The bulk update request #4665 is pending approval.

remove alias romantic_duo (0) -> romantic_couple (30930)
remove alias mates (0) -> romantic_couple (30930)
remove alias couple_(romantic) (0) -> romantic_couple (30930)
remove implication romantic_couple (30930) -> romantic (36123)
remove implication romantic_polycule (26) -> romantic (36123)
create implication romantic_couple_(lore) (0) -> romantic_relationship_(lore) (0)
create implication romantic_polycule_(lore) (0) -> romantic_relationship_(lore) (0)
create alias polyamory (597) -> romantic_polycule_(lore) (0)

Reason: Part 2:
category romantic_relationship_(lore) -> lore
category romantic_couple_(lore) -> lore
category romantic_polycule_(lore) -> lore
alias romantic_couple -> romantic_couple_(lore)
alias romantic_duo -> romantic_couple_(lore)
alias couple_(romantic) -> romantic_couple_(lore)
alias romantic_polycule -> romantic_polycule_(lore)

This has been brought up before on the lore tags suggestion thread but I don't think any BUR has been made for it yet. I propose an umbrella romantic_relationship_(lore) tag and the couple and polycule tags can imply it.
We already have romantic for images that show romance, so nothing would be lost imo. With TWYS, the current romantic_couple tag is basically romantic + duo anyway. The polyamory tag is essentially the same as romantic_polycule so I think that should also get aliased.
I personally would really enjoy this lore tag and would search with it frequently and I think there'd be others who would too. It's like searching for real-life couples on pornhub lol, it's just sweet to know that characters are together in their lore.

Ah shit, we can't request lore category changes? Hold on, editing

IIRC, "romantic_couple" and "romantic" describe a couple/scene that has romantic overtones (soft lighting, flowers, candles, and/or acting in a romantic fashion toward each other). That is TWYS and not lore material.

Things like canon_couple or married and the like would be suitable for lore tags, though.

watsit said:
IIRC, "romantic_couple" and "romantic" describe a couple/scene that has romantic overtones (soft lighting, flowers, candles, and/or acting in a romantic fashion toward each other). That is TWYS and not lore material.

Yes, romantic would stay a general tag. I'm just talking about romantic_couple and romantic_polycule which I believe the current TWYS scenes could still be searched for with romantic duo and romantic trio or romantic group. However there are lots of images which aren't particularly romantic but the characters are together by lore, and if my proposal is accepted those are what would get tagged with the romantic_couple_(lore) tag.

Alternatively if it's really decided that romantic_couple is indeed different enough from romantic + duo that it should stay a general tag, then I can remove that part of the BUR and we would just have romantic_relationship_(lore).

Things like canon_couple or married and the like would be suitable for lore tags, though.

So I was thinking about married_couple too but wasn't sure how it would be implemented. Unlike the twys current version of romantic_couple where romantic + duo brings up the same results, I'm not sure how to search for two characters wearing matching wedding rings, the main twys indicator of marriage. duo wedding_ring would probably catch most of them but might include stuff with just one character with a ring. I think there might have to be a general category married tag and a separate married_couple_(lore) tag.

Canon_couple (and by extension canon_x_oc) s a good one, I hadn't thought of that. I mean, there's not really any room to argue like with other lore tags since it's about characters from media franchises, they're either together in the tv show/game/whatever or they aren't and anyone familiar with the property can determine this by looking at the image. It's either an oc with a canon character or it isn't, also determinable by anyone looking at the image. It reminds me of crossover that way. It's not about what the artist says, which I thought was the point of lore tags. Maybe better for the meta category instead...? And in that case, maybe crossover should be meta too?

Hmm romantic group actually doesn't bring up as many romantic polycules as I expected. Maybe polyamory (or something, maybe there's a clearer name?) would stay as a general tag then, and imply romantic, for all the TWYS compliant romantic polycule images. Its lore counterpart would still be romantic_polycule_(lore) for all images where the artists says they are a romantic polycule, whether or not it's clear in the image.

Edit: romantic group -duo_focus helps but it's still not exactly the same

cloudpie said:
Yes, romantic would stay a general tag. I'm just talking about romantic_couple and romantic_polycule which I believe the current TWYS scenes could still be searched for with romantic duo and romantic trio or romantic group. However there are lots of images which aren't particularly romantic but the characters are together by lore, and if my proposal is accepted those are what would get tagged with the romantic_couple_(lore) tag.

romantic duo isn't really the same as romantic_couple, since the latter can include the two with additional characters in the scene. romantic_couple group. So romantic group would include a romantic duo with additional characters, a romantic trio, and a romantic 4+ group, while romantic duo would only be when the couple are by themselves.

