The bulk update request #6553 is pending approval.

Reason: This has been bugging me for a while.

Currently, SatAM related images on here get mistagged due to incorrect aliases and implications. These images, for example, are unrelated to the Sonic comics and are instead based on SatAM:

post #4474864 post #4454417 post #1861093 post #4135831

Sonic SatAM is actually a cartoon with its own canon. While the Sonic Archie comics technically predate SatAM, the Archie comics plotlines were loosely based on SatAM, and Sally and friends originate from SatAM first.

Most of these characters should just imply the main series, as they are pretty much the same between SatAM and Archie beyond differences due to the canons, Antoine in SatAM has a completely different name, as does Robotnik. So Antoine D'Coolette can remain implying the Archie comics, because the Antoine in SatAM is named Antoine Depardieu.

Nicole's Lynx form is Archie exclusive, but her computer form can be seen in both, so it should inply the overall series.

Part 2:

alias satam -> sonic_the_hedgehog_(satam)
alias sonic_satam -> sonic_the_hedgehog_(satam)
implicate sally_acorn -> sonic_the_hedgehog_(series)
implicate bunnie_rabbot -> sonic_the_hedgehog_(series)
implicate rotor_the_walrus -> sonic_the_hedgehog_(series)
implicate lupe_the_wolf -> sonic_the_hedgehog_(series)

There was actually another Sonic cartoon with different characters. "sonic_the_hedgehog_(cartoon)" may be too ambiguous as referring to the Adventures version or SatAM version.

watsit said:
There was actually another Sonic cartoon with different characters. "sonic_the_hedgehog_(cartoon)" may be too ambiguous as referring to the Adventures version or SatAM version.

Yeah, I was worried about that. I thought it might be fine since there isn't another cartoon just named "Sonic the Hedgehog", but I suppose being clearer wouldn't hurt.

Would sonic_the_hedgehog_(satam) be better?

the SatAM chatacters at this point are much more associated with the Archie comics at this point than they are with SatAM; in most peoples' minds SatAM and Archie are essentially synonymous and since the characters all lived under the Archie roof for far longer than they did the SatAM roof. despite _technically_ being wrong in spirit and function I think these implications are better.

I'm pretty sure that the only reasons these tags exist is because Sonic fans all hate at least one facet of the the franchise with a burning passion, so I'd be very wary of changing these implications.

sipothac said:
the SatAM chatacters at this point are much more associated with the Archie comics at this point than they are with SatAM; in most peoples' minds SatAM and Archie are essentially synonymous and since the characters all lived under the Archie roof for far longer than they did the SatAM roof. despite _technically_ being wrong in spirit and function I think these implications are better.

I'm pretty sure that the only reasons these tags exist is because Sonic fans all hate at least one facet of the the franchise with a burning passion, so I'd be very wary of changing these implications.

I don't think "Sonic fans will be mad" is a good reason to leave blatantly incorrect implications that make searching worse. Sonic fans are always mad. If they don't want to see Sally, they can blacklist Sally.

(This BUR also wouldn't make Sally and co. imply SatAM, just Sonic series, because they're in multiple iterations of the franchise. Sally was also in the Fleetway comics as well, even. This also isn't going to mass remove Archie from all the Sally pictures from Archie, it just means we can correct the tags on pictures of her in SatAM or Fleetway. I wouldn't be bothered by the implications if we could remove implicated tags on exception images.)

Anyways, I changed the BUR to use sonic_the_hedgehog_(satam) based on Watsit's reply.

dsco said:
Would sonic_the_hedgehog_(satam) be better?

I would say so, yes.

Bumping again

I think it's silly to move implications away from what is most associated with the characters.

dba_afish said:
I think it's silly to move implications away from what is most associated with the characters.

Because it leads to incorrect tags that cannot be removed. People can still add the tags, we're not removing the Archie tag from Archie posts. It's just that there's a good handful of posts with incorrect tags that cannot be removed currently.

Implications aren't supposed to have exceptions.

nimphia said:
Because it leads to incorrect tags that cannot be removed. People can still add the tags, we're not removing the Archie tag from Archie posts. It's just that there's a good handful of posts with incorrect tags that cannot be removed currently.

