The character "Corrin" from the game Fire Emblem can be male or female depending on the player's preference and currently there are pictures of both on the site. Should there a gendered character tag? Like corrin_(female) / corrin_(male) to differentiate the two? How is this generally handled?

Wouldn't Corrin + male describe Corrin in his "male form", as well as Corrin + female describe her "female form"?

Just two tags, one to tag if they're present and one to tag what gender is present... as already done on site.

Allow me to be more specific, instances where the only difference in a character's form is gender, isn't the same as actually possessing different forms. It's not like they're changing from hairless monkey to hairless ape, the only effect this would have is crossgender can't be tagged as it's not correct (assuming that both of them are officially recognized). We have gender tags to specify gender and character tags to specify character, further specifying a character by their gender is unnecessary.

The fans just use F!Corrin and M!Corrin the same way as Robin and Kana... regardless of that the game does treat them as separate and they do have differing appearances.

If this is a good, official compare & contrast, then there is no difference other than what defaults by gender. As in, you could crossgender the male to look like the female, and vice versa...

Names are TWYK, but they don't imply gender. And since their name is just Corrin, that should be what is tagged, and not fan variants since it's official. The player even gets to choose their gender, meaning there is only the singular entity, Corrin, that is not male or female (or both, but not individual; Schrödinger's cat argument) until depicted.

Siral_Exan said:
Wouldn't Corrin + male describe Corrin in his "male form", as well as Corrin + female describe her "female form"?

Only in solo images.

Allow me to be more specific, instances where the only difference in a character's form is gender, isn't the same as actually possessing different forms.

That's not the only difference, though. There are cases like Shovel Knight's Enchantress / Enchanter where the genders have radically different appearances beyond merely body curvature, face, or hairstyle.

In any case, the male and female form of a character is at least as different as a brother and sister designed to look similar - a possibly obscure example of the latter being Stahn and Lilith Aileron from Tales of Destiny.

FibS said:
Only in solo images.

That's not the only difference, though. There are cases like Shovel Knight's Enchantress / Enchanter where the genders have radically different appearances beyond merely body curvature, face, or hairstyle.

In any case, the male and female form of a character is at least as different as a brother and sister designed to look similar - a possibly obscure example of the latter being Stahn and Lilith Aileron from Tales of Destiny.

That argument, that they are meant to look similar, is TWYK. They need to be different.

Siral_Exan said:
That argument, that they are meant to look similar, is TWYK. They need to be different.

TWYK has consistently been allowed in cases where it is necessary. The chief example is in the identification of a character, e.g. character name tags.

Male and female Corrin are, of course, a matter of identifying a character, and therefore should fall under the allowed usage of TWYK.

I'd say they should have separate character tags for convenience. But I'm not sure which one would be best.

FibS said:
TWYK has consistently been allowed in cases where it is necessary. The chief example is in the identification of a character, e.g. character name tags.

Male and female Corrin are, of course, a matter of identifying a character, and therefore should fall under the allowed usage of TWYK.

except this is the Schrödinger's cat argument: there is no difference until shown. We don't need a clunky pair of tags that intentionally damages crossgender and accidentally damages intersex (unless you want to argue that they are also "forms" and not genders). We need to recognize that they are just not Crossgender when male or female, which doesn't damage any system.

I believe I already said that their official name is Corrin, not Male Corrin or Female Corrin (or equivalent). Are you to suggest that we remove the official name for fan names?

NotMeNotYou said:
I'd say they should have separate character tags for convenience. But I'm not sure which one would be best.

If you can't say there is a "best" ones, how about we keep the one because simplicity will solve convenience. I anticipate your answer to tagging intersex "forms", mind you.

NotMeNotYou said:
I'd say they should have separate character tags for convenience. But I'm not sure which one would be best.

To head off an incoming question, my interpretation is that different genders of the same character that are all canonical should have different character tags.

Non-canonical genderbends of a character should remain tagged with the character name and the new gender and "genderbent".

Furthermore, while I doubt this will frequently happen in practice, the name_(sex) tag or whatnot shouldn't imply a gender tag, in case the one gender is genderbent into the other one but retains identifiable traits unique only to the source gender.

(Again, Shovel Knight, Enchantress and Enchanter look very different, you would be able to tell Enchantress apart from female Enchanter.)

