Hi, I just wanted to check if there is anyone who knows if there is an existing tag for rope harnesses on this site. I've searched for it without any results and don't want to accidentally create a duplicate. The harness tag seems to apply for leather harnesses, not rope.

For reference, this is what a rope harness looks like:

post #407395 post #385497 post #728656

It seems ATM these posts are tagged with various combinations of the rope_bondage, bound, harness and rope tags.

If a tag doesn't already exist I'd +1 making a rope_harness tag for them.

Actually, the most accurate tag would be the currently unused shibari, the japanese "artistic" rope bondage technique.

Circeus said:
Actually, the most accurate tag would be the currently unused shibari, the japanese "artistic" rope bondage technique.

Shibari has been aliased to rope_bondage. Maybe un-alias it for use on this type of image?

DragonFox69 said:
Shibari has been aliased to rope_bondage. Maybe un-alias it for use on this type of image?

That sounds like a great idea! Should I send a PM to an admin about this or is there a form that I can use to post a request on the forum?

sdrawkcaB said:
That sounds like a great idea! Should I send a PM to an admin about this or is there a form that I can use to post a request on the forum?

You don't need to worry about that. This thread is just fine. ;)

DragonFox69 said:
You don't need to worry about that. This thread is just fine. ;)

Awesome! :-D

I wouldn't be against deleting the alias and implicating it instead. I've seen quite a few posts on here with intricate bondage that are pretty hard to search for as it is now.

parasprite said:
I wouldn't be against deleting the alias and implicating it instead. I've seen quite a few posts on here with intricate bondage that are pretty hard to search for as it is now.

Great! I've just created a wiki page for rope harness. Can you re-alias shiburi to it?

I believe "Rope harness" is more self-explanatory to the English-speaking audience than "shibari".

sdrawkcaB said:
Great! I've just created a wiki page for rope harness. Can you re-alias shiburi to it?

I believe "Rope harness" is more self-explanatory to the English-speaking audience than "shibari".

I'm not sure if it's the best place for it right now since shibari isn't always harness-like, but it should do fine now.

I've made the following changes:

• Alias: shibari -> rope_bondage (deleted)
• Alias: shibari -> rope_harness (approved)
• Implication: rope_bondage -> rope_harness (approved)

parasprite said:
I'm not sure if it's the best place for it right now since shibari isn't always harness-like, but it should do fine now.

I've made the following changes:

• Alias: shibari -> rope_bondage (deleted)
• Alias: shibari -> rope_harness (approved)
• Implication: rope_bondage -> rope_harness (approved)

Thanks!

sdrawkcaB said:
Thanks!

That's not correct replacement. Should be

shibari -> rope_bondage (western term)
kinbaku -> rope_bondage (asian term, they don't use term shibari, which just means "to tie". Instead it's a "tight binding","skill of knots")

rope_harness would be implicating harness and rope_bondage, if to follow logic of current state of business.

But shibari is _any_ kind of bondage involving _only_ ropes (nothing else used aside of fixtures and rope). The association breaks many images which involves shibari without a harness.

Ironic, from standpoint of comments above, term "shibari" was invented by english speaking people. Mostly because names of some "rope dresses" (not mistake them with harnesses) are ending on word shibari. And question "What do you do?" gets answer "Shibari" (I tie)

And.. rope dress is also shibari, but it's not bondage. The pictures in beginning of thread display rope dress. It's just a decorative wearable. How to treat that? I agree to call it rope harness, because it looks like hardware harnesses, but they aren't usable that way. There are rope harnesses which are harnesses. Not all of them are body harnesses, many wrap only hips or hips and pelvis.

parasprite said:
I wouldn't be against deleting the alias and implicating it instead. I've seen quite a few posts on here with intricate bondage that are pretty hard to search for as it is now.

You mean, like my art? :p

Also, sadly I wasn't around for years, so I couldn't add my two bits to argument before.

