Tail_fin (913) is defined as "Any type of fin found on the tail, or the tail itself. Prominent with marine creatures"

Fish_tail (383) is defined as "Finned tail common in marine life."

It SEEMS like tail_fin is meant for more sharky/dolphin tails, while fish_tail is more mermaid fins. Not entirely though. (is that a fucking lamia? jesus...)

Now, I feel like the distinction between post #1392715 and post #1399118 is a good one worth keeping... but... maybe the tags should be renamed to make them more clear?

Looking at it, it SEEMS like.. fish_tail is more mermaid-butt, while tail_fin is more 'my tail is a shark's butt'

...

fish_tail merfolk has 215 results
fish_tail -merfolk has 166 results
tail_fin merfolk has 29 results
tail_fin -merfolk has 881 results

I dunno, aliases, new tags, or just clearer wiki descriptions? tag clean up, though, for sure.

Are there any instances of mermaid tails on non-mermaids? Are there any instances of non-mermaid tails on mermaids?

Maxpizzle said:
Are there any instances of mermaid tails on non-mermaids? Are there any instances of non-mermaid tails on mermaids?

post #1325004 post #94635

I made a typo in my search numbers up there. I've fixed it though (the numbers are right, I just typed the wrong search)

Maxpizzle said:
Are there any instances of mermaid tails on non-mermaids? Are there any instances of non-mermaid tails on mermaids?

I think all mermaid-butts are attached to mermaids.

However, not all mermaids nessicarily have mermaid-butts.

for example post #1221400 or post #1399714

Or are these merfolk? I would consider them merfolk.

Also, mermaid as a tag doesn't exist, and has been replaced with merfolk. just in case this was not known

Im going to go with clearer wiki descriptions. With those two descriptions it sounds like fish_tail should imply tail_fin because tail_fin’a description is saying it is a fin on a tail and fish_tail’s description has “finned tail” in its name. I would suggest changing the wiki for fish_tail to mention thatbit is for mermaids (merfolk? Idk what they are called) and either change tail_fin’s description to mention how it if for shark-like tails or keep tail_fin how it is and then create a new tag called “shark_tail” for posts like these:
post #1294784 post #1300827 post #827638 post #1382035
If the “shark_tail” tag route is taken then its wiki should include how it is for non-shark characters that way it doesn’t get cluttered with every shark post.

SharkFetish said:
Stuffy

Your username on this post made me smile XD

Mmmm..

I kinda disagree but agree too.

The problem with Shark_tail is that dolphin tails come in a different orientation, and there are some tails like:

post #1370880 post #1351837 post #1346047 post #1283725

... okay let me think for a moment....

The thing is, there are 4 things in 2 tags.

You've got:

1a. Mermaid butts (ie, a humanoid form with an aquatic form replacing the legs. The underwater equivalent to Taur, lamia, and satyr.)
post #206947 post #1399118 post #1158913

1b. Tails that look like fish butts (dragon/dinosaur-like tails with fins/flukes/flippers/fishyflappythings on it.)
post #683423 post #1284593 post #1351837 post #1346047

and you also have:

2a. Fins made of solid flesh (like sharks, dolphins and whales have)
post #206947 post #683423 post #1284593

2b. Fins made of soft membranes webbing stuff (like betta, and most fishtankyfish)
post #1399118 post #1346047 post #91954 post #1351837

Now... the first thing (1a and 1b) is a pretty straight forward determination. very little confusion.

2a and 2b are a bit harder though, because artistic style can make it harder to tell the difference, and it'll end up mostly being opinions and what the tagger thinks..

Hmmmm...

For 2a and 2b you could make two tags one called “fleshy_fins” and one called “membranous_fins”. The wings tag does something similar with “membranous_wings”:https://e621.net/wiki/show/membranous_wings, “feathered_wings”:https://e621.net/wiki/show/feathered_wings, etc.

However, I really don’t think its nessesary to differentiate them. They sre both fins on tails so tail_fin would work, and if for some reason someone wants to look for a specific type of fin on the tail then they could add another tag like fish or shark to the search to get the type they want.

