Remove alias preteen -> child

Reason: Child currently covers a large age range (3-12) that includes a wide swath of varying physical characteristics. A "child" of 4 has extremely different physical characteristics from a "child" of 12. There currently is no way to specifically search for the 10-12 age range (except for the tween tag, which is currently affixed to 17 pictures, so I'm pretty sure it's not official), and yet there is a Baby, Toddler, and Teen tag, all of which cover specific age ranges with specific physical characteristics.

How have I never realized that baby and toddler are separate from the child and cub tags? I guess any images that would fall under those tags are also getting the child or related tags anyways. My blacklist is working for now, at least.

furrin_gok said:
How have I never realized that baby and toddler are separate from the child and cub tags? I guess any images that would fall under those tags are also getting the child or related tags anyways. My blacklist is working for now, at least.

They're all under the Young umbrella, along with teen

worldfox said:
They're all under the Young umbrella, along with teen

The problem is that I'm not interested in blacklisting teen.

furrin_gok said:
The problem is that I'm not interested in blacklisting teen.

So yeah, blacklisting baby, toddler, and child will cover you, for the most part, and I think cub catches all of those.

worldfox said:
Remove alias preteen -> child

...There currently is no way to specifically search for the 10-12 age...

So, do I understand it right, that you want to use: baby ≈ 0-1, toddler ≈ 1-3, child ≈ 3-10, preteen ≈ 10-12, teenager ≈ 13-19?
I'd rater like to use child ≈ 3-7, preteen ≈ 8-12 but this would mean alot of retagging.

worldfox said:
So yeah, blacklisting baby, toddler, and child will cover you, for the most part

Naah. Not really. Search for young -baby -toddler -child -teenager ≈ 112.5k posts

worldfox said:
So yeah, blacklisting baby, toddler, and child will cover you, for the most part, and I think cub catches all of those.

baby, toddler and child imply young but not cub, so that might not catch everything if cub is missing.

I think

young -teenager
cub
baby
toddler
child 

would work to block any young image unless it also has teenager (and only teenager). Additional tags under young to block images with multiple characters of differing ages (teenager child, for example). If preteen becomes a separate tag, it could also be added.

dubsthefox said:
teenager ≈ 13-19?

The wiki should probably be rewritten. The current text was put there by a member-level user who is currently permabanned.
teenager isn't supposed to cover 18-19 as it implies young. Though it seems to be an awkward tag in general as I've seen it applied just because a character's stated age is 18-19 and I don't think that's going to go away.

furrin_gok said:
separate from the child and cub tags?

Reminder that cub is supposed to be a separation of animal-based young posts (all the way to the upper limits of young) from human-based, and not an age category in itself.

dubsthefox said:
So, do I understand it right, that you want to use: baby ≈ 0-1, toddler ≈ 1-3, child ≈ 3-10, preteen ≈ 10-12, teenager ≈ 13-19?
I'd rater like to use child ≈ 3-7, preteen ≈ 8-12 but this would mean alot of retagging.

Possibly, but I would categorize "Preteen" as the beginning stages of puberty and into puberty before secondary sexual characteristics fully form. While it's not unheard of for puberty to start at 8, those instances are outliers.

And yeah, I had no doubt that there would be a significant tagging effort required to amend the entire database, but simply having the option open is far better than not at all.

Naah. Not really. Search for young -baby -toddler -child -teenager ≈ 112.5k posts

A quick look, and it seems to be a lack of appropriate tagging. It looks like some users think the young tag is good enough.

magnuseffect said:
teenager isn't supposed to cover 18-19 as it implies young

I am pretty sure its based on the words: eighteen, nineteen. And the young wiki doesn't say "its only used on underage characters"

sys-yok said:
I think... would work to block any young image...

There are still a lot of untagged posts, which would slip through

magnuseffect said:
Reminder that cub is supposed to be a separation of animal-based young posts (all the way to the upper limits of young) from human-based, and not an age category in itself.

That's a bad use. People will want to be able to blacklist specific groups of young, not always a broad term.

furrin_gok said:
That's a bad use. People will want to be able to blacklist specific groups of young, not always a broad term.