Swiftkill said:
rope_harness would be implicating harness

dunno about the other stuff but no for this. rope harness is not an actual harness, and it should not be tagged as such

Ruikuli said:
dunno about the other stuff but no for this. rope harness is not an actual harness, and it should not be tagged as such

There are ones which are harnesses in their use and purpose. Rope harnesses, stoppers. Even literally halters and equestrian harnesses, though you won't see them here, but there ones made from rope, a poor man's tack. Or spelunker\alpinists harnesses made from rope. Ones you think about are rope dresses.

And I added it more like a joke, because it's what is happening on the site for years. Admins just associate hyperonims with subclasses, just because they "might be", "it's easier for common folk to find it". Like BDSM <-> bondage strict link. One of most hilarious, but not obvious ones is that nipple implies breast. Not all characters have nipples on breasts, right? Well, association works 99% of time...

PS: https://e621.net/post/index/1/harness how many images there have actually a rope harness? And some have only rope dress.

Example where I get tag of "rope_harness" if I type shibari when uplaoding: https://e621.net/post/show/1842810/bound-canid-canine-female-fox-hands_behind_back-ma That picture doesn't have any harness there.

Swiftkill said:
There are ones which are harnesses in their use and purpose. Rope harnesses, stoppers. Even literally halters and equestrian harnesses, though you won't see them here, but there ones made from rope, a poor man's tack. Or spelunker\alpinists harnesses made from rope. Ones you think about are rope dresses.

And I added it more like a joke, because it's what is happening on the site for years. Admins just associate hyperonims with subclasses, just because they "might be", "it's easier for common folk to find it". Like BDSM <-> bondage strict link. One of most hilarious, but not obvious ones is that nipple implies breast. Not all characters have nipples on breasts, right? Well, association works 99% of time...

PS: https://e621.net/post/index/1/harness how many images there have actually a rope harness? And some have only rope dress.

Example where I get tag of "rope_harness" if I type shibari when uplaoding: https://e621.net/post/show/1842810/bound-canid-canine-female-fox-hands_behind_back-ma That picture doesn't have any harness there.

i do not understand at all what you are saying here

Ruikuli said:
i do not understand at all what you are saying here

Explain, if you will. Saying just that is just a blanket answer which means "I ignore you".

I answered to you because technically your statement " rope harness is not an actual harness" is both right and wrong, because two sets are intersecting. Correct statement is "Not all so called "rope harnesses" can be used as actual harnesses." Reason is that some of "rope harnesses" are "rope dresses".

Now I reiterate, if I try to search for shibari, I am restricted to images which involve harness. And yes, currently, rope_harness is harness, just what you stated being wrong. If I use shibari as tag for uploaded image which involves shibari, I'm at fault of mis-tagging the image , if there is no harness present. System adds harness and rope_harness. That's wrong, because shibari is not an equal term to rope_harness, rope_harness and rope_bondage must imply shibari.

Swiftkill said:
Admins just associate hyperonims with subclasses, just because they "might be", "it's easier for common folk to find it". Like BDSM <-> bondage strict link.

e621 is over a decade old.

While we would LOVE to say we get everything right the first time, that is hilariously wrong.

Good god, there's been, like... 50? or more members of the staff over the years. We've had thousands on thousands of forum threads in the tag alias and implications suggestions section. (over 13,500). Some of those involve multiple suggestions.

Most of us are here because we like organizing furry porn, not because we're some sort of expert kinksters who can give you a documented history of BDSM during our lunch break. Honestly.

we fuck up sometimes.

That's why we generally TRY to bring up most of the stuff like this here. That's why we TRY to get as many people involved in the conversation as possible.

But I don't have a bdsm expert on speed dial, y'know? I can do my best research (oh man, and this stuff takes hours to really dig into and even TRY to understand. There have been times that I have poured a full time job's worth of effort into "e621" work.) And yeah, still not an expert.

and sometimes people talk like they're experts and we still get it wrong, or, well, sometimes the world just fucking changes too, y'know? The vore tags have gotten at least 2 or 3 reworks that I know of and we TRY to be comprehensive but.

we've never claimed to be perfect or to always get stuff right, y'know?

