Exactly what it says on the tin: I was under the impression that if it's obvious somebody's doing something blatantly sexual to somebody else, it was always rated e, even if the body parts visible would otherwise be rated lower. Like if it's obvious somebody's fondling a woman's breasts and/or nipples as foreplay, for the purpose of turning her on, but the nipples are the least-safe thing we can see, I thought that ought to be rated e. But the e rating's entry under Help:Ratings doesn't actually say this. Was this never true? Has it been recently changed? Or is that entry just in need of some clarification?

Thanks in advance for any info anyone can provide on the matter.

Yes. This, and other "sensual" acts needs some clarification. I'd say it falls under questionable, but breast fondling can be seen as a form of masturbation, whether it's done by the character itself or by another person.

Depends on what you mean by 'obvious sexual behavior'.
Depictions of sex and masturbation are always explicit, even if the bits are off-screen. Sexy poses and such (even presenting, if the bits aren't visible) aren't.

As a rule of thumb, sex is defined here as any activity that can commonly lead to one of the characters climaxing. This includes acts such as fondling someone's breasts, which can result in breast/nipple orgasm aka nipplegasm. Whereas things such as accidentally or playfully grabbing someone's breasts and then letting go isn't considered explicit.

And yes, that's already listed in the e621:ratings. It says that sex/masturbation is explicit, no ifs about it.

Well, the characters in the picture I'm talking about aren't actively having sex, yet, and the actual definition of the word "masturbation" flatly says it has to be self-pleasuring, so I didn't think that pic would count under current wording of the ratings list...Does it really count rubbing others' sexual bits, around here?

jacob said:
Well, the characters in the picture I'm talking about aren't actively having sex

No, that does fit the site definition of sex, as I just explained: the character being pleasured is clearly getting off from it. It should've been locked to explicit, so I can only guess that either the rules regarding this have changed (which would be odd, I remember the committee being unanimous about it), or whoever locked it wasn't familiar with the ratings.

AFAIK, the common definition of "sex" involves the genitals (and/or anus) of at least one person. I don't think just folding a character's breasts or butt cheeks should count as explicit, even if the characters are getting pleasure. By that standard, wouldn't any BDSM-related act be considered sex, regardless of whether there's actual sexual activity? Someone could potentially be aroused and reach climax from touching any part of the body that they perceive as erogenous.

hurr_durr said:
AFAIK, the common definition of "sex" involves the genitals (and/or anus) of at least one person.

Keep in mind that the sex tag is for any sexual activity between two (or more) characters. It is a very broad tag, and -- as it mentions -- most explicit posts qualify for it. Fondling of main erogenous zones, which includes nipples and balls, is clearly sexual activity.

genjar said:
Keep in mind that the sex tag is for any sexual activity between two (or more) characters. It is a very broad tag, and -- as it mentions -- most explicit posts qualify for it. Fondling of main erogenous zones, which includes nipples and balls, is clearly sexual activity.

I think nipples/breasts are a different case from actual genitals though. Otherwise any kind of pleasurable nipple_play or breast_fondling also counts as sex. Female breasts are a secondary sex characteristic and aren't really in the same category as actual sex organs.

hurr_durr said:
I think nipples/breasts are a different case from actual genitals though. Otherwise any kind of pleasurable nipple_play or breast_fondling also counts as sex.

...which was exactly Genjar's point (Which, now that I've actually read the tag's wiki entry, I see he was right): By site tagging standard, any kind of pleasurable nipple play or breast fondling DOES count as sex. As long as it's done to somebody by somebody else, a lady/herm/gynomorph pleasuring her/hir OWN breasts/nipples is just masturbation.

jacob said:
...which was exactly Genjar's point (Which, now that I've actually read the tag's wiki entry, I see he was right): By site tagging standard, any kind of pleasurable nipple play or breast fondling DOES count as sex. As long as it's done to somebody by somebody else, a lady/herm/gynomorph pleasuring her/hir OWN breasts/nipples is just masturbation.

I don't really see that in the wiki entry though. Yes, I understand "sex" is meant to be a broadly encompassing term for sexual activity, but I think including things like breast groping would make it a less useful tag. Again, by most standards breast and nipple play is at most considered foreplay, not sex in itself.

That's why I was bringing up that breasts are not really genitals. They may be erogenous, but they're secondary sex characteristics. I'm confident in saying that for the great majority of people, and the majority of site users, "sex" does not include an act just between the hands and breasts.

hurr_durr said:
I don't really see that in the wiki entry though. Yes, I understand "sex" is meant to be a broadly encompassing term for sexual activity, but I think including things like breast groping would make it a less useful tag. Again, by most standards breast and nipple play is at most considered foreplay, not sex in itself.

If you ask hundred different people what counts as sex, you get hundred different answers.
Personally, I consider foreplay to be sex. It is activity between two (or more) people that commonly results in orgasm, and it can be enjoyed on its own: it doesn't have to lead to intercourse.

genjar said:
If you ask hundred different people what counts as sex, you get hundred different answers.
Personally, I consider foreplay to be sex. It is activity between two (or more) people that commonly results in orgasm, and it can be enjoyed on its own: it doesn't have to lead to intercourse.

Now we have to argue what "foreplay" means; as the wiki page mentions, acts like kissing and petting can be considered foreplay. It depends on the context of course, but I'd say that foreplay is separate from sex.

that's true for me foreplay, kissing or petting is similar to sex. Plus I like to watch hot adult videos like this one https://www.pornjk.com/tags/xxnx/ it is so arousing. There are so many free cool porn on every taste.

Foreplay usually would include any kind of fondling, rubbing, sucking, and licking. Any action that is done to arouse your partner and prepare them for a climax can be considered as foreplay. Many of these things overlap with what is considered sex on e621.

post #1285214 has been locked as Explicit for 3 years, yet it's one of the least explicit breast_grab pictures I've seen. The majority of topless breast_grab or breast_fondling posts that don't have other sexual contact are rated Questionable. I think at the very least, there's enough gray area that less explicit posts like above shouldn't be locked.

It's actually pathetic these have a locked rating. Like some insecure poster with the power to do so did not want to discuss it

hurr_durr said:
post #1285214 has been locked as Explicit for 3 years, yet it's one of the least explicit breast_grab pictures I've seen. The majority of topless breast_grab or breast_fondling posts that don't have other sexual contact are rated Questionable. I think at the very least, there's enough gray area that less explicit posts like above shouldn't be locked.

When a post gets tag or rating-locked, it’s probably for a good reason by a mod (i.e. stopping a tag war). Of course, the staff that locks the post may sometimes make mistakes and it is up for discussion.

For post #1285214, the reason given by @Genjar was:
"Groping bare breasts was deemed as explicit by the staff, unless that has chanced after I quit."
Now this was based on staff decision 3 years ago, and if the consensus is such then bare breast_grab of another character is considered Explicit.

Now for post #2204083, the reason given by @Millcore was:
"Staff consensous"
This consensus was either determined by a single staff’s decision or multiple staff together. As to why the difference in consensus, we may never know unless we ask them.

In my opinion, these posts are to be tagged as Explicit for the very reason it was discussed three years ago by staff. Bare breasts being grabbed by another is Explicit.

Now for the posts with clothed breasts being grabbed by another, it is still up for debate - topic #22582, forum #283357.
Also in my opinion though, such posts can either be Questionable or Explicit. If it was accidental or jokingly done, it is Questionable; if the recipient is aroused by it, it is Explicit.