Siral_Exan said:
If you can't say there is a "best" ones, how about we keep the one because simplicity will solve convenience. I anticipate your answer to tagging intersex "forms", mind you.

The only thing you should anticipate from me is my reaction on a day where I am unwilling to look past your desire to tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing.

But to actually answer your concerns, it's not convenient to our users at all to use one tag for two very similar characters just because they're similar. And intersex characters will be treated as normal, as always. If it looks like it's the male one being genderbent the tags will reflect that, and vise versa.

FibS said:
To head off an incoming question, my interpretation is that different genders of the same character that are all canonical should have different character tags.

Non-canonical genderbends of a character should remain tagged with the character name and the new gender and "genderbent".

Furthermore, while I doubt this will frequently happen in practice, the name_(sex) tag or whatnot shouldn't imply a gender tag, in case the one gender is genderbent into the other one but retains identifiable traits unique only to the source gender.

(Again, Shovel Knight, Enchantress and Enchanter look very different, you would be able to tell Enchantress apart from female Enchanter.)

I agree with that, canonical characters require their own tags, even if they fill the same role in their respective universes. However, we do not imply gender tags to character named, ever. As such the final tag will be able to be used normally like any other, the only difference compared to other character tags will (may) be the suffix.

Siral_Exan said:

I believe I already said that their official name is Corrin, not Male Corrin or Female Corrin (or equivalent). Are you to suggest that we remove the official name for fan names?

You know what happens when two characters have the same name? You adjust the tag names to clarify.

Like say, the hundreds of characters named Ruby. Ignoring that a ruby is a gemstone that could appear independent of a character, their character tags still wouldn't all just be "ruby" (though I believe they all imply a disambiguation). They're tagged ruby_(rubyluvcow) and other such more specific character tags.

corrin_(male) and corrin_(female) are the same idea. They are essentially two different characters, indistinct from a brother and sister who look similar. Like Ruby, both would probably imply plain old "corrin", so you can still search for "corrin" to get both.

It's just now you have an easy, fail-safe way to search only for the one.

NotMeNotYou said:
But to actually answer your concerns, it's not convenient to our users at all to use one tag for two very similar characters just because they're similar. And intersex characters will be treated as normal, as always. If it looks like it's the male one being genderbent the tags will reflect that, and vise versa.

I hate to say this, but this is now eerily familiar to a thread involving intersexes, which is honestly concerning... But back on topic, using two tags, one to determine the character intended gender and one to list their actual gender, is not convenient. This is especially cumbersome when trying to find non-specific cross genders, all four intersexes. Unless it's intuitive to use Corrin* and Crossgender to define your search, you're only gonna get two when using, say, Corrin_(female) and three from Corrin_(male).

There are already problems and inaccuracies with fan names for intersexes/recolors/attitudes in MLP, which had to be solved by implying them to their base character. I say we not make another problem that can't be simply solved once momentum is in place.

FibS said:
You know what happens when two characters have the same name? You adjust the tag names to clarify.

Like say, the hundreds of characters named Ruby. Ignoring that a ruby is a gemstone that could appear independent of a character, their character tags still wouldn't all just be "ruby" (though I believe they all imply a disambiguation). They're tagged ruby_(rubyluvcow) and other such more specific character tags.

corrin_(male) and corrin_(female) are the same idea. They are essentially two different characters, indistinct from a brother and sister who look similar. Like Ruby, both would probably imply plain old "corrin", so you can still search for "corrin" to get both.

It's just now you have an easy, fail-safe way to search only for the one.

Wow... way to make an argument incorrect by generalization. What about all the non FE characters named Corrin, do you seriously think we'd need just two specific suffixes? You only justified a disambiguation page if this comes to fruit.

Siral_Exan said:
Wow... way to make an argument incorrect by generalization. What about all the non FE characters named Corrin, do you seriously think we'd need just two specific suffixes? You only justified a disambiguation page if this comes to fruit.

Easy adjustment.

male_corrin_(fire emblem)
female_corrin_(fire emblem)
corrin_(fire emblem)
corrin_(disambiguation)

Placing the gender outside of the parenthesis actually better establishes it as an identification of the character rather than of the series anyway.

TL;DR but we also have commander_shepard.

And only thing tagged about characters is their name. Gender is external information.

Mario69 said:
TL;DR but we also have commander_shepard.

As I see it...