Though I've got to admit, that I always find threads that talk about "admin" as if we are a singular omnipresent being that has Always Been and Always Will Be, and Thinks One Singular Thought funny -- we're more like a group of siblings. We all ride in the same car, but there's a lot of different attitudes, opinions, emotions and reactions going on, and there's a lot of bickering that happens sometimes.

As far as bondage <-> BDSM, though. Once upon a time, "bondage" implied BDSM. So you had BDSM on all sorts of pictures where one character is tied up and clearly being raped, or is about to be tortured in a dungeon or beheaded at a guillotine or what have you. This is why "bound" was born. (or rather, was developed)

That choice came around after 2 people with a high interest in BDSM came in, argued it, then went through every single BDSM/bondage post to make sure everything was correct. It made things better. Could it be better still?

SURE! Will we change it? SURE, if you'd like to come up with something better AND go through the 43,000 bondage pictures.

One of most hilarious, but not obvious ones is that nipple implies breast. Not all characters have nipples on breasts, right? Well, association works 99% of time...

The most hilarious part of this is nipples do not imply breasts.

Nipples do not imply anything, actually.

Several things imply nipples -- like nipple piercings, and cum_on_nipples. But nipples itself doesn't imply breast.

I wondered if someone had beaten me to it, and checked in the mod log, but near as I can tell, nipple has never implied breast, at any point in the last 6 or so years.

I'll admit there's been a few things like "cum_on_nipples" implying "cum on breasts" but I think those have all been deleted for years. c_c

I won't deny that these things exist. but generally speaking... If someone points this shit out, we fix it. o_o

SnowWolf said:
The most hilarious part of this is nipples do not imply breasts.

Nipples do not imply anything, actually.

Somewhere, someone is serving a niche fetish by drawing characters with extra mammary glands located in obscure places.

Also: TIL 1 in 18 men have third nipples.

SnowWolf said:
e621 is over a decade old.

Oh, I understand that. And I remember that argument about actually. They also argued with me that "bondage" in BDSM mean being bound, not being _dependant_, _subservient_. "Bondage and domination", being subservient or dominant. Note bene, while we'd started to use "bondage" as description of restraints out of tradition, and subject may be considered being _dependant_ on his/her circumstances in that case, it's a separate semantic meaning from one used in BDSM.

About that implication that might be an old info or mix up with aimage site site which shamelessly datamined e621, I just got used to fact that it was athing, apologies. I was on e621 since 2008-2010, before even creating account or drawing something. And was really spotty around here for last six years, maybe only peeking randomly.

Even then I offered an extension to tag system, though, as I not sure how it implemented currently, so I'm not sure if that's a viable upgrade.

1.Add a feature to tag editing and uploading where user have to preview tags, right in same input form. That also removes need to re-edit and commit changes to database in case of mistyped tags or wrong\undesired tags.

2.(optional, harder to implement) Add a "relevant" relation to tags, it's like implication but weaker, is bi-directional associated but doesn't replace other tag unlike alias, and tag stays marked "relevant" for picture. So if user enters particular tag, it's direct relation to picture, but relevant tags may be added automatically unless user scratches them after seeing preview, or add them to direct ones.

3. (with relevant) Search may filter out relevant tags.

PS. Singular "admin" is the way of chat talk, a contraction of administration or administrator, an "admin" account. Technically, "admin" isn't a word, so it can mean either. Unless I made typo, I prefer to use plural "admins" for "administrators", and full word for "administration" to avoid ambiguity.

PSS. The main concern with new tag relation would be is what to do to legacy content. I daresay, leave it be until edited?

PSSS. There is some strangeness about backslash in e261 editor for forum. in this message, his\her eats away backslash, but wrong\undesired doesn't