For a lore-based "couple" tag, I wonder if there could be a better name for that. A couple doesn't need to necessarily be "romantic" to be together, so I don't think including "romantic" in the lore tags is the best option. The typical term for a general boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/whatever-else concept is "significant other" or "S.O.", though I'm not sure how to make that into a tag describing two or more visible characters.

cloudpie said:
So I was thinking about married_couple too but wasn't sure how it would be implemented.

Married_couple is implicated by husband_and_wife, so probably belongs in the family relation BUR. I'm not sure there's really a significant difference between married and married_couple (technically there could be a married trio or something, but I think they could all just be aliased to married). A TWYS married scenario would essentially just be wedding_ring, wouldn't it? A single character wearing a wedding ring is still a married character, even if you can't see their partner(s). To determine if two or more characters are married to each other would require lore info, anyway (two characters wearing rings only means they're both married, but not necessarily to each other, unless they were doing something romantic to signify being together).

cloudpie said:
Canon_couple (and by extension canon_x_oc) s a good one, I hadn't thought of that. I mean, there's not really any room to argue like with other lore tags since it's about characters from media franchises, they're either together in the tv show/game/whatever or they aren't and anyone familiar with the property can determine this by looking at the image. It's either an oc with a canon character or it isn't, also determinable by anyone looking at the image. It reminds me of crossover that way. It's not about what the artist says, which I thought was the point of lore tags. Maybe better for the meta category instead...? And in that case, maybe crossover should be meta too?

It does bring up an interesting quandary, though. Lore tags are supposed to be based on the artist's say-so for each specific image, so if the artist says "Kass (tloz) and Amali (tloz) broke up and Kass became my dom daddy, so Kass and me are a couple in this image." That would technically make Kass and Random Fursona a couple by lore for the image, and Kass and Amali are not a lore couple in the image. How would that play out with these lore tags?

watsit said:
romantic duo isn't really the same as romantic_couple, since the latter can include the two with additional characters in the scene. romantic_couple group. So romantic group would include a romantic duo with additional characters, a romantic trio, and a romantic 4+ group, while romantic duo would only be when the couple are by themselves.

For a lore-based "couple" tag, I wonder if there could be a better name for that. A couple doesn't need to necessarily be "romantic" to be together, so I don't think including "romantic" in the lore tags is the best option. The typical term for a general boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/whatever-else concept is "significant other" or "S.O.", though I'm not sure how to make that into a tag describing two or more visible characters.

Good point, I guess the TWYS versions are still necessary. I still maintain that it would be really nice to have a lore version as well that doesn't require TWYS though. Just romantic_relationship_(lore) would probably be fine, we probably don't have to differentiate between couples and poly yet. I do wonder what should be done with the polyamory tag though - as of now the its description is basically the same as what romantic_polycule seems to be going for but there's a lot of images tagged polyamory that shouldn't have it under TWYS.
As for not all "couples" being romantic relationships, I mean... sure you're right, FWBs and loveless marriages exist, but what I'm trying to make a tag for is specifically romantic relationships. So I think romantic_relationship_(lore) is a fine name for this tag. We can have more lore tags for different types of relationships if you think they'd be useful, like FWBs or whatever.

watsit said:
It does bring up an interesting quandary, though. Lore tags are supposed to be based on the artist's say-so for each specific image, so if the artist says "Kass (tloz) and Amali (tloz) broke up and Kass became my dom daddy, so Kass and me are a couple in this image." That would technically make Kass and Random Fursona a couple by lore for the image, and Kass and Amali are not a lore couple in the image. How would that play out with these lore tags?

Hmm good question. Let's say in the image Kass and the fursona are fucking and Amali is just there, watching or something. I think if canon_couple and canon_x_oc were meta tags this image would be tagged with both. The canon couple is present and an oc x canon pairing is also present.
That's if canon_couple is defined as the pair simply both being in the image together, not necessarily having intimate contact. If it were defined as requiring contact then that image would just have canon_x_oc.
If you're talking about my proposed romantic relationship lore tag(s), then it's just whatever the artist says. If the artist says kass and the fursona are in a romantic relationship in the image and amali is not part of their relationship, then it'd be romantic_couple_(lore) (or just romantic_relationship_(lore) if we don't end up differentiating between couples and poly)

I just think, as far as lore tags go, having the romantic_ prefix is unnecessary and potentially exclusive. Characters can be involved in arranged marriages or love-less marriages, where they're a couple/polycule but not romantically involved. Characters can start a relationship with heavy romance, but the romance falls away as time goes on while they stay together. Having separate romantic and non-romantic lore tags would add unnecessary complexity. The romantic_ qualifier is part of the existing tags specifically to make it better fit TWYS, which becomes unnecessary for lore tags.

Another issue is that romantic_couple doesn't necessarily mean the characters are "a couple". To fit as a TWYS tag, it simply means a couple of characters being romantic, not that they are necessarily a couple by lore/canon, which would make an alias to a lore-based couples tag cause mistags. romantic_couple should be renamed to romantic_duo, IMO.