Understandably. Time and again for reasons beyond any level of comprehension the *Trans* Tag and related attempts to use it have been shot down or made an invalid tag. As it sits right now.

On the (Misguided) grounds that under TWYS it is impossible to definably tag a character as trans.

Considering that we already have had a 7 month long 40+ page debacle on the nature of a tag change that literally led to nothing changing at all. Im not going to be making another thread about changing the tags. Even though they should be.

Instead Im going to make a case for the obvious incorrectness in a situation that has been manufactured and is not pre-existing.

And we know for a fact an absolute fact that artists, other than myself are having art taken down because the tags STILL REMAIN AS SLURS

https://e621.net/takedown/show/6422

And evidentially if the change isn't going to happen we should at least be able to tag our clearly trans characters as trans while you all continue to fetishize the trans body because *shrugs* "Those characters can't be trans theres no way of knowing so we can't use transman or transwoman as tags"

The following are images of very obviously trans men mid transition or otherwise

post #1311088 post #1204720 post #1255378 post #1171278 post #1172242 post #1178144 post #958793

post #709384 post #984626 post #172304 post #1231039

In the description of this image for example post #717610

"The character you're all confused about, Forrest, is a FtM post op transman."

The commissioner was willing to have it tagged as CBoy even to just get a decent basic level of respect out of our damn community that pretends to give a shit about its members but no. "Trans" is too difficult a concept to discuss even though its VERY OBVIOUS.

Thank you to bluedingo for bringing up the mastectomy_scars tag which on its own damn wiki page specifically refers to transgender top surgery because surprise surprise "Scars from getting breasts removed, usually in gender changing surgery." Cuntboy is a derogatory fetish term for transmen and nothing more and all of these ridiculous assertions of "but they could be born that way" literally don't matter when the alternative, by continuing to use cuntboy as a term is literally pushing more artists away because of a lack of basic respect but hey maybe thats just me.

And here's a transwoman because if you needed proof that the fact a trans character can be easily identifiable more?

post #898800 post #552405 post #530815 post #556711

People in the comments for a lot of these images are willing to call these characters by their respected gender. Without question confusion or issue.

You have a lot of them tagged with the (increasingly ridiculous) intersex tag which should be really not used as an umbrella but I digress, one problem at a time. So its obvious youre willing to concede the gender of the character is probably not standard or, not Cisgendered at the very least.

So TL:DR the excuse that you cant reliably tag trans characters as trans and therefore should not/shouldn't be able to. Is outright wrong and couched in flowery language and misdirection to make it seem less bigoted and bullshit than it is.

i agree with this well-researched post. in the face of this evidence, it would be a blinding oversight to not have such a tag.

personally, i find the intersex tag to be home to exploitative artwork of chicks with dicks without any commentary on transgenderism whatsoever. but i suppose people looking for that content will find it. la vie est drôle.

Agreed tbh. This is why im reluctant to post lovely and cute content of trans characters on here; they get associated with rly uncomfortable slurs and I'd rather just.... avoid using the tags in themselves rather than sharing this rly well made content. It's something thats been bothering me for a long while.

So TL:DR the excuse that you cant reliably tag trans characters as trans and therefore should not/shouldn't be able to. Is outright wrong and couched in flowery language and misdirection to make it seem less bigoted and bullshit than it is.

post #929177
good post op

just putting this here. i have crossdressed and find dresses very comfortable, but i'm not trans. i wouldn't be transgendered then either. i wouldn't see myself as a girl. i'd see myself as a guy in a dress. there are people who think differently, but that also serves to show you can't see if someone is trans. hell i've been mistaken for non-binary because i had a beard, but i just happened to be that difficult to tell. issue or not, i think any side could agree you can't literally see if someone is trans.

kamimatsu said:
just putting this here. i have crossdressed and find dresses very comfortable, but i'm not trans. i wouldn't be transgendered then either. i wouldn't see myself as a girl. i'd see myself as a guy in a dress. there are people who think differently, but that also serves to show you can't see if someone is trans. hell i've been mistaken for non-binary because i had a beard, but i just happened to be that difficult to tell. issue or not, i think any side could agree you can't literally see if someone is trans.

Wearing a dress isn't a particularly strong indicator. Having masectomy scars and a beard is.

By comparison, a character with a broad jaw might or might not be male - if you can also see a big honking dick between their legs, the issue is relatively much more clear.

However, I would say that outside of incredibly clear cases like that - indicators of some sort of surgery that has occurred, things do get much muddier. I feel like at the very least it would be reasonable to have a trans* tag for the most obvious cases. Certainly it can't make more of a mess of gender tags than is already in place - people gonna argue about certain pictures no matter what.

kamimatsu said:
just putting this here. i have crossdressed and find dresses very comfortable, but i'm not trans. i wouldn't be transgendered then either. i wouldn't see myself as a girl. i'd see myself as a guy in a dress. there are people who think differently, but that also serves to show you can't see if someone is trans. hell i've been mistaken for non-binary because i had a beard, but i just happened to be that difficult to tell. issue or not, i think any side could agree you can't literally see if someone is trans.

I mean youre arguing a completely different thing from what the op discusses and continuing the trend of trying to confuse and overcomplicate a simple topic to make people averse to discussing it. I mean its a nice tactic but its transparent as all hell and has no place here just like it had no place in the other topic and Im not gonna have you and your posse from before derail the thread in a random direction because of your own personal transphobia. Sorry. Not happening again.

Let me make this very very clear here and now. Its nice of you to share your personal experience as a cis person, I appreciate insight but its not asked for and its not relevant to the op which has tons of very clear evidence to support the claim. Maybe try reading it next time. Stop trying to derail every thread that makes you slightly uncomfortable. Thanks.