Implications aren't supposed to have exceptions.

the difference between SatAM and Archie are more or less the difference between like Puyo Puyo and Madou Monogatari, there more or less just different eras of the same thing. I don't really see a problem with having them aliased together

dba_afish said:
the difference between SatAM and Archie are more or less the difference between like Puyo Puyo and Madou Monogatari, there more or less just different eras of the same thing. I don't really see a problem with aliasing them together

They're different canons. Archie is just inspired by SatAM, they're not the same thing. They have very different characterization and plot points because Archie just took the early show bible and created its own thing from it. The characters, including Sally, also appear in the Fleetway comics which are wildly different from both Archie AND SatAM.

also Archie debuted first.

dba_afish said:
also Archie debuted first.

I said that in the original post. Archie was based on the early show bible for SatAM. The characters debuted in SatAM first and were created by DiC. But it doesn't matter because I'm only changing the implications to the overall series tag, not to SatAM.

nimphia said:
I said that in the original post. Archie was based on the early show bible for SatAM. The characters debuted in SatAM first and were created by DiC. But it doesn't matter because I'm only changing the implications to the overall series tag, not to SatAM.

what's the point of a copyright tag if nothing is implied to it?

dba_afish said:
what's the point of a series tag if nothing is implied to it?

Have you read the actual post you're replying to? There are characters implied to SatAM, characters that are distinctly named in SatAM compared to their Archie counterparts. Copyrights can be manually tagged, too, it's not like you have to add them via implication...

nimphia said:
Have you read the actual post you're replying to? There are characters implied to SatAM, characters that are distinctly named in SatAM compared to their Archie counterparts. Copyrights can be manually tagged, too, it's not like you have to add them via implication...

I just think that it's stupid to have a tag that has 2 things implicated to it. this'd be like having a separate legend_of_spyro tag and only having cynder implied to it.

when people are looking for the Archie Sonic characters they're going to be looking for the Archie Sonic characters.

dba_afish said:
I just think that it's stupid to have a tag that has 2 things implicated to it. this'd be like having a separate legend_of_spyro tag and only having cynder implied to it.

when people are looking for the Archie Sonic characters they're going to be looking for the Archie Sonic characters.

I feel like I'm running in circles here. This is so we can actually tag the exceptions that aren't Archie. Both SatAM and Fleetway. Because it's stupid to have Archie attached to posts that aren't related to Archie.

nimphia said:
I feel like I'm running in circles here. This is so we can actually tag the exceptions that aren't Archie. Both SatAM and Fleetway. Because it's stupid to have Archie attached to posts that aren't related to Archie.

but why, though? why would it make sense to remove the implication from the bulk of the Archie cast from the Archie Sonic tag?

tags are primarily meant to be useful removing almost all of the notable cast members from the Archie Sonic tag would make it less useful for almost no reason, the like, handful of actually SatAM-related content on the site.

dba_afish said:
but why, though? why would it make sense to remove the implication from the bulk of the Archie cast from the Archie Sonic tag?

tags are primarily meant to be useful removing almost all of the notable cast members from the Archie Sonic tag would make it less useful for almost no reason, the like, handful of actually SatAM-related content on the site.

Because there's no way to remove implied tags from posts. Unless you want to make a feature request to change that, this is the only way to keep these posts from having unrelated tags forcibly added.

Once again, some of these characters also appear in Fleetway... It's not just a SatAM issue.

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this though rather than turning this thread into a back and forth repeating argument.

don't know, what if we did this with mario?

like, oh, well, technically he appeared in two donkey_kong_(series) games before he made an appearance in the mario_bros. series, so he should imply that, actually.

Sally and most of the rest of the SatAM cast are Archie characters primarily, I don't think it makes sense to split hairs on this.

dba_afish said:
don't know, what if we did this with mario?

like, oh, well, technically he appeared in two donkey_kong_(series) games before he made an appearance in the mario_bros. series, so he should imply that, actually.

Sally and most of the rest of the SatAM cast are Archie characters primarily, I don't think it makes sense to split hairs on this.

Okay, come on. There's a big difference between "the main character of a massive multimedia franchise appeared in two games of another franchise first" and "is a major character in multiple canons of the same franchise". This is just silly.

It's all Sonic at the end of the day and these characters will still imply Sonic. The characters actually made for Archie will still imply Archie. Comparing this to removing the Mario implication is ridiculous.

It doesn't help that there was a massive retcon tossed into the mix, as well.