On a side note, I searched up “shark_tail”:https://e621.net/post/index/1/Shark_tail and it is tagged on 34 posts. Suprise, suprise most of them are of sharks. I still think making “fish_tail” for merfolk and then cleaning this tag up and then using it for shark tails on non shark characters wouldn’t be a had idea. Maybe im blind but I couldn’t find alot of examples of non whale/dolphin characters sirh a whale or dolphin tail to warrant a tag for itself, but if there is then maybea tag like “cetacean_tail” (can have “whale_tail” and “dolphin_tail” tail aliased to it as people would be more likely to search and tag those terms) but I digress.

SharkFetish said:
Hmmmm...

For 2a and 2b you could make two tags one called “fleshy_fins” and one called “membranous_fins”. The wings tag does something similar with “membranous_wings”:https://e621.net/wiki/show/membranous_wings, “feathered_wings”:https://e621.net/wiki/show/feathered_wings, etc.

That's not a bad idea! thank you :)

However, I really don’t think its nessesary to differentiate them. They sre both fins on tails so tail_fin would work, and if for some reason someone wants to look for a specific type of fin on the tail then they could add another tag like fish or shark to the search to get the type they want.

The problem with that is that I'm not sure you should be tagging every mermaid with 'fish' too? plus, you get every picture of ariel with flouder or some other ambient critter ;)

merfolk shark has 65 posts, merfolk fish has 365 posts, while merfolk has 1478.

Plus, some people (like me) might prefer one type of tail over another.

On a side note, I searched up “shark_tail”:https://e621.net/post/index/1/Shark_tail and it is tagged on 34 posts. Suprise, suprise most of them are of sharks. I still think making “fish_tail” for merfolk and then cleaning this tag up and then using it for shark tails on non shark characters wouldn’t be a had idea. Maybe im blind but I couldn’t find alot of examples of non whale/dolphin characters sirh a whale or dolphin tail to warrant a tag for itself, but if there is then maybea tag like “cetacean_tail” (can have “whale_tail” and “dolphin_tail” tail aliased to it as people would be more likely to search and tag those terms) but I digress.

whale_tail is a tag, but it's used for something a bit... different, hahah. as for whales.. there are about 50 posts in cetacean merfolk about half of which are cetacean mermaids, versus mermaids with whale friends.

Hmmm

Been chewing on this a bit, I think...

1a - "mermaid butt" tag is pointless. If it's a merfolk, it has a mermaid butt. For the 'weird' merfolk, like mer-eels, and mer-octopus could have some tag like unusual_mermaid

1b - I think a tag for tails-that-have-fins are a good thing to tag. I think they're neat to look at, and since not all shark/whale/dolphins/fish anthros have tails, AND some hybrid furries have sharky tails (post #1382035 for example) ... aquatic_tail? finned_tail? tail_with_fins? (I think I like finned_tail)

2 - If we accept that not every aquatic critter will be clearly one type of tail or the other, I think it's beneficial to have 'both types' tagged. and they can apply equally to all types of aquatic critters--feral, anthro, merfolk alike. (and anyoen else if needed)

1a - fleshy_fins? thick_fins? solid_fins? I'd jsut say shark tail or something, except it needs to include sharks, whiles and dolphins.. .anf all nature of fantasy fishies.
2b - membranous_fins is basically perfect.

Thoughts y'all?

SnowWolf said:
1a - "mermaid butt" tag is pointless. If it's a merfolk, it has a mermaid butt. For the 'weird' merfolk, like mer-eels, and mer-octopus could have some tag like unusual_mermaid

1b - I think a tag for tails-that-have-fins are a good thing to tag. I think they're neat to look at, and since not all shark/whale/dolphins/fish anthros have tails, AND some hybrid furries have sharky tails (post #1382035 for example) ... aquatic_tail? finned_tail? tail_with_fins? (I think I like finned_tail)

2 - If we accept that not every aquatic critter will be clearly one type of tail or the other, I think it's beneficial to have 'both types' tagged. and they can apply equally to all types of aquatic critters--feral, anthro, merfolk alike. (and anyoen else if needed)

1a - fleshy_fins? thick_fins? solid_fins? I'd jsut say shark tail or something, except it needs to include sharks, whiles and dolphins.. .anf all nature of fantasy fishies.
2b - membranous_fins is basically perfect.