That's what the age categories are supposed to be for
Underage tagging just doesn't have a whole lot of oversight

dubsthefox said:
And the young wiki doesn't say "its only used on underage characters"

young wiki:
A blanket term for a character who would appear to be underage.

As an aside:
Is there a proper way to request an un-aliasing? There's a button for requesting an aliasing, but not the other way, and I couldn't find any way to do so.

worldfox said:
As an aside:
Is there a proper way to request an un-aliasing? There's a button for requesting an aliasing, but not the other way, and I couldn't find any way to do so.

request a BUR and write:"unalias preteen -> child" without quotes.

worldfox said:
As an aside:
Is there a proper way to request an un-aliasing? There's a button for requesting an aliasing, but not the other way, and I couldn't find any way to do so.

dubsthefox said:
request a BUR and write:"unalias preteen -> child" without quotes.

Be sure to include your reason and the current forum topic ID as well (i.e., 29845), or else it will create new forum topic and separate the discussions into two.

dubsthefox said:
request a BUR and write:"unalias preteen -> child" without quotes.

Oh sweet, thanks!
Should I do that and delete this thread? Or just let this thread play out? Or Do the official one and not touch this thread?

worldfox said:
Oh sweet, thanks!
Should I do that and delete this thread? Or just let this thread play out? Or Do the official one and not touch this thread?

You cannot delete threads. Like I said, include the forum topic ID into the BUR (i.e., 29845) and it will create the suggestion here instead of a separate new thread.

magnuseffect said:
That's what the age categories are supposed to be for
Underage tagging just doesn't have a whole lot of oversight

Well I remember talk about child being for humans and humanoids only... That doesn't seem to be in the wiki history though, so maybe I'm just remembering falsely.

furrin_gok said:
Well I remember talk about child being for humans and humanoids only... That doesn't seem to be in the wiki history though, so maybe I'm just remembering falsely.

I think you were thinking about cub being solely for anthro and feral characters only, since the wiki states that "[it] should NOT be used in reference to a human, humanoid, or animal_humanoid."

thegreatwolfgang said:
You cannot delete threads. Like I said, include the forum topic ID into the BUR (i.e., 29845) and it will create the suggestion here instead of a separate new thread.

It's telling me script can't be blank?

Rather than teenager, why not use adolescent? It can be used for the last stage of young, between the noticeable onset of puberty and the human equivalent of 18, but isn't tied to a particular range of years as not all characters age at the same rate as humans.

worldfox said:
It's telling me script can't be blank?

Insert unalias preteen -> child into the Script section, your reason into the Reason section, and 29845 into the Forum topic section.

The bulk update request #999 is pending approval.

remove alias preteen (0) -> child (27139)

Reason: child currently covers a large age range (3-12) that includes a wide swath of varying physical characteristics. a "child" of 4 has extremely different physical characteristics from a "child" of 12. there currently is no way to specifically search for the 10-12 age range (except for the tween tag, which is currently affixed to 17 pictures, so i'm pretty sure it's not official), and yet there is a baby, toddler, and teen tag, all of which cover specific age ranges with specific physical characteristics.

thegreatwolfgang said:
Insert unalias preteen -> child into the Script section, your reason into the Reason section, and 29845 into the Forum topic section.

Rad! Got it. Thanks for your help ^_^

I really don't like the way that these tags are based on age ranges: child = 3-12, teen = 13-19 because in practice I find it impossible to nail down what the age of a character appears to be. There's too much variance in physical development in real life and in art style.

I'd much prefer:

• Baby: A very young character, especially one newly or recently born.
• Toddler: A young character physically marked by the remaining presence of baby fat and developing the coordination to walk.
• Prepubescent: A character who shows no (or possibly minimal) visible signs of puberty.
• Pubescent: A character who's is undergoing puberty and who's body is not fully physically developed
• Young: Under 18 (includes baby+toddler+prepubescent+pubescent) and also cases when characters may look physically adult, but are specified to be underage.

