The bulk update request #2053 is pending approval.

create implication mushroom_cloud (131) -> explosion (2761)
create alias nuclear_explosion (9) -> mushroom_cloud (131)
remove implication mushroom_cloud (131) -> cloud (76561)

Reason: A mushroom cloud is a recognizable type of explosion (usually nuclear).
Nuclear explosions are only recognizable by the distinctive mushroom cloud, so nuclear_explosion is effectively a duplicate tag for the same concept.

Essentially, nuclear_explosion is a useless tag because we already have explosion for that. If you had a nuclear explosion that did not produce a mushroom cloud, there’s no reason to tag it as nuclear_explosion. It’s just explosion, that’s it. We don’t need tags for the source of an explosion. That’s mostly TWYK anyway, as there’s no way to know what mechanism the bomb is using just from looking at a picture.

Mushroom cloud, however, refers to a specific type of explosion caused by any powerful bomb, nuclear or otherwise. It’s a useful tag, unlike nuclear_explosion. You can recognize a mushroom cloud in an image.

Now, look through nuclear_explosion. They’re all mushroom clouds. What that indicates to me is that everyone who tried using that tag was actually looking for mushroom_cloud, but didn’t know what it was called, or couldn’t remember the name. Every single one of those posts should have been tagged mushroom_cloud instead, or else just explosion. You can’t really tell that they’re nuclear just from looking at any of them… except that they’re mushroom clouds, which are associated with nuclear explosions, but not necessarily. Essentially any explosion that’s powerful enough can generate a mushroom cloud. Hence, explosion and mushroom_cloud follow Tag What You See, while nuclear_explosion does not.

EDIT: included unimply mushroom_cloud -> cloud. While technically any visible accumulation of particles suspended in the air counts as a cloud, that’s not how we use the tag here. cloud is currently just used for, you know, regular rain clouds. Similar tags such as fart cloud, breath cloud, and dust cloud do not imply cloud, so neither should mushroom_cloud. A mushroom cloud is an explosion, not a rain cloud. From the cloud wiki:

A cloud is a visible mass of water droplets or frozen ice crystals suspended in the atmosphere above the surface of the Earth or another planetary body.

Mushroom cloud ≠ cloud.

mushroom_cloud currently also implies cloud - based on the definition of cloud being "A cloud is a visible mass of water droplets or frozen ice crystals suspended in the atmosphere above the surface of the Earth or another planetary body." this should probably be removed.

I don’t agree with aliasing nuclear_explosion to mushroom cloud. Mushroom clouds occur for any kind of large explosion, not only nuclear. In addition, there could be an instance where a nuclear explosion is happening, but you can’t see the mushroom cloud but it’s still recognizable as a nuclear explosion. Like that famous terminator scene

I think i’d be better to have it be an implication instead

faucet said:
mushroom_cloud currently also implies cloud - based on the definition of cloud being "A cloud is a visible mass of water droplets or frozen ice crystals suspended in the atmosphere above the surface of the Earth or another planetary body." this should probably be removed.

I think the terms "water droplets or frozen ice" are a bit too exact for "cloud". There are plenty of other chemicals that clouds can be made from other than H2O (Venus, for example, doesn't have plain water for its clouds). Though also, I think the definition of cloud could include tiny particles of dirt and other fine/particulate lightweight solids, since dust_clouds are a thing. Volcanic eruptions spew out a lot of dirt/ash, which are solids suspended in the atmosphere but nonetheless appear as clouds.

ireadabookonce said:
I don’t agree with aliasing nuclear_explosion to mushroom cloud. Mushroom clouds occur for any kind of large explosion, not only nuclear. In addition, there could be an instance where a nuclear explosion is happening, but you can’t see the mushroom cloud but it’s still recognizable as a nuclear explosion. Like that famous terminator scene

I think i’d be better to have it be an implication instead

Tags have to follow the Tag What You See policy. If all you see is a mushroom cloud (which is currently what all the posts under nuclear explosion are), you can’t necessarily know that it’s actually nuclear just from the image itself - you’d need outside information (or text in the image, which is considered outside information). Really, you can’t tell that any given bomb or explosion is nuclear or not, so there’s no way to tag nuclear_explosion except that most people recognize nuclear explosions as having the shape of mushroom clouds. The best thing to do with that tag is to alias it to its closest equivalent.

Also, some people may not be aware of the existence of the mushroom_cloud tag, or may not know what it’s called, so they tag nuclear_explosion instead. This will help people to find the tag they’re looking for.

I largely agree with IReadABookOnce. There should be no alias and no implication either way.

Easy to come up with examples. You could have a volcanic eruption or a sci-fi antimatter bomb making a mushroom cloud. You could have an underground nuclear test that makes no cloud of any kind. Etc.

supina said:
I largely agree with IReadABookOnce. There should be no alias and no implication either way.

Easy to come up with examples. You could have a volcanic eruption or a sci-fi antimatter bomb making a mushroom cloud. You could have an underground nuclear test that makes no cloud of any kind. Etc.

I think you’re missing the point. nuclear_explosion is a useless tag because we already have explosion for that. If you had a nuclear explosion that did not produce a mushroom cloud, there’s no reason to tag it as nuclear_explosion. It’s just explosion, that’s it. We don’t need tags for the source of an explosion. That’s mostly TWYK anyway, as there’s no way to know what mechanism the bomb is using just from looking at a picture.

Mushroom cloud, however, refers to a specific type of explosion caused by any powerful bomb, nuclear or otherwise. It’s a useful tag, unlike nuclear_explosion. You can recognize a mushroom cloud in an image.

Now, look through nuclear_explosion. They’re all mushroom clouds. What that indicates to me is that everyone who tried using that tag was actually looking for mushroom_cloud, but didn’t know what it was called, or couldn’t remember the name. Every single one of those posts should have been tagged mushroom_cloud instead, or else just explosion. You can’t really tell that they’re nuclear just from looking at any of them… except that they’re mushroom clouds, which are associated with nuclear explosions, but not necessarily.