Thoughts y'all?

1a - Your right a mermaid butt tag would be pointless. “Unusual_mermaid” isn’t a bad idea, if implemebting it though we would need to be clear what actually counts as a mermaid and what counts as something else. For example: mer-octopus would actually belong under the cecaelia tag.
Thanks for the linking help

1b - I like “finned_tail” as well.

2a - Finding a good tag for these types of fins is hard. Shark fins and whale fins are both made of cartilage so maybe
“cartilaginous_fins”? Alternately, (and this would be what I prefer) the fins on the tail of both sharks and whales are called caudal fins so a “caudal_fin” tag would work nicely. There is already a tag for dorsal_fin so why not?

SharkFetish said:
1a - Your right a mermaid butt tag would be pointless. “Unusual_mermaid” isn’t a bad idea, if implemebting it though we would need to be clear what actually counts as a mermaid and what counts as something else. For example: mer-octopus would actually belong under the cecaelia tag.

I've been rubbing my face in this for a few days and never found that tag c_c;

I'm not saying it's a bad tag, just drastically under used (175 cecaelia posts, 1289 octopus posts, and while not all octopuses are cecaelia, I'm seeing a lot here that SHOULD have the cecaelia tag that don't.) ... it's not linked on the merfolk wiki... and seems a bit... unintuitive.

warriors of myth wiki says "Though, it should be noted, the term 'Cecaelia' is never used within the course of the original mythology. It is a product of modern fiction featuring this race of creatures, most likely as a solution to the phrase 'Octopus Person', which some consider to be awkward, and a mouthful."

(which makes a lot of scence, because cacaelia has a distinct Greeco-roman feel to it.. which is odd for a native american creature.)

Also... it seems to me that cecaelia should imply merfolk... and marine and.. probably a few other things.

2a - Finding a good tag for these types of fins is hard. Shark fins and whale fins are both made of cartilage so maybe
“cartilaginous_fins”? Alternately, (and this would be what I prefer) the fins on the tail of both sharks and whales are called caudal fins so a “caudal_fin” tag would work nicely. There is already a tag for dorsal_fin so why not?

I thought about cartilaginous_fins, but, according to what I've read, a dolphin's flukes doesn't have bones, cartilage or muscle. Just thick connective tissues.... not sure about whales.

I don't think caudal fin applies to dolphins, but maybe it's a "close enough"?

SharkFetish said:
1a - Your right a mermaid butt tag would be pointless. “Unusual_mermaid” isn’t a bad idea, if implemebting it though we would need to be clear what actually counts as a mermaid and what counts as something else. For example: mer-octopus would actually belong under the cecaelia tag.
Thanks for the linking help

1b - I like “finned_tail” as well.

2a - Finding a good tag for these types of fins is hard. Shark fins and whale fins are both made of cartilage so maybe
“cartilaginous_fins”? Alternately, (and this would be what I prefer) the fins on the tail of both sharks and whales are called caudal fins so a “caudal_fin” tag would work nicely. There is already a tag for dorsal_fin so why not?

I think in common language, most people consider a creature that has a humanoid/anthro top and below the waist anatomy from a motile, swimming sea creature to be merfolk. For unusual takes on fantasy creatures I kinda go by "how would I describe this so that my non-nerdy mom would understand it?" and in that case calling something that has a woman's torso and jellyfish below the waist a "jellyfish mermaid" would get the point across in the least wordy way.

Similarly I think most people who are not deep into fantasy nerd-dom will both understand and be likely to call such a creature a "jellyfish mermaid". Similarly, most people will default to "octopus mermaid" to describe a cecaelia to the point a common alternative term "octomaid" is derived from "mermaid". Whether or not that's the most 100% accurate term, it's the easiest to say and understand. A more accurate term is fine to add if it exists, but it shouldn't over-rule the most common-sense/obvious/non-nerdy term.