The bulk update request #4089 is pending approval.

change category holidays (72541) -> meta

Reason: In their earlier BUR, wat8548 did point out something that has been overlooked for quite a while.

Despite its name, the copyrights tags are for more than just copyrights. They're also for broad scale themes that are similar but can't be claimed by any one entity, like if copyrights themselves are for privately-owned franchises, then these themes are for publicly-owned "franchises". Therefore, the copyright tags are meant to cover both.

However, what wat8548 noted was that the holidays tag itself is still in the general category. As the site considers holidays to be on the same level as meme, it really should be in the meta category (as meme is) rather than in general.

Hm, in one hand, it feels weird because even though holidays ain't copyrighted, they kinda feel fitting for the category, since they are right below the important stuff like Artist name and characters.

On the other hand, changing it to meta will be in standard with the "meme" metatag, and I suppose the intent is to only move the "holiday" tag, rather than all holiday tags, the same way we don't tag all memes as metatags, is that correct?

m3g4p0n1 said:
Hm, in one hand, it feels weird because even though holidays ain't copyrighted, they kinda feel fitting for the category, since they are right below the important stuff like Artist name and characters.

On the other hand, changing it to meta will be in standard with the "meme" metatag, and I suppose the intent is to only move the "holiday" tag, rather than all holiday tags, the same way we don't tag all memes as metatags, is that correct?

That's correct. To further the comparison, specific memes are also placed in the copyright tags even though meme itself is a meta tag.

Also, many of the copyright tags that we normally associate with copyrights might actually be more accurately considered trademarks, which is a different thing than copyrights. It could be that the category could use a rename to better reflect what it handles – copyrights, trademarks, franchises, memes, holidays, and other big, overarching themes, but that's a different discussion. One step at a time.

The "general" category is for things you can see depicted in the image. The "meta" category is for things you cannot. "General" is the correct category for both all holidays and specific ones.

m3g4p0n1 said:
Hm, in one hand, it feels weird because even though holidays ain't copyrighted, they kinda feel fitting for the category, since they are right below the important stuff like Artist name and characters.

Also, why is everyone avoiding giving me a straight answer on why holidays are considered "important"?

wat8548 said:
Also, why is everyone avoiding giving me a straight answer on why holidays are considered "important"?

It's not so much that they're "important" than it is that the Copyright category is a better fit for them than the General category.

They form overarching themes and concepts that unify certain pictures in the public sphere in much the same way copyrights do for privately-owned material. In some respects, they're like collections of long established memes themed around certain days and celebrations. In this regard, calling the category "Copyright" is a bit of a misnomer.

wat8548 said:
The "general" category is for things you can see depicted in the image. The "meta" category is for things you cannot. "General" is the correct category for both all holidays and specific ones.

Also, why is everyone avoiding giving me a straight answer on why holidays are considered "important"?

Imo, a holiday isn't something you can see in the image, something you can pinpoint and say "oh that's halloween".
Holidays, in art, is as far as I can see, a theme, themes are abstract/a conjunction of stuff that makes up that theme.

What can I add to make a picture count as "christmas"?
A character in the front of a fireplace? That can be anything.
A character holding a mistletoe? That thing is usually christmas related, but there can be other non-holiday context where this thing is used(which I don't know about).
A character looking out of their window as it snows? He may just live in a cold place.

Point being, themes aren't something exactly visible, they're more like a "mood". By combining different specific things you create the mood that brings the idea of the desired holiday.
And since a "holiday" isn't a tangible specific thing you can see and pinpoint in the picture, like what's a "meme" in X picture?, it's a bit fitting for meta.

Although I think we could use a "Theme" category

An artwork composition is what creates visual context, and visual context is what brings us the notion of what is happening, where it's happening, when it's happening.
A holiday can't create a visual context, it must be brought by the visual context.

I think.

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And I guess you don't get a straight answer because there isn't a straight answer.

It's a bit of an artistic philosophical discussion.