Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions
The tag implication #52943 everyone_is_so_mean_to_me -> meme has been approved.
Reason: https://e621.net/wiki_pages/43491#:~:text=mean%20to%20me-,A%20meme,-in%20which%20a
EDIT: The tag implication everyone_is_so_mean_to_me -> meme (forum #382397) has been approved by @slyroon.
Updated by auto moderator
wait a second... why do we even have the meme tag? it functions essentially identically to the now deprecated video_games tag. its meta categorization would maybe make you think it's for meme formats and stuff but it is just everything even tangentially related to an internet meme, in its current state it seems like it really does not serve any coherent function at all.
sipothac said:
wait a second... why do we even have the meme tag? it functions essentially identically to the now deprecated video_games tag. its meta categorization would maybe make you think it's for meme formats and stuff but it is just everything even tangentially related to an internet meme, in its current state it seems like it really does not serve any coherent function at all.
Having the meme megatag is soooooo~ handy for peeps who rather not have to
add each individual meme in existence plus everyone made every month to the
blacklist if they rather not with the whole concept. Having one tag that blocks
all of 'em forever that self-update is a godsend, Dood! ◠‿◠)~★
Updated
sipothac said:
wait a second... why do we even have the meme tag? it functions essentially identically to the now deprecated video_games tag. its meta categorization would maybe make you think it's for meme formats and stuff but it is just everything even tangentially related to an internet meme, in its current state it seems like it really does not serve any coherent function at all.
I gave up trying to remove it from non-meme posts whenever somebody thinks they're funny and adds a_cat_is_fine_too or another tag that is non-applicable that adds it, because finding a four-letter tag in the mess the edit page spits out is a fucking pain when it's going to get nuked eventually anyway.
notkastar said:
Au Contraire, This Is Hands Down One of The Most Useful Tags On My Blacklist!
Having the meme megatag is soooooo~ handy for peeps who rather not have to
add each individual meme in existence and one made every month to their
blacklist if they rather not with the whole concept. Having one tag that blocks
all of 'em forever that self-update is a godsend, Dood! ◠‿◠)~★
you say that, but that'd also be true for people wanting to blacklist all video games and that wasn't enough to keep that tag around.
honestly, the meme tag is worse than video_games since the definition of what is a meme is so dang vague.
sexy clothing? that's a meme.
role reversal scenario? that's a meme.
quoted phrase? that's a meme.
popular character? that's a meme.
Japanese onomatopoeia? that's a meme.
quantum physics hypothetical? that's a meme.
entire webseries? that's a meme.
there's like 250 tags that imply the meme tag directly or indirectly.
notkastar said:
Au Contraire, This Is Hands Down One of The Most Useful Tags On My Blacklist!
Having the meme megatag is soooooo~ handy for peeps who rather not have to
add each individual meme in existence plus everyone made every month to the
blacklist if they rather not with the whole concept. Having one tag that blocks
all of 'em forever that self-update is a godsend, Dood! ◠‿◠)~★
This would also catch any instance of any meme regardless of how subtle or minor it is to the whole piece. Can you spot the meme here, and is it worth blocking the page over? How about here, about 5 seconds total of 500 seconds (8m20s) of a character that happens to be lying in a particular pose that is otherwise inconsequential, so the whole thing must go?
sipothac said:
you say that, but that'd also be true for people wanting to blacklist all video games and that wasn't enough to keep that tag around.honestly, the meme tag is worse than video_games since the definition of what is a meme is so dang vague.
sexy clothing? that's a meme.
role reversal scenario? that's a meme.
quoted phrase? that's a meme.
popular character? that's a meme.
Japanese onomatopoeia? that's a meme.
quantum physics hypothetical? that's a meme.
entire webseries? that's a meme.
there's like 250 tags that imply the meme tag directly or indirectly.
That's 250 tags I don't have to add individually, A massive plus!
and it sucks doesn't it?! Left, right, Up, Down, Inside, and out
memes are everywhere and repeated over and over and Over again.
Memes aren't restricted to a particular item, saying, Dance or scenario.
They're the best identification we have for a item, saying, Dance or scenario.