If a character has absolutely no indication of being trans, no.
If a character has some details like mastectomy scars, maybe. (Could be female who got very very angry at her boobies so she yanked them off with the force of a thousand suns, or they might have had boob cancer)
As for

Cuntboy is a derogatory fetish term for transmen and nothing more and all of these ridiculous assertions of "but they could be born that way"

Lolno. We are talking about anthropomorphic animals which are not real, logic does not apply(ffs a foxes anus leads to another fucking dimension). I have a cuntboy character on second life, his lore is he was born and now he is a trash civet(I think, I have too many characters on SL).

Also, just because someone disagrees with you, or you disagree with them, doesn't mean they are transphobic/homophobic/sexist/etc. We are not on Tumblr, we can use our brains here, please use them.

oh boy here we go again

A trans tag may be fine, but I disagree with your vindictive approach to it. Saying "because an artist says so" doesn't work and in many cases, yes, there is reasonable doubt whether a character is actually transgender or biologically a hermaphrodite or whatsver. If you want to place it in the description for your uploads like "This character is a post-op MtF", I'd reason that's fine and, in fact, even informative about the character.

However, we don't log personal backstories for characters with good reason. For all intents and purposes, female genitalia on male bodies should tagged for what is not what it was and visa versa. I just see a lot of potential problems with attempting to tag characters by gender using outside information. The TWYS system is far more objective than a TWYK system. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But it's better than most.

As far as "derogatory" slang used to describe those characters is probably highly insensitive, but visually accurate. What does one think when hearing or reading the word "dickgirl"? A female with a penis. It's right there in the name. I'm not educated enough to know what might be considered a "politically correct" tag, but it shouldn't matter. The only thing more important than the words themselves is the tone they're used with. Rape is a bad thing. It's serious business. But in some contexts, it can be funny, such as Louis CK's stand up bit. I'm pretty sure the words dickgirl, cuntboy, etc. weren't used to be malicious. They just evoked the right kind of visual representation to make it clear what the tags meant. Unless someone can come up with a politically correct word that isn't confusing or misleading, I think the tags are fine just the way they are. The world is never going to as cheerful and accepting as SJWs want it to be (at least, not while humans are ruling the planet).

TL;DR: I believe having a trans tag in on itself isn't unreasonable, but it needs to have clear-cut rules and guidelines. It shouldn't be something that gets tossed around like Krystal in the furry fandom. But I don't think your evidence is as concrete as you'd like to believe. Some characters are legimately born as a male but with a pussy (for any number of reasons), so they don't count as trans. Some artists don't state whether their character is a trans and a few of them don't even care. Commissioners are different, but they've always been more self-entitled than the artists who actually drew the character. That all being said, I'm not nearly well-versed enough in this whole LGBT movement, so take my opinions with a grain of salt. I'm not against the idea entirely, I'm just not willing to blindly follow anyone's argument.

Chaser said:
Lolno. We are talking about anthropomorphic animals which are not real, logic does not apply(ffs a foxes anus leads to another fucking dimension).

by this logic, we might as well rename the male/male tag to "faggots". terms don't lose their meaning, offensive or otherwise, just because they're applied to fictional characters.

by the way, am i too optimistic to expect more polite behavior from an elevated user? i can't think of any circumstances where "lolno" and "we can use our brains here, please use them" would be considered mature discourse.

fewrahuxo said:
by this logic, we might as well rename the male/male tag to "faggots". terms don't lose their meaning, offensive or otherwise, just because they're applied to fictional characters.

You took my words, and threw them right on the ground, smashing them into a million trillion billion teeny tiny bite sized pieces. _{(lil' bits.....)}
My point was that logic does not apply therefore furries can be born as Herms or cuntboys or none gender left beef.

fewrahuxo said:
by the way, am i too optimistic to expect more polite behavior from an elevated user? i can't think of any circumstances where "lolno" and "we can use our brains here, please use them" would be considered mature discourse.

I am a meme yeen, I insert humour into everything(wubba lubba dub dub). Take what I say with a gallon of vinny's mario kart salt.

your logic also allows for furries to identify as transgender and have the personalities for it. given reasonable physical evidence that identify the characters as trans, they may be tagged as such.

beyond this point, i find referencing things is less humor and more a race to the bottom of self-depreciation in an attempt to avoid saying anything of consequence or intrigue. if i say something, i would prefer it remain said, and not be forgotten as a joke.

It seems like transexual, or something along those lines, could be a useful tag to add as an addition for the subset of intersex characters that clearly have the marks of transition on them. Doesn't seem too hard to pin down some concrete things that are visually obvious for characters that are changed surgically. And that's both worthy of expecting some users to want to search specifically for, and distinctly different from ones born (in this fantasy realm where we're operating) some particular way. You can't just go overboard and make it useless by applying it to every intersex character, but it seems genuinely useful for ones like linked in OP. It doesn't obscure other things by replacing anything meaningful, but it adds information about something that we otherwise don't have any way to succinctly point out really easily. Maybe might need some level of refinement or something, but at a glance it seems really useful.

-_- oh...goody...

Yes, let's start a thread with ranting, accusations, and thinly veiled insults, that's productive and helpful and will invite constructive discussion.

Feel free to remake this thread when you're able to write it more neutral, but also please add some information for us outsiders that aren't in the know about every single nuance of the trans world.

Something that stuck out from your OP, how are those examples "good" or "clear", are there examples where the tag wouldn't be acceptable (but the character is still trans)? What would you like the scope of the tag to be? What would be outside of that scope?

It's nice that you know what you're talking about, but if we don't know what you're talking about you will be met with nothing but confusion.