I often don't feel confident tagging if a character is teen vs child and I also wouldn't know when to tag preteen vs child.

tittybitty said:
I really don't like the way that these tags are based on age ranges: child = 3-12, teen = 13-19 because in practice I find it impossible to nail down what the age of a character appears to be. There's too much variance in physical development in real life and in art style.

I'd much prefer:

• Baby: A very young character, especially one newly or recently born.
• Toddler: A young character physically marked by the remaining presence of baby fat and developing the coordination to walk.
• Prepubescent: A character who shows no (or possibly minimal) visible signs of puberty.
• Pubescent: A character who's is undergoing puberty and who's body is not fully physically developed
• Young: Under 18 (includes baby+toddler+prepubescent+pubescent) and also cases when characters may look physically adult, but are specified to be underage.

I often don't feel confident tagging if a character is teen vs child and I also wouldn't know when to tag preteen vs child.

This would be less improperly tagged, but then preteen would be well served being aliased to prepubescent. This would return some false tags but also mean that things would be properly tagged where they wouldn't be due to the new system.

furrin_gok said:
This would be less improperly tagged, but then preteen would be well served being aliased to prepubescent. This would return some false tags but also mean that things would be properly tagged where they wouldn't be due to the new system.

That makes sense to me.

tittybitty said:
Young: [...] may look physically adult, but are specified to be underage.

That would be TWYK, not TWYS.

tittybitty said:
I really don't like the way that these tags are based on age ranges: child = 3-12, teen = 13-19 because in practice I find it impossible to nail down what the age of a character appears to be. There's too much variance in physical development in real life and in art style.

I'd much prefer:

• Baby: A very young character, especially one newly or recently born.
• Toddler: A young character physically marked by the remaining presence of baby fat and developing the coordination to walk.
• Prepubescent: A character who shows no (or possibly minimal) visible signs of puberty.
• Pubescent: A character who's is undergoing puberty and who's body is not fully physically developed
• Young: Under 18 (includes baby+toddler+prepubescent+pubescent) and also cases when characters may look physically adult, but are specified to be underage.

I often don't feel confident tagging if a character is teen vs child and I also wouldn't know when to tag preteen vs child.

This would be good, yeah, but I was just trying to work within what has already been established. Trying not to rock the boat too much with my first foray into the forums.

watsit said:
That would be TWYK, not TWYS.

It could work as a lore tag, but I think a more obvious term such as underaged_(lore) works better.

furrin_gok said:
It could work as a lore tag, but I think a more obvious term such as underaged_(lore) works better.

Though given the topic at issue, I feel it would be a very over-used and hotly debated tag. Don't forget that lore tags still work per-image, and is dependent on the artist's intent for the given image. A character that is normally stated to be under 18, but a particular image they're intended to be aged-up but still happens to look youthful, shouldn't get that tag, but I can see people tagging it on anything where the character looks not-obviously-adult. Also, those kinds of lore tags are meant to be a kind of errata, for when the general TWYS tags don't reflect the character (e.g. a herm that appears to be a female would get tagged female and herm_(lore), but if they appear fully herm, they get tagged herm and not herm_(lore) since that would be redundant), so a character that looks young would be tagged young and not underaged_(lore) since that would be redundant, while underaged_(lore) would only be used if they don't look young to be tagged as it (and if they don't look young, who can say if they're intended to be underage in a given image?).

watsit said:
Though given the topic at issue, I feel it would be a very over-used and hotly debated tag.

I'd say it's irrelevant due to the need for the tagging being tied to bodytype anyway. Is there a true need for tagging characters who are externally stated to be underage but meet the criteria to be tagged as adult-bodied? (Though as an aside, what of when an adult-bodied character is in-post stated to be under 18?)

watsit said:
That would be TWYK, not TWYS.

Not if it's in the image like dialogue or a school setting.

tittybitty said:
Not if it's in the image like dialogue or a school setting.

The exact wording of dialog is considered "What is known," only the language is tagged as seen. I imagine the same would go for a school setting--for all you know, they got held back a few years. Even if they're a straight A student, doesn't really mean anything.