Shepard has no canonical traits at all other than name. Gender, appearance, personality, story, etc. are all player-tailored to great discretion. For this reason, I don't think Shepard should be split into gendered character tags and if I was feeling particularly snotty I would question defining Shepard as a concise character at all rather than just a stand-in name to represent the player in character dialogue.

Let's not even get started on Elder Scrolls protagonists.

In contrast, Corrin, Robin, etc. are concisely-defined and clear characters in both genders.

Siral_Exan said:
I hate to say this, but this is now eerily familiar to a thread involving intersexes, which is honestly concerning... But back on topic, using two tags, one to determine the character intended gender and one to list their actual gender, is not convenient. This is especially cumbersome when trying to find non-specific cross genders, all four intersexes. Unless it's intuitive to use Corrin* and Crossgender to define your search, you're only gonna get two when using, say, Corrin_(female) and three from Corrin_(male).

Oh for the love of Sithis.

I hope you realize at some point of this thread that these are two canon characters with the same name and a similar design, not the exact same character.
The fact that they have the same name is the reason why we're trying to find a proper way to differentiate between the two with a single tag, instead of having to use something more complex.

Siral_Exan said:
There are already problems and inaccuracies with fan names for intersexes/recolors/attitudes in MLP, which had to be solved by implying them to their base character. I say we not make another problem that can't be simply solved once momentum is in place.

Your entire argument goes down the drain because they are not fan made.

NotMeNotYou said:
Oh for the love of Sithis.

I hope you realize at some point of this thread that these are two canon characters with the same name and a similar design, not the exact same character.
The fact that they have the same name is the reason why we're trying to find a proper way to differentiate between the two with a single tag, instead of having to use something more complex.

Ok, now you confused me. "A proper way to differentiate with a single tag" sounds like you want one tag, not two. Before I continue, how 'bout you specify?

Your entire argument goes down the drain because they are not fan made.

Funny, so does Fluttershy, but we aliased/implied fan-given (and implied flutterbat, on tangent) alterations to her, including an intersex. This sounds like the opposite, giving a character a unique name (tag + suffix) from their original to differ them.

The default appearances of F!Corrin and M!corrin are clearly distinct. Similar but distinct.
Not only that but, every appearance they've had, including FE Heroes, the damn phone game treats them as completely separate characters.

Their dialogue and personalities are different in game. The same is the case with F!Robin and M!Robin. They are distinct different characters. Their dragon forms are even slightly different.

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/feheroes.gamepedia.com/thumb/a/a1/Full_Attack_Corrin_%28F%29.png/300px-Full_Attack_Corrin_%28F%29.png?version=67fa0388886683f64762d2a3a4426cf6

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/feheroes.gamepedia.com/thumb/4/41/Full_Special_Corrin_%28M%29.png/300px-Full_Special_Corrin_%28M%29.png?version=ff8a519c1868a5e1a5c799f561eda845

Minimal distinction does not mean distinction isnt there in the source material

Siral_Exan said:
Ok, now you confused me. "A proper way to differentiate with a single tag" sounds like you want one tag, not two. Before I continue, how 'bout you specify?

Everything confuses you. One tag for each character, instead of your idea of using a search like "corrin <sex>".

Siral_Exan said:
Funny, so does Fluttershy, but we aliased fan-given alterations to her, including an intersex. This sounds like the opposite, giving a character a unique name (tag + suffix) from their original to differ them.

Oh, you mean like Fluttershy in her pony form and Flutterbat in her transformed form. A brilliant example of how we have a precedent to differentiate between canon characters whenever it makes sense, and how we remove any fan made versions and alias them to the closest fitting example.

NotMeNotYou said:
Everything confuses you. One tag for each character, instead of your idea of using a search like "corrin <sex>".

Oh, you mean like Fluttershy in her pony form and Flutterbat in her transformed form. A brilliant example of how we have a precedent to differentiate between canon characters whenever it makes sense, and how we remove any fan made versions and alias them to the closest fitting example.

Oh gee, and here I was expecting to be treated normally... let's remain civil.

I'm almost tempted to leave it at that, since I agree (and have been), but you missed what I said with that tangent: we can keep a blanket tag (as fibs seems to have suggested) and imply such tags (so long as they do not include genders), like my stated flutterbat.

Now, I'll leave, and I'm bringing my "confused" self with me...

If we want to keep things official, we could have "Corrin_(male)" and "Corrin_(female)". Simple, distinguishes the two, and no fan terms need to be used.