Like Hi and Low res, it's an easy-to-spot template for a joke that's being said
the same way by 1000+ peeps at once.
I don't think the solution to the problem is to kill the tag but
to better define it so we can have the best of both worlds.
Peeps don't have to look at them if they don't want to here
and things get sorted out so we don't have one big box of
ambiguity, Dood
Edit:
Killing the tag end of, will only remove the door to a TON (250+)
tags with no broad categorization or any categorization.
Like making Briefs and Boxers unalised with the broad name
of underwear. It doesn't solve the problem that's just
dumping everything out of the box to throw away the box,
because the box took up too much space, Dood.
watsit said:
This would also catch any instance of any meme regardless of how subtle or minor it is to the whole piece. Can you spot the meme here, and is it worth blocking the page over? How about here, about 5 seconds total of 500 seconds (8m20s) of a character that happens to be lying in a particular pose that is otherwise inconsequential, so the whole thing must go?
Dude that's a key part of the blacklist, I put memes there not only to block piece that are 100% memeing but
because of those small moments. Whether it's a big part or a small part, It's there, and having a blacklist
prevents me from seeing it. Whether it's with Boobs, Glasses, long_Hair, or more core topics like
Blood, Gore, Cub, Watersports, or Scat it's not the play time that bugs, It's the content in general.
And having a warning, telling me that the content exists in there, period, is amazing!
The blacklist only helps those who use it, Dood! ╹‿╹)~★
Updated
notkastar said:
Dude that's a key part of the blacklist, I put memes there not only to block piece that are 100% memeing but
because of those small moments.
Moments you would likely not have noticed, unless and until it was pointed out. In the second case, I'm not even sure if the meme even applies, given how loosely it can be interpreted (but it's such a minor thing with enough wiggle room, I don't care to put the energy into debating it). At that point, it really feels like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Or throwing the baby out with the bath water.
notkastar said:
Whether it's a big part or a small part, It's there, and having a blacklist
prevents me from seeing it. Whether it's with Boobs, Glasses, long_Hair, or more core topics like
Blood, Gore, Cub, Watersports, or Scat it's not the play time that bugs, It's the content in general.
The difference I see there is that boobs, glasses, blood, etc, are all well-defined things. Boobs are an objectively verifiable quantity. In contrast, a meme is whatever someone calls a meme, and different people have different opinions on whether something counts as a meme or not. It can also be retroactively applied to things that have existed for years before someone started calling it a meme. And there are cases here where the thing itself is so tied up in meme culture, but is not inherently a meme (e.g. jack-o'_pose is as legitimate a pose separate from meme-ing as any other, so does not implicate meme despite being popularized as one; some argue it should be a meme, some argue is shouldn't; various pre-existing yoga and stretching poses, posts that existed long before the meme arose, also get caught up under that tag having it added after the fact).
the problem is that it's a almost entirely a subjective category, something we generally try to avoid with tags, and it, therefore, is really only useful if you agree with what is arbitrarily put into that category.
end of the day I think it's safe to say that, at the very least, meme needs a _major_ clean-up; like half of the things implied to it are super dumb. I don't think there's really any good justification to have characters, movies, series, songs, etc. implied to meme. it seems borderline disrespectful that just because something someone made got popular on the internet now it's just "a meme". and stuff like lay_the_dragon seemingly just got implied because it's a slightly funny tag name.
on top of that, what remains after cleanup will probably also need a major tag split, I don't think it makes any sense to group all these totally disparate concepts under a single tag.
sipothac said:
the problem is that it's a almost entirely a subjective category
Huh? I thought it was actually super objective - if the meme has a know your meme article about it, it qualifies.
However apparently Filthy Frank actually does have a KYM article, so maybe there should be more strict guidelines than just "has a KYM article"
sipothac said:
at the very least, meme needs a _major_ clean-up; like half of the things implied to it are super dumb. I don't think there's really any good justification to have characters, movies, series, songs, etc. implied to meme
I agree, filthy frank for sure should not imply meme, and there's probably many others
The tag implication everyone_is_so_mean_to_me -> meme (forum #382397) has been approved by @slyroon.
