Implicating two_tone_tail → multicolored_tail
Link to implication

Reason:

The same implication exists with https://e621.net/wiki/show/two_tone_fur and it makes sense. A two colored tail is a multicolored tail.

EDIT: The tag implication two_tone_tail -> multicolored_tail (forum #246379) has been rejected by @NotMeNotYou.

I'd +1 this -- dipstick_tail already implies this.

Still against it.
Multicolored_* was created for 'many colors', but has become useless now that we're lumping everything with more than one color into it. For example, multicolored_fur is flooded with dual-tone and there's currently no way to search for patterns that have more than two colors.

The old implications should be reverted; it's more useful to keep two-toned and multicolored separate.

Edit: And just check the posts: pretty much every character except humans and some of the toons are depicted in more than one color. Which makes this usage of multicolored worthless.

*narrows eyes*

I thought something about this felt a little weird. I know I spent a lot of time working with people in fixing the color tags... (Once upon a time, many years ago, we didn't have blue_fur and green_scales tags. We tagged things "blue" and "fur"... it was a dark and scary time that involved a LOT of work to fix. <3) ...

(note: I"m not saying "we did it better once!" or anything, just going "oh, THAT'S why this whole thing feels familiar (and slightly traumatic)" ;) )

I agree that keeping two-toned and multicolored separate would be better ... though I suppose right now you could at least search for multicolor -two-toned....

Genjar said:
Still against it.
Multicolored_* was created for 'many colors', but has become useless now that we're lumping everything with more than one color into it. For example, multicolored_fur is flooded with dual-tone and there's currently no way to search for patterns that have more than two colors.

The old implications should be reverted; it's more useful to keep two-toned and multicolored separate.

the implications are not the problem genjar, it is the definition of multicolored everywhere to mean anything that has more then single color, the word does not make a clarification of number beyond that. Even if you removed the implications 100s of people would still tag two-toned characters as multicolored

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/multi-#English

PS:
i did edit tag wikis like multicolored fur or scales in the past to denote your interest of 2 colors not qualifying for multicolored but still there are over "20 pages x 320 posts" worth of two-tone characters clearly tagged under just multicolored_fur without the two-tone_fur tag alone.

SnowWolf said:
*narrows eyes*

I thought something about this felt a little weird. I know I spent a lot of time working with people in fixing the color tags... (Once upon a time, many years ago, we didn't have blue_fur and green_scales tags. We tagged things "blue" and "fur"... it was a dark and scary time that involved a LOT of work to fix. <3)

Yes, I remember, that was around the time that I rejoined the site. You did great work on those and other tags, glad to see that you're back.

There's still a lot of work to do, but unfortunately tagging discussions have slowed down a lot lately. Some regulars seem more concerned about pedantry than functionality, which can get tiresome. I'm not sure how many admins even read this subforum these days.

I agree that keeping two-toned and multicolored separate would be better ... though I suppose right now you could at least search for multicolor -two-toned....

Yep, it's better than nothing.
But since many users don't use the two-tone* tags, trying to search for something like multicolored_fur -two-tone_fur gets poor results. Especially if you want to exclude multi-colored characters from a search. ...I used to have multicolored_* tags blacklisted (was useful for filtering out sparkledogs etc), but now there's too many false hits.

I should note that in the page of multicolored_fur tail whatever, it states that two or more colors visible counts towards this tag. As such I have been including both tags, but it would be nice if two_tone_tail would add the other tag for me.

From multicolored_fur

"If there are only two colours, also use two tone fur."

From multicolored_tail

"Used when a character has a tail with at least two different colors."

Also as to the discussion about more than two colors as a tag, many_colored would probably work for that as it implies more than two colors.

I don't think the multicolored_* dilemma can be solved as long as the word "multicolored" is used, for the reason already given. Changing the multicolored_* wikis to say "three or more distinct colors" would be a necessary first step in fixing the current implementation, of course.

many-colored_* would be the best drop-in substitution (i.e., an alias). It's awkward English, but it would produce better tagging than the current multicolored_* tags, in theory anyway. Everyone should understand that "many" can't be two. polycolored_* is technically less ambiguous and more correct than "multicolored" for the intended meaning, but most would have to overcome the learning curve for the poly- prefix, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if taggers need to be reeducated regardless.

Genjar said:
pedantry

Splitting hairs is in my wheelhouse.

Yep, it's better than nothing.
But since many users don't use the two-tone* tags, trying to search for something like multicolored_fur -two-tone_fur gets poor results. Especially if you want to exclude multi-colored characters from a search. ...I used to have multicolored_* tags blacklisted (was useful for filtering out sparkledogs etc), but now there's too many false hits.

Otherwise, you'll probably need to invent some slang phrase as a more diplomatic way of saying "eye cancer" for tagging garish and lurid eyefuck colorations.

here is a radical idea, invalidate both "multicolored" and "two-tone" color tags and replace it with something users on e621 are familiar with.

duo-colored & group-colored

...just throwing it out there...

abadbird said:
... Changing the multicolored_* wikis to say "three or more distinct colors" would be a necessary first step in fixing the current implementation, of course.

many-colored_* would be the best drop-in substitution (i.e., an alias). It's awkward English, but it would produce better tagging than the current multicolored_* tags, in theory anyway. Everyone should understand that "many" can't be two. polycolored_* is technically less ambiguous and more correct than "multicolored" for the intended meaning, but most would have to overcome the learning curve for the poly- prefix, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if taggers need to be reeducated regardless.
...

sounds great to me
polycolored_* sounds ok (but i'd prefer the hyphenated poly-colored_*)

Darou said:
here is a radical idea,
...
duo-colored & group-colored
...

