The bulk update request #2496 is pending approval.

change category music (9229) -> meta

Reason: sound is meta, music is sound. ergo music should be meta.

It's not always sound:
post #3328790 post #3328263 post #3325457
I don't think these uses of music should count as meta since it's indicative of what's in the image, not meta information about the post.

watsit said:
It's not always sound:
post #3328790 post #3328263 post #3325457
I don't think these uses of music should count as meta since it's indicative of what's in the image, not meta information about the post.

if there is no sound it's just assumption there is music, if it's assumption I don't see how it's valid to tag music and personally think the wiki should be updated to reflect that. Also music notes are kind of its own thing, but even with assumption that there is music there is no visual identifiers there is music which still makes it valid to consider it a meta rather then visual tag.

If music is sound in a video, then shouldn't it just be tagged sound, and not music?

Watsit is correct according to the current definition and usage of the music tag, but I would be in favor of changing the tag to limit it to actual audible music. I can’t imagine any use case for a tag like “music” except for finding videos with actual music. The other concepts under the current “music” tag could be better represented by things like playing music, singing, and musical note. Notice also how none of these tags imply music, while actual audio tags like chiptune and music video do imply music.

versperus said:
if there is no sound it's just assumption there is music, if it's assumption I don't see how it's valid to tag music and personally think the wiki should be updated to reflect that.

I think it's a safe assumption when we see characters posed as if they're in the middle of using a musical instrument. Or if they have an open mouth as if talking/singing, and speech bubbles with music notes. May as well say there's no movement in post #3328263, it's just an assumption they're dancing.

watsit said:
May as well say there's no movement in post #3328263, it's just an assumption they're dancing.

^{I fucking guess}

Ok but seriously, If we are going down this path of logic, it can have VERY interesting implications for many other tags...

scaliespe said:
The other concepts under the current “music” tag could be better represented by things like playing music, singing, and musical note.

There should be an umbrella tag for a post that depicts music in still images, whether it's someone playing an instrument, singing, or something else.

watsit said:
It's not always sound:
post #3328790 post #3328263 post #3325457
I don't think these uses of music should count as meta since it's indicative of what's in the image, not meta information about the post.

IMO, I don't think those should be tagged music. I think the listed Related Tags on the wiki for music make more sense for TWYS, e.g. musical_instrument and playing_music for #2 and musical_note for #3.

Edit: I see a similar argument was made and discussed in the time I wrote my post.

watsit said:
I think it's a safe assumption when we see characters posed as if they're in the middle of using a musical instrument. Or if they have an open mouth as if talking/singing, and speech bubbles with music notes. May as well say there's no movement in post #3328263, it's just an assumption they're dancing.

I mean there isn't any moment that's why it's not tagged animation. But at least you can get a visual que that they're moving in a way that could be considered dancing, the people holding instruments can be tagged as playing_instrument (aliased to playing music?) but even those tags don't implicate music because hey, there is not sound. These tags might need to be reshuffled in general :L

Let me just point out the current wiki for music is 10 years old.

watsit said:
There should be an umbrella tag for a post that depicts music in still images, whether it's someone playing an instrument, singing, or something else.

Sure. Something like musical_performance, perhaps?

scaliespe said:
Sure. Something like musical_performance, perhaps?

Doesn't sound appropriate for something like headphones, since there's not really a performance going on.

watsit said:
Doesn't sound appropriate for something like headphones, since there's not really a performance going on.

I was thinking the umbrella tag was for live depictions of music. This is simply listening to music - should musical performance and listening to music both imply something, then?

scaliespe said:
I was thinking the umbrella tag was for live depictions of music. This is simply listening to music - should musical performance and listening to music both imply something, then?

Something that implies music is happening in a picture, whether it's being played live on instruments, sung, listened to, background noise, etc.

i have been using the music tag for chikn nuggit uploads just for the background music featured in them, so naturally i agree that music should be redefined for music used in video

but if we're keeping it how it is and we're going to use a different tag for literal music: might i recommend bgm or background_music

watsit said:
Something that implies music is happening in a picture, whether it's being played live on instruments, sung, listened to, background noise, etc.

That is a little more tricky, though I could see how it would be a useful tag. Keeping music just for audio would be in line with how sound is used specifically for audio, whereas sound effects seems to be the best non-audible version. music effects sounds weird, though, and perhaps doesn’t apply in all cases (like an instrument clearly being played, but without any visual indication of sound or music).

Maybe something like music_(depiction)?

watsit said:
It's not always sound:
post #3328790 post #3328263 post #3325457
I don't think these uses of music should count as meta since it's indicative of what's in the image, not meta information about the post.

That first one looks more like an announcer, and shouldn't have the tag.
The second has a band playing music and the third has the lady singing, so those ones seem valid to me--I think we can do with a separation though for visual music and audible music.

furrin_gok said:
That first one looks more like an announcer, and shouldn't have the tag.

There's also the guy holding the guitar like he's playing it.

furrin_gok said:
I think we can do with a separation though for visual music and audible music.

Should there also be a tag covering both visual and audible music?

watsit said:
There's also the guy holding the guitar like he's playing it.

Oh, you're right. There's also a guy with a tambourine, but it doesn't look like he's actively striking it like the guitarist is playing.

watsit said:

Should there also be a tag covering both visual and audible music?

I wouldn’t really expect a need for that. There’s probably very little overlap between the two, and most videos with music probably are just using it as background sound and likely have nothing to do with music or musical themes otherwise.

versperus said:
The bulk update request #2496 is pending approval.

change category music (9229) -> meta

Reason: sound is meta, music is sound. ergo music should be meta.

But what about post #780957, post #1024776, post #1280079?

cow_of_fire said:
But what about post #780957, post #1024776, post #1280079?

Yes there is music in all of those

scaliespe said:
Watsit is correct according to the current definition and usage of the music tag, but I would be in favor of changing the tag to limit it to actual audible music. I can’t imagine any use case for a tag like “music” except for finding videos with actual music. The other concepts under the current “music” tag could be better represented by things like playing music, singing, and musical note. Notice also how none of these tags imply music, while actual audio tags like chiptune and music video do imply music.

watsit said:
Something that implies music is happening in a picture, whether it's being played live on instruments, sung, listened to, background noise, etc.

dripen_arn said:
i have been using the music tag for chikn nuggit uploads just for the background music featured in them, so naturally i agree that music should be redefined for music used in video

but if we're keeping it how it is and we're going to use a different tag for literal music: might i recommend bgm or background_music

scaliespe said:
That is a little more tricky, though I could see how it would be a useful tag. Keeping music just for audio would be in line with how sound is used specifically for audio, whereas sound effects seems to be the best non-audible version. music effects sounds weird, though, and perhaps doesn’t apply in all cases (like an instrument clearly being played, but without any visual indication of sound or music).

Maybe something like music_(depiction)?

How about audible_music for sound-like meaning, and audible_music diegetic_music for when it's apparent that the music is coming from an instrument or machine like post #3116548? Then the current music is renamed to music_(depiction) or something, with listening_to_music, playing_music, and singing all implying it.