability/blacklist-ability are paramount on e621, and there is no OC Donut Steel argument here: if there are names that are shared between tags, said names need a suffix. If there are too many shared names, the name needs a (disambiguation) tag to tell you what to look for. If it needs one, it gets one.

People tag copyrights with the generic, non-suffixed names, too, though. Which means we can't use that for characters, and it needs to change.

Siral_Exan said:
I should have known...

Suffixes work off the absolute known fact that there are other tags that share a name with X. If there are things that share names with X, you add a suffix so you can specifically look for it, instead of shooting in the dark with characters, fan characters, copyrights, and artists with the exact same name.

Suffixes = searchability. Searchability/blacklist-ability are paramount on e621, and there is no OC Donut Steel argument here: if there are names that are shared between tags, said names need a suffix. If there are too many shared names, the name needs a (disambiguation) tag to tell you what to look for. If it needs one, it gets one.

Yeah, no, I understand all that...what I don't understand STILL is why you think it would be necessary to add a suffix to BOTH, nowhere in your explanation have you provided a justification for that. There are exactly two things that share the Harvey Beaks name...one is the character and one is the series...so only one of them needs a suffix, the other can go without one just fine.

Furrin_Gok said:
People tag copyrights with the generic, non-suffixed names, too, though. Which means we can't use that for characters, and it needs to change.

Yeah, the change can be we all agree that when this situation arises the base non-suffixed tag goes to the character and the series gets a "_(series)" suffix. Can you even provide 3 examples of MAJOR SERIES that share a name with their character wherein the series is not suffixed but the character is? Because I have provided PLENTY of opposite examples and you couldn't be bothered to share a single example.

Dyrone said:
Yeah, no, I understand all that...what I don't understand STILL is why you think it would be necessary to add a suffix to BOTH, nowhere in your explanation have you provided a justification for that. There are exactly two things that share the Harvey Beaks name...one is the character and one is the series...so only one of them needs a suffix, the other can go without one just fine.

Nowhere in your explanation have you provided a reason it's a good idea to not, despite us pointing out several times it's a bad idea to.

Yeah, the change can be we all agree that when this situation arises the base non-suffixed tag goes to the character and the series gets a "_(series)" suffix. Can you even provide 3 examples of MAJOR SERIES that share a name with their character wherein the series is not suffixed but the character is? Because I have provided PLENTY of opposite examples and you couldn't be bothered to share a single example.

• Shantae. People tag the series using the unsuffixed tag, despite the unsuffixed tag being used for the character.

That's all I need, actually. Nothing about three. One example that proves people don't use it the way it's "meant to be" and so it should be changed. However, for the sake of being a good sport:

• Metroid. people try to tag the species as the unsuffixed tag, meaning it won't work if inverted either.
• Spider-man_(series) and spider-man_(character). Hey, lookie here, they're doing it! And y'know what? It works out!

Furrin_Gok said:
Nowhere in your explanation have you provided a reason it's a good idea to not, despite us pointing out several times it's a bad idea to.

Yeah, good job dodging the question and turning it back onto me instead...you'd make a great politician.

The character tag is already GREEN. That mean it's a CHARACTER TAG. Why add "character" onto that when it's simply unnecessary? It's stupid. That's my reason, sorry if I thought it was obvious and didn't spoon-feed it to you.

Furrin_Gok said:
Shantae. People tag the series using the unsuffixed tag, despite the unsuffixed tag being used for the character.

You do realize that same confusion will happen either way, right? No matter what the base tag is aliased to people will mistake it for the other one. I don't see that as a real argument for your point at all. If people don't give shits they will mess it up no matter how many suffixes you throw at the problem.

Furrin_Gok said:

• Spider-man_(series) and spider-man_(character). Hey, lookie here, they're doing it! And y'know what? It works out!

Never said it can't work, just that it looks like shit to have BOTH tags with a suffix. It's like...what's the point of the colors if you're just going to put a suffix on EVERYTHING? I mean shit, the tag is GREEN, and underneath a CHARACTER header in the post view and you're like "ehhhh...they STILL might misunderstand, better put a suffix on there too" ... how stupid do you suppose people are (and I do make a distinction between stupid and lazy)? Maybe we should add some rollover text as well..."HEY. THIS IS A CHARACTER. GOT IT? NOT THE SERIES...CHARACTER HERE!"

Dyrone said:
Yeah, good job dodging the question and turning it back onto me instead...you'd make a great politician.

The character tag is already GREEN. That mean it's a CHARACTER TAG. Why add "character" onto that when it's simply unnecessary? It's stupid. That's my reason, sorry if I thought it was obvious and didn't spoon-feed it to you.

You do realize that same confusion will happen either way, right? No matter what the base tag is aliased to people will mistake it for the other one. I don't see that as a real argument for your point at all. If people don't give shits they will mess it up no matter how many suffixes you throw at the problem.

Never said it can't work, just that it looks like shit to have BOTH tags with a suffix. It's like...what's the point of the colors if you're just going to put a suffix on EVERYTHING? I mean shit, the tag is GREEN, and underneath a CHARACTER header in the post view and you're like "ehhhh...they STILL might misunderstand, better put a suffix on there too" ... how stupid do you suppose people are (and I do make a distinction between stupid and lazy)? Maybe we should add some rollover text as well..."HEY. THIS IS A CHARACTER. GOT IT? NOT THE SERIES...CHARACTER HERE!"

Is that misconception the root of your confusion? Here'so why we all already knew that doesn't mean squat:
All it takes is one person typing copyright:harvey_beaks and bam, it's no longer a character tag.

Furrin_Gok said:
All it takes is one person typing copyright:harvey_beaks and bam, it's no longer a character tag.

I mean...is that a thing that actually happens? Are we constantly battling the 'batman' and 'shantae' tags having their tag types being changed to copyright? I kind of doubt that's a thing, because if it was then yall would have already moved over to qualifying them all and we wouldn't be having this discussion because I would see that as a normal thing.

A thinking person will see the green color...say "oh, that's for the character" and they won't change it, and the kind of noob who might change it probably doesn't even know how to change a tag's type.

Dyrone said:
I mean...is that a thing that actually happens? Are we constantly battling the 'batman' and 'shantae' tags having their tag types being changed to copyright? I kind of doubt that's a thing, because if it was then yall would have already moved over to qualifying them all and we wouldn't be having this discussion because I would see that as a normal thing.

A thinking person will see the green color...say "oh, that's for the character" and they won't change it, and the kind of noob who might change it probably doesn't even know how to change a tag's type.

Actually, it does happen. All the time. forum #223741
New users don't realize that "Copyright:" changes the tag type, rather than just creating a second, same-named tag in a different category.

Furrin_Gok said:
Actually, it does happen. All the time. forum #223741
New users don't realize that "Copyright:" changes the tag type, rather than just creating a second, same-named tag in a different category.

Where are they learning to add "copyright:" in the first place? Seems like this is a need for better education if anything...whatever help article explains it needs to do a better job.

Still not convinced it happens "all the time" or even frequently enough to worry about at all.

Also, I did a little experiment, and I COULDN'T change the tag type for "spider-man_(series)" because it says "Only mods can change the type of tags with more than 100 posts"...so I guess when a tag reaches 100 posts this becomes a non-issue anyways...they straight up won't be able to change it.

The tag alias harvey_beaks_(character) -> harvey_beaks (forum #223270) has been rejected by @Rainbow_Dash.