I feel like we ought to split loss into like loss_(glyph) for posts containing {l,lı,ll,l—} or other similarly abstract depictions, and loss_(format) for when part or all of image is meant to invoke the comic explicitly or subtly.
Get pregnant is a meme now apparently too, where a character just says "get pregnant" while having sex with another character. And people are manually tagging meme on posts with that tag. Is the bar really that low? Or should we nip this in the bud?
watsit said:
Get pregnant is a meme now apparently too, where a character just says "get pregnant" while having sex with another character. And people are manually tagging meme on posts with that tag. Is the bar really that low? Or should we nip this in the bud?
burn it to the ground
EDIT: to clarify my current position is that meme itself should be stripped of its implications and invalidated and we should instead create a few meme-based alternate tags (meme_format, meme_clothing, meme_imagry, maybe a few others) with actual coherent definitions.
Updated
Should be plap plap get pregnant, an actual meme.
cloudpie said:
Should be plap plap get pregnant, an actual meme.
I don't think we should be basing meme tags on whether or not that site has an article about it. Jar Jar Binks has an entry, as does The Rising of the Shield Hero novel/manga/anime, but they're hardly classified as memes. That site's not the authority on what is and isn't a meme.
The difference between "meme" and "video games" is that there was no coherence to the video games tag is that searching or blacklisting "video games" really had no point; what's the difference between an animal character that debuted in a cartoon versus an animal character that debuted in a game? If you don't like seeing game characters, and see a pic of a character that you liked that you didn't know was from a game until someone told you, what's the big deal?
People have an actual reason to blacklist "meme"; they're the same thing repeated over and over again, that's what the definition of a meme is.
lendrimujina said:
The difference between "meme" and "video games" is that there was no coherence to the video games tag is that searching or blacklisting "video games" really had no point; what's the difference between an animal character that debuted in a cartoon versus an animal character that debuted in a game? If you don't like seeing game characters, and see a pic of a character that you liked that you didn't know was from a game until someone told you, what's the big deal?
tell me what these posts have in common post #4405990 post #2675040
lendrimujina said:
People have an actual reason to blacklist "meme"; they're the same thing repeated over and over again, that's what the definition of a meme is.
bro, I hate memes as much as the next guy. which is the reason I think it's extremely disrespectful for us to be labeling character desings, characters, songs, entire works that people made as "meme" just because it got popular.
it's also just a dogshit tag with an invalid use case. it needs to be purged and have any of its actual valid uses divvied up into actual definable, use-having tags.
sipothac said:
EDIT: to clarify my current position is that meme itself should be stripped of its implications and invalidated and we should instead create a few meme-based alternate tags (meme_format, meme_clothing, meme_imagry, maybe a few others) with actual coherent definitions.
i agree and i feel like you should've lead off with that idea: breaking up the all encompassing meme tag into separate and more definable tags. what counts as a meme on this site is pretty absured, (for goodness sake the NSA logo is tagged as a meme) and clothing memes are in an entirely different solar system from demotivational posters or dickbutt... but at the same time it also feels wrong to not acknowledge what dickbutt or demotivational posters are by now
dripen_arn said:
i agree and i feel like you should've lead off with that idea: breaking up the all encompassing meme tag into separate and more definable tags. what counts as a meme on this site is pretty absured, (for goodness sake the NSA logo is tagged as a meme) and clothing memes are in an entirely different solar system from demotivational posters or dickbutt... but at the same time it also feels wrong to not acknowledge what dickbutt or demotivational posters are by now
I've been formulating and solidifying my stance over the last few months since I came to the realization.
beyond the things I believe are currently just misattributed as meme like lay_the_dragon, I think some bits of meme are just untenable. I'm not sure if we should be tagging most characters/character designs as memes, I have some conflicting opinions on how bowsette_meme was handled that I voiced in that thread (especially when I was one of if not _the_ first user to come out against bowsette being a normal tag.
I'm still not sure where I stand on amogui and Dickbutt (and if you go back far enough, stuff like Kilroy). I think they can probably fall into like a meme_iconography tag, since they're not really treated as characters when they're used, they're essentially just imagery, kind of being in the same class as stuff like the loss glyph and the cool S.
