The tag implication #43639 fisting -> penetration has been approved.

Reason: The wiki for penetration currently states:

• This does not include fist/paw/hoof/arm/etc. For this use fisting instead.

It seems quite arbitrary that the insertion of pretty much every body part counts as penetration, apart from the hand. I think this distinction is serves no purpose and we'd be better off without it, allowing us to use tags such as male_penetrating_female along with it.

This wouldn't be the first time the wiki definition has been changed because oral penetration was once excluded by the wiki definition until the creation of the oral_penetration tag.

I tried searching to see why this is the case and only found threads of people also seemingly confused by this decision:

topic #20042
topic #26416
topic #29231

EDIT: The tag implication fisting -> penetration (forum #329804) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The problem with fisting is drawing the line where it actually starts, the wiki currently states "anything past the wrist" should be considered fisting.
Anything less than that or "only part of the hand is inserted" is considered as fingering, so it really depends on whether or not you would consider fingering as penetration as well.

In addition, you have to consider anal_fisting, vaginal_fisting, and especially that of oral_fisting, since all of them would be implied to fisting.

thegreatwolfgang said:
... so it really depends on whether or not you would consider fingering as penetration as well.

I would, but only in some circumstances, which means a implication wouldn't work. abadbird gives a good example in topic #20042

abadbird said:
The implication wouldn't work because some fingering is internal while some is external.

post #1430467 internal (penetration)

post #1431111 external (not penetration)

Fisting, however, always requires the insertion (penetration) of a fist into an orifice. As long as we don't arbitrarily decide that a dildo, pencil, penis, foot, broom or car counts as penetration but fists don't, the implication should be fine here since you can't have fisting without penetration.

thegreatwolfgang said:
In addition, you have to consider anal_fisting, vaginal_fisting, and especially that of oral_fisting, since all of them would be implied to fisting.

I don't really see anything to consider here - they're all orifices being fisted. If fisting is penetration, anal fisting is too. I'd even make a BUR to imply them all anal_penetration, vaginal_penetration and oral_penetration if this one is successful.

Perhaps we could also distinguish between penetrative and non-penetrative fingering. I’d suggest unaliasing finger_in_pussy, finger_in_ass, etc. from their respective *_fingering tags, have them imply them instead, as well as implying the respective *_penetration tag.

scaliespe said:
Perhaps we could also distinguish between penetrative and non-penetrative fingering.

Non-penetrative fingering is called rubbing. The whole idea of the fingering tag is that it's penetrating an orifice for sexual purposes. Using a finger for other purposes than penetrating an orifice should be use another tag.
post #1431111
is actually penetrating; shallow_penetration, as the finger tip is clearly past the outer folds.

watsit said:
Non-penetrative fingering is called rubbing. The whole idea of the fingering tag is that it's penetrating an orifice for sexual purposes. Using a finger for other purposes than penetrating an orifice should be use another tag.
post #1431111
is actually penetrating; shallow_penetration, as the finger tip is clearly past the outer folds.

If that’s true, then clitoral fingering will need a name change.

Personally, I think any kind of finger-based sexual activity can be called fingering, and we can recover the finger_in_* tags for actual penetration - that will be consistent with the various penis_in_* tags already in use.

Going to bump this due to the new BUR at https://e621.net/forum_topics/32956

This again raises the question of whether or not fingering is penetration. Should these *_fingering_* tags imply the matching *_penetrating_* tag? It would probably fill in a ton of missing penetration implications if it does.

I wouldn’t be opposed to this, personally - though as I said earlier, clitoral fingering will need a name change as it isn’t penetrative.

Interestingly, that is the only fingering tag that does not currently imply fingering. Perhaps someone already had this same idea.

The tag implication fisting -> penetration (forum #329804) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.