:) :)

My suggestion would be
two_tone_fur alias to two-colored_fur (edit: or two-color_fur or two-colors_fur)
and two_tone_tail alias to two-colored_tail (or similar)

for
1) consistency ("color" in multicolored_fur tag)
and
2) because some taggers seem to be confusing tone with shade (shade example: dark grey being a darker-shade then light grey)

What do we mean by two_tone anyway?

two_tone_tail wiki says "Not to be used when only two shades of one color are used.",
while two_tone_fur wiki does NOT.

Meanwhile there are uploads such as post #1910923 tagged with two_tone_tail (and green_tail and white_tail).
But I say that tail is all green. (with the lighter color being #E4EFDF which i classify as a light green and colorhexa.com says is "Light grayish green")

Since "Not to be used when only two shades of one color are used." has been at two_tone_tail wiki since early 2017 with no changes,
I copied it to two_two_fur wiki. (and added example)

Bump... was gonna suggest this.

Keeping multicolored_tail separate from two_tone_tail is baffling to me. Does this mean we also have to separate other two_tone_* tags to their respective multicolored_*, or this is just tail-exclusive?

Bump.

Was gonna bring this up for the same reason why two_tone_body and its derivatives imply multicolored_body and its derivatives.

listerthesquirrel said:
...
My suggestion would be
two_tone_fur alias to two-colored_fur (edit: or two-color_fur or two-colors_fur)
and two_tone_tail alias to two-colored_tail (or similar)

for
1) consistency ("color" in multicolored_fur tag)
and
2) because some taggers seem to be confusing tone with shade (shade example: dark grey being a darker-shade then light grey)

(sorry for my wording about "confusing tone with shade" ... i should have checked dictionary ... see below)

At some point (i've been procrastinating on bringing this up)
I starting thinking that e621's wiki definition of tone
(example: wiki two tone fur says "...fur with two distinct colors. Not to be used when only two shades of one color are used. ..."

doesn't match dictionary definitions of tone.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tone says
"7a(1) : color quality or value
(2) : a tint or shade of color
..."

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/tone says
"7. variable noun
A tone is one of the lighter, darker, or brighter shades of the same colour.
..."

(wording at dictionary.com is disappointing)

(i realize Wikipedia isn't a dictionary, but including anyway)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone#Color-related
"* Tone, mix of tint and shade, in painting and color theory

• Tone, the lightness or brightness (as well as darkness) of a colour

..."

I agree that something needs to be done about these. Having two-tone imply multicolored doesn’t make any sense since tone and color aren’t interchangeable terms.

Something i've been wondering about...

does color of tail fur count towards two_tone_fur and multicolored_fur ?

example: does a character with a blue tail fur, and with grey_fur on rest of body get tagged with two_tone_fur ?

Asking because the e621 wiki pages I've looked at don't seem to say.

I've been treating tail color similar to hair color and have considered COLOR_fur tags to be only for the fur of the main body.

(Wondering if should start a new thread, or just add to this thread.)

issue #1: wiki pages such as multicolored ears say :
"multi_tone_ears - more than two distinct colors.
multicolored_ears - at least two distinct colors."

ie. a problem is two different definitions of multi:
"more than two " = 3 or more.
"at least two" = 2 or more.

Since multicolored fur is a tag:
perhaps 3-or-more color tags could start with
"polycolored" (or poly-colored) ... example polycolored_fur.

Poly because
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphase_system "Polyphase systems have three or more energized electrical conductors "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_birth "polyzygotic (for three or more siblings)"
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/polymastism "having more than two mammæ, or breasts."
etc.

if people object to poly* tags (for three or more):
an alternative could be three-or-more* tags: example three-or-more_colored_fur (or 3-or-more_colored_fur).

***

issue #2: would still like to change from two_tone_* tags
(for example) from two_tone_fur TO two-colored_fur or some variation (probably with "two" at start, and "color" or "colors" or "colored" in middle).

(EDIT: objecting to "tone" in these color tags (see footnote for exceptions) for reasons written in previous posts in thread...
short version: color and tone are not the same thing.
But wikis such as two_tone_fur says "... fur with two distinct colors. Not to be used when only two shades of one color are used. ...."

footnote: other tags such as halftone and screentone sound good to me because they are related to tone.)

(See above for why some poly* tags may be the way to go, and other background info)

How about (for starters):
1) two_color_fur (37 posts), two_colored_fur (3 posts), and two_tone_fur ALL alias to two-colored_fur (slightly similar to how multicolored_fur doesn't have underscore after "multi")
2) approval for polycolored_fur as a tag for 3-or-more fur-colors ("polycolored_fur" to be similar in tag-format to multicolored_fur
3) have implication of polycolored_fur -> multicolored_fur

Or does someone have a better suggestion (than "poly") for 3-or-more?

EDIT:

genjar said:
... Multicolored_* was created for 'many colors', but has become useless now that we're lumping everything with more than one color into it. ...

An alternative to part3 above would be to disambiguate multicolored_fur
(split into two-colored_fur and polycolored_fur)

Bump:
Still hoping for feedback
1) on polycolored_fur as a tag for fur with 3-or-more colors. (inspired by format of multicolored_fur tag)
2) and suggestion of aliasing two_tone_fur TO two-colored_fur (similar to how multicolored_fur doesn't have underscore before "colored")

The tag implication two_tone_tail -> multicolored_tail (forum #246379) has been rejected by @